Amos Chapter 3: Bible Study by Atheists

[00:00:00] Welcome to Sacrilegious Discourse. For this is what the Sovereign Lord says. Why do you need prophets to tell people who you are and what you want? If you can justify everything that the God of the Bible has done, then you can justify any of your behavior. A lot of this mentality is trickling into what is now mainstream right-wing Christianity. I am capable of empathy greater than this God of the Bible. This is a Bible that they tell kids. This is a Bible that they tell kids. This is a Bible that they tell kids. This is a Bible that they tell kids.

[00:00:29] This is the good Lord. This is the good book. This is, he is fantasizing about murder. Mass murder. Head over to SacrilegiousDiscourse.com right now to find out how to leave us a review or support us on Patreon. Wife! Do you know what we're reading today? Well, yesterday, well no, not yesterday. We did our special episode yesterday for the patrons. Yeah. The election one. You should go listen to it. It was good. It had keys inside of it. Yeah. But two days ago, we read

[00:01:04] Amos chapter 2. Sure as fuck did. And in that chapter, God was kind of pissed. He was big mad. He was big mad. Yeah. He was mad, I think, mostly at, like, everybody. Mostly. But it started off with him, like, you know, yelling at Moab, the king of Edom, and some different people. Yeah. And then it moved into Judah and Israel. Yeah. And he's like, I'm gonna kill y'all. Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you're

[00:01:34] all, you're all sucking and you're, you're not doing good things and, and it's not gonna

[00:01:38] be good for you. It's not gonna be pretty. This whole book of this, this whole Bible has

[00:01:42] been that. Well, yeah. You just described every fucking chapter. Yeah. No, I get a little sick

[00:01:46] of saying it, honestly. It's just that God hates what people are doing and then, you know,

[00:01:52] murders people. Yep. Pretty much. That's, that's how it goes. Yep. Yep. So, yeah. So that was basically

[00:01:58] the gist of Amos chapter 2. Okay. Which means that today we're getting into Amos.

[00:02:04] Amos chapter 3. Even tomorrow it'll be 4. Mm-hmm. All right, let's do this. Okie dokie.

[00:02:18] Alrighty, let's get into this Amos chapter 3. Amos. What, why? Because I wanted to. But

[00:02:24] you didn't correct me last time. I know, I know, and you didn't give me hell after the podcast.

[00:02:28] Gave you hell? You mentioned it. You're like, you didn't even correct me. And I was like, well,

[00:02:31] I guess I gotta correct you now. Okay, that is not how I said it and that is not giving you hell.

[00:02:36] Even if it was how I said it. Um, you responded that Amos is close enough to Amos that you were not

[00:02:44] going to worry about it. It's true. And so I just assumed that you weren't, yeah, going to worry

[00:02:50] about it. Got it. And then just now you did, so I'm like a little taken aback. I'm sorry.

[00:02:54] I'm sorry. I'll try not to correct you as much in this book as other books. Okay. Because it is

[00:02:59] pretty close. It is, right? Yeah. And anyway, you keep calling him Amos. Amos? Amos? No, you

[00:03:06] weren't saying Amos. You're saying Amos. Oh, okay. So I say it wrong too. You say it wrong because

[00:03:12] you're dumb. I wonder, you know, somebody, it would be an impossible task. How many things we've said

[00:03:17] wrong in this podcast? Oh, gosh. Like mispronunciations, you know. That would, that would be embarrassing.

[00:03:25] It'd be a monumental task for someone to undertake. Yeah. And it would be an embarrassing amount. It

[00:03:29] really would. I mean. I know it's an embarrassing amount. I can't even apologize enough for how many

[00:03:35] times I have fucked up knowing that I fucked up. Me too. And that's not even people's names and places.

[00:03:42] That's just like English vocabulary. Like even before I get into. So I got, I got to, I got to go

[00:03:48] off on a little sidetrack here. So wife knows English really, really well. Hold on. Hold on.

[00:03:55] Okay. Hold on. Okay. Knows English really, really well, but knows the written word much, much, much,

[00:04:02] much better than the spoken word. No, that is true because I'm a reader first and then a writer. Yeah.

[00:04:08] And a speaker very last. So wife often understands and knows and, you know, can utilize a, a, a word and

[00:04:17] a sentence very easily, but has never actually heard it out loud. Yes. And therefore does not

[00:04:24] know how to pronounce it. Right. And oftentimes during our podcast, I'll look over at her and

[00:04:28] I'll be like, what the fuck did you just say? And literally your face says that to me because I can

[00:04:36] read it. Right. Right. It's kind of funny, but you know, one of the reasons we need to eventually go

[00:04:41] into like a video podcast, I think someday is so that people can hear you roll your eyes. But yeah,

[00:04:47] yeah. Yeah. I think, I think our physical interactions during the podcast would be

[00:04:52] entertaining to some, to some, yeah, for sure. For, I don't know, maybe four people, four people.

[00:04:58] Yeah. That might be generous, but yeah, I can name them. I know the four people. Right. All

[00:05:06] right. I'm going to read this book now. Okay. Let's do that. I'll probably say some words wrong.

[00:05:10] Yeah. Could be. I'm okay with that. I've made my peace.

[00:05:16] Hear this word, people of Israel. Okay. The word the Lord has spoken against you,

[00:05:23] as I do, against the whole family I brought up out of Egypt, you know, the whole family.

[00:05:28] Um, that I, I read in the notes, um, he's referring to the entirety of his people as one Israel,

[00:05:36] whatever, all of them together. Yeah. Yeah. And it's strings attached, you know, obviously it's

[00:05:42] been strings. Yeah. It's been strings. Yeah. Yeah. You, you only have I chosen of all the families

[00:05:49] of the earth. I mean, that's not entirely true actually, because there has been speak in the Bible

[00:05:56] in the later books that we've been reading where they're trying to, like, I think it was, uh,

[00:06:01] who was the crazy, um, prophet that was on drugs? Oh, it started with an N, right? Or no,

[00:06:08] I don't know. Was it Ezekiel? Ezekiel. Yeah. It was Ezekiel. Yeah. Ezekiel. I remember specifically

[00:06:13] they were talking about bringing in other, you know, groups of people, like not just the Israelites.

[00:06:19] They were trying to like reach out to other cultures and things like that. Yeah. I kind of remember

[00:06:24] that. I don't remember which dude it was, but I'm pretty sure Ezekiel is one of them. It might've

[00:06:28] been in a couple of the prophets books, right? Right. And so this is wrong. Like it's, it's wrong

[00:06:35] insofar as it is countered in other parts of the Bible. But this happened before those.

[00:06:41] I understand, but God is out of order, but God, it's out of order. Yes. So, but God is also

[00:06:47] supposedly all knowing, all seeing, all whatever. I'm going to push back on this one because if I

[00:06:54] told you yesterday, we don't have any butter. Yeah. And then today we have butter because

[00:07:00] you went to the store that doesn't contradict what I said yesterday. Okay. So, so, you know,

[00:07:09] a couple of centuries ago, he's like, I've only chosen y'all and y'all keep fucking up. And then

[00:07:14] several centuries later with whoever it was, he's like, eh, you know what? Let's bring in some

[00:07:19] new blood. It's not a contradiction. It's an adaptation. I hear you. I guess my, my, my problem

[00:07:27] with the whole scenario is that nothing really changed, right? Like at least when you got the

[00:07:32] new butter, you went to go get the new butter. Sure. But his fucking people are still worshiping

[00:07:37] the sheriff holes like the whole goddamn time for centuries. So like what, why, why are we bringing

[00:07:42] new people into the fold now versus then? Why is it, why is it the now any different than the,

[00:07:47] the way back? You know, it doesn't make any sense. Um, maybe he got sick of it. Just like when you

[00:07:52] can't find stuff in the fridge and I get sick of it. I'm going to try to find something new. So I'm

[00:07:57] going to reach out to these people, see if they like me and worship me correctly. Cause y'all can't

[00:08:01] find the fucking butter. I mean, how many times have you like been in the kitchen and I'm sitting on the

[00:08:07] couch doing something in the living room and you're like, where's the butter? And I'm like, seriously,

[00:08:12] it's in the fridge and you're like, I don't see it. And then I'm like, but you have to look and

[00:08:17] you're like, I did. I am. We just covered this in the last, I know. I'm still upset about it. I'm

[00:08:22] still really upset about it because then like, you're literally arguing with me that you can't

[00:08:28] see it and somehow I should care. And then I'm like, you might have to move things around.

[00:08:34] You have to use better eyes and you have to try a little bit. You have to try. And you're like,

[00:08:39] I did move a couple. I don't see it. And then like, it's, I'm just going to take the L here

[00:08:47] and, uh, and, and say, yeah, you're right. I suck. Well, here's the thing. It's that drop it

[00:08:54] though. No, no, no, no, no. It's that, what is that called where it's on purpose and competence?

[00:09:00] Uh, I, I'm sure I know what you're getting at, but I can't think of it on the spot. Yeah. I can't

[00:09:07] think of what it is either, but it's, it's something incompetence. It's basically where

[00:09:12] like, and you don't necessarily have to know ignorance. No, not ignorance. Incompetence.

[00:09:18] It's a willful incompetence. That's what I said. That's what I said, but I don't,

[00:09:23] I don't think that's quite the right term, but it's basically like, and you may not be conscious

[00:09:29] that you're doing it. So you might not be doing it on purpose, but basically, you know, that if

[00:09:35] you are just bad at something or stupid about something long enough, then eventually your

[00:09:42] partner will come in and clean up your mess or do the work for you or whatever. It is a phenomenon.

[00:09:51] No, I got it. I got it. I just, I didn't expect to be like completely chastised here at the

[00:09:56] beginning. Well, okay. You chastised me a little bit, um, during our Patreon episode. So I do not

[00:10:03] want to hear it. That was based on what we were reading and talking about. Okay. But anyways,

[00:10:07] this is about finding shit in the fridge. Yeah, I know. Okay. Nothing to do with anything. No,

[00:10:13] it does. It does because look, God is incompetent. Yeah. Right. And there it is. Okay. He's willfully

[00:10:21] incompetent. So you're, you're saying I am on the same level as a God. Oh my God. That is not what

[00:10:26] I'm saying. That is not what I'm saying at all. That's what I would take away from it. Okay. You do

[00:10:31] that. That helps you sleep better at night. Anyways, you only have, I took this such a bad phrasing.

[00:10:39] You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth. Therefore I'll punish you for all your sins.

[00:10:46] Okay. Um, sure. I chose you. So you guys are going to get it worse than anybody. Right. And it's

[00:10:54] like, could you please not choose me? Yeah. I don't. We, how many times have we said that

[00:10:57] throughout this book? Like, I don't, I don't want to be chosen. Can I, can I, can I opt out?

[00:11:02] I would love to opt out. I didn't sign anything here. So I'm just going to like go over there.

[00:11:06] I would very much like to be removed from the chat. Right. Do two walk together unless they have

[00:11:14] agreed to do so? Um, I mean, yeah, all the time. Yeah. If they're walking the same direction

[00:11:20] and a sidewalk. Have you not been to New York? Right. I mean, come on. Yeah. Um, it's not that

[00:11:25] they, well, I guess there is an unspoken agreement. Like we're both going this way. I guess they both

[00:11:31] had to choose to go in that direction. Yeah. But are they walking together or are they just walking

[00:11:35] near each other? See, that's a really good question. The phrasing is a little not specific there.

[00:11:42] Yeah. I guess just walking the same direction next to each other is not actually walking together.

[00:11:49] Right. And so they, yeah, they would have to have agreed to be together. Although, although

[00:11:58] sometimes like if you and I go out, right? Like let's say we go to the movies or something, right? Um,

[00:12:04] we have not said we're going to walk from the car to the theater together and hold hands across the

[00:12:10] parking lot. Like we never agreed. But it's an unspoken agreement still. It is an unspoken agreement,

[00:12:15] but it does that count as an agreement? I don't know. Did we, did we agree we're walking together

[00:12:23] because we have agreed to do so? I don't know. I'm probably being nitpicky. Yeah, we're nitpicking

[00:12:28] here. I don't, I just, I don't like the phrasing. Anyway, I got you. Do two walk together unless they

[00:12:33] have agreed to do so? Does a lion roar in the thicket when it has no prey? Does it growl in

[00:12:39] its den when it has caught nothing? Does a bird swoop down to a trap on the ground when no bait is

[00:12:45] there? Does a trap spring up from the ground if it has not caught anything? How about how much is

[00:12:51] the wind blowing? When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? Wait, what? Why would

[00:12:59] the people tremble with a trumpet? Because the trumpets were used for war? It's an alarm. It's like,

[00:13:03] you know, the locusts are coming, the winds are coming, the army is coming. Right. It would be like

[00:13:11] our sirens that we have now. Yes. The klaxons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So trumpet sounds, do not people

[00:13:18] tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? No, he has not. No, he has always

[00:13:27] caused the disaster. Well, in the Bible. Yeah. In the Bible. But I'm saying, no, he does not. Right. But

[00:13:32] in canon, every single disaster was his fucking fault. Right. Every single one. Sure. I blame him

[00:13:38] for everything in this fucking book. Well, he owns up to most of it. Yeah. All of it, actually. He's

[00:13:44] proud of it. He's on purpose killing people. He's basically who Trump, like, modeled himself

[00:13:50] after. Right. Like, yeah, I did it. And I'm proud of it. And you're stupid if you don't. Right. Now

[00:13:55] kiss my fucking boot. And they do. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Same people, usually. Interesting.

[00:14:04] Surely the sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants, the prophets.

[00:14:09] The lion has roared. Who will not fear? The sovereign Lord has spoken. Who can but prophecy?

[00:14:16] See? Again, he's saying that he's telling the prophets, right? Like, that's what they're saying

[00:14:23] again here. And there is so much relying on what other people tell other people. Right. About

[00:14:33] what God says. Okay. But see, here's the Christians coming in to correct you. Excuse ya. They were

[00:14:40] led by God. They were led by God. God led their hand to write down the

[00:14:46] words. What is my, what is my. Years as not to know. But. Oh my God. I, there, there, there,

[00:14:55] there's the, I, I don't accept that. You're the devil. Okay. That's fine. The devil can quote

[00:15:00] scripture too. That's great. That's great. So, so, I mean, you know, anybody that has taught

[00:15:07] scripture can, can quote scripture. That, that's pretty much a. And the devil, and the devil as well.

[00:15:12] Am I caught. Proclaim to the fortresses of Ashdod and to the fortresses of Egypt, assemble yourselves

[00:15:21] on the mountains of Samaria. See the great unrest within her and the oppression among her people.

[00:15:27] They do not know how to do right, declares the Lord, who store up in their fortresses what they

[00:15:33] have plundered and looted. Okay. Yeah, they're supposed to. They're supposed to what? Spend it real

[00:15:40] quick or melt it down. I don't know. Oh, sacrifice it maybe? Give it, give it away. Oh, I think it

[00:15:45] was sacrifice it. Okay. I, I really do. I think. So give it to the priests though. Right. Is what

[00:15:50] you're saying? Yes. Yeah. But not keep it for themselves. Okay. Yeah. All right. Therefore,

[00:15:56] this is what the sovereign Lord says. Okay. An enemy will overrun your land, pull down your pants. No,

[00:16:03] wait, pull down your strongholds and plunder your fortresses. Okay. This is what the sovereign Lord

[00:16:09] says. As a shepherd rescues from the lion's mouth, only two leg bones or a piece of an ear. So will

[00:16:18] the Israelites living in Samaria be rescued with only the head of a bed and a piece of fabric from

[00:16:24] a couch? Very specific. It's very specific. It's only the left side cushion. Right. But not the

[00:16:32] right or center cushion. Right. And not the ones in the back. I'm talking about the one you sit on,

[00:16:37] just that one. With regard to the lion, it's either two bones or a piece of an ear. Yeah. I mean,

[00:16:43] that it's not, it's not both. Right. You can't get both. No. And, but you can get one of the,

[00:16:47] no tongues. No tongues. Yeah. Definitely no tongues. The lion likes that too much apparently.

[00:16:52] And he swallowed all the buttons on your shirt. Hear this and testify against the descendants of

[00:16:57] Jacob declares the Lord, the Lord, all God almighty. Okay. Lordy, lordy, lordy,

[00:17:03] God almighty. We're going to testify against the descendants of Jacob now. Yes. Who's testifying

[00:17:07] against them? Is this the prophets that are testifying against them or the godly people

[00:17:11] that they're preaching to? Or like, how do we determine who is godly and who's not? Is it,

[00:17:17] again, apparently we're taking the word of this prophet, right? And, and if we're taking the word

[00:17:23] of the prophet, then the, the aspects of the Northern tribes where they're still worshiping

[00:17:28] what they believe to be Yahweh only in a different form is if God was with them, they would have won

[00:17:35] out and also probably has prophets there as well. If God was with them, they would have won out.

[00:17:39] They did not win out. Therefore God was not with them. Boom. Question answered. Problem solved.

[00:17:45] You could, you could argue that none of the Jewish folk has won out over time. Like there's been

[00:17:51] still here. God has been with them over the years. They are still here, but there's a lot of,

[00:17:54] there's a lot of people that are still here as far as, you know, groups of people. But we're not

[00:17:58] worried about them guys. We're talking about the Jewish people. I know. I know, but it just,

[00:18:04] it doesn't. No. It just doesn't sit well. That's all I'm saying. Okay. I don't, I don't agree.

[00:18:11] I mean, you don't have to, you're of the devil. Okay. Remember? White wife is feeling a bit

[00:18:18] ornery tonight. I think. Ornery. Ornery. Ornery. I love that you say it's a Midwest thing. It's such

[00:18:25] a Midwest thing. Oh my gosh. There's this podcast that I listened to. Um, this girl that I really

[00:18:31] like her advice about writing. Like she offers a lot of very good references, but you could tell

[00:18:38] she's from the Midwest because she cannot differentiate between her pins and pens. So

[00:18:46] like every word that has an I or an E, she says it the opposite way. Yeah. I do too.

[00:18:52] Not as much, but I do not as much as this girl. This girl does it hard. Okay. So I have a light

[00:19:00] Midwest accent and she has a hardcore Midwest accent. Hardcore. Yeah. And I feel like it's almost,

[00:19:08] it almost takes me out of being able to listen to her because it annoys me. And I, I feel like that

[00:19:15] is classist of me. I took a sociology class when I was in college. Well, you look at me like I'm

[00:19:22] weird. So I'm trying to explain to you when I was in college, I took the sociology class and I went

[00:19:26] into it with the understanding that no, there's a proper way to speak. And there's, you know,

[00:19:31] everything else is not proper. Okay. Then by the time the end of the semester, um, I, I understood

[00:19:39] understood that, Oh no, that is a very classist point of view and who much like, you know, who gets

[00:19:46] to decide which God is right. Yeah. Who gets to decide which form of language is correct. Um, usually

[00:19:53] it's the people in power with the money and they speak a certain way to differentiate themselves. And

[00:19:58] then they make fun of the poor. And also, you know, they bar them from education and then laugh at

[00:20:04] them for not having education. Like it's a very, um, just oppressive cycle. It's a, it's a class

[00:20:12] signaling. Yes. That's, that's what it is. Yes. You, when, when you speak in a certain way,

[00:20:16] you're signaling your class along with, you know, many other things that people can tell right off

[00:20:21] the bat about you. Right. And, and I'm sure that on our podcast, people judge us for the way we speak

[00:20:26] about things. Obviously the cussing takes us down a notch, which we do on purpose because,

[00:20:32] because the thing is, fuck you. If you judge me for cussing, fuck you. If you judge me for the

[00:20:40] things that, um, like if you choose to judge me because of how I'm conveying an idea versus what

[00:20:47] the idea is, fuck you. That that's that. And I mean that in the nicest way to all of our listeners.

[00:20:53] Affectionately. Yes. Affectionately. Fuck you. But you are being judgmental. You are not allowing

[00:20:58] for the idea to parse into your, you know, brain. Well, I think the problem is that there are some

[00:21:05] very, very, very elite and arrogant atheists out there. Yeah, guys, I'm talking to you or not.

[00:21:11] I mean, no, the ones I'm talking to, the ones you're talking to, you're talking, I'm talking to

[00:21:16] you. Yeah. Yeah. Um, they feel like this language takes away from the scholar that they are,

[00:21:25] the academic that they are. They are learned. They do not F bomb. They are learned and they are men

[00:21:31] of science. They are medical and technology and they are smarty smarts. But we talked about this

[00:21:36] when we first started this project, right? And the way that people talk about the Bible in general

[00:21:42] is with too much reverence, right? And it, it, it doesn't allow people to hear it in a way that

[00:21:51] is disarming, right? Like we allow people to see through the guise of the reverence of the Bible

[00:21:58] because we don't allow that reverence to come into it. Well, that, and we're not scholars or

[00:22:04] academics, which we state all the fucking time. So why would I not use F bomb? But beyond that,

[00:22:09] even without being scholars or academics, we could still read this with reverence. We could still read

[00:22:13] it with the idea that we're genuinely trying to, you know, read it with every effort to make it sound

[00:22:22] beautiful and wonderful and all these things, and then comment, you know, on the side from there. But

[00:22:27] no, the fact is that this book is used for wrong today, right now in this, in our culture,

[00:22:37] as we're speaking, right? Yeah. And, and it's time to drop this veil of, of pretending that this book

[00:22:46] has more importance and weight than it should have. Yeah. No, this book is a fucking piece of shit,

[00:22:52] just like any of the other religious texts. And I'm not going to pretend that it's not. And I am

[00:22:57] going to cuss if I want to, because fuck you. Now, that being said, we will call out ideas that are

[00:23:03] good, right? We, we do not want, we don't want to sit here and completely just Bible bash. That's

[00:23:09] not the point of the podcast. I mean, sometimes I get a little carried away, I'll admit. We do,

[00:23:13] we do. But we do also, when we come across an idea that is better than other things we read,

[00:23:19] we make a point to say so. Yes. And I think that's the important aspect of what we're doing,

[00:23:24] is that we're reading it and allowing people to see through the reverence of this book. Right.

[00:23:30] And then still admit, yes, there is some beauty. Yes, there is some poetry.

[00:23:36] It's been far and few between, but yeah. It is. But we're probably going to have to admit that more

[00:23:41] when we get to the New Testament. Sure. Than we have in the Old Testament, right? Sure.

[00:23:45] So I imagine that our, our, we're going to have to change our cadence a little bit when we get to

[00:23:50] the New Testament eventually. Yeah. I'm a little nervous about it, honestly. I think we'll be all

[00:23:54] right. No, I know. It's just like, I, I, I'm okay. Like I've been okay trashing the idea and notion

[00:24:02] of God because God is so generic, right? Like whatever. But then, you know, we're going to be

[00:24:07] dissing the Jesus and like, it's so personal to so many people. But that should be less intimidating,

[00:24:14] right? Because Jesus forgives. God kills. Well, I don't know. I've been told that, um,

[00:24:20] you know, Jesus is too woke. Well, that's, that's a whole other thing, right? You know,

[00:24:25] whatever. I'm just saying like, um, I have not yet shook off that, um, that timidness with regard to,

[00:24:37] um, just being outright insulting to Jesus, to Jesus. Yes. Really? Yes. You haven't.

[00:24:46] I haven't. Huh? Most of my, I would not have guessed that actually. You look a little

[00:24:53] flabbergasted. Well, I don't, I've never believed in the Jesus part of the whole God story.

[00:24:58] Right. But like what, and I'm, I'm not, I'm not trying to judge you here. No, I'm. But what is about,

[00:25:03] what about it makes you timid? Um, it, I'm trying to, I'm thinking on the fly here. Okay. So forgive me.

[00:25:10] No, that's, that's, but I'm, you kind of threw me for a loop here. I'm like, no, I'm aware of it,

[00:25:15] but I don't necessarily like it about myself. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, why is Jesus

[00:25:21] different from God? That's why I'm curious. Yeah. I, I don't know. I, I don't know. Is it because

[00:25:28] it was just such a, um, cultural reference that it has permeated into your, your brain that you,

[00:25:34] you, you, you view Jesus as this, uh, um, this higher than, than, than life type figure that

[00:25:41] stands for certain things. And if we cut him down, then, then we're, we're going too far.

[00:25:46] Um, I think it has more to do with, um, okay. Stay with me here for a minute. I'm going to speak

[00:25:57] slowly and haltingly because I'm trying to get thoughts out as I'm processing them. Okay. Yeah.

[00:26:03] I think that when we're talking about God in general or God of the Bible and the old Testament

[00:26:10] in particular, it feels very generic and not any one particular religion. Yes. And right. And yes,

[00:26:21] we are speaking about the Jewish people. Right. And we know that the whole time, but I still don't like

[00:26:29] feel it. Like I don't, it doesn't matter to me, not because Jewish people don't matter. I don't mean

[00:26:36] to intimate that. Um, I just don't have a reference point for it. It doesn't, it doesn't strike me.

[00:26:46] Well, the old Testament God, when, when it doesn't get talked about a lot, right? Like it's not

[00:26:50] something that's in the normal. Um, if you go to a church, it's not in that normal, you know,

[00:26:55] service. Generally speaking, they're talking about the new Testament. So most of the time that's,

[00:27:00] and that's what I'm saying. Like, I don't have that. There's nothing in it that feels even the

[00:27:05] slightest bit personal. Okay. It's just very generic with the Jesus thing. That's like a step

[00:27:13] past higher power, whatever. Right. Like, like Christians, I feel like they're so fucking weird

[00:27:21] because they like took this idea of a higher power and then added to it. Yeah. And that is alive today

[00:27:33] that it, there are people, you know, like our neighbors, you know, that, you know, I have a

[00:27:41] personal relationship with Jesus and have you found Jesus and are you saved by the blood of Jesus and

[00:27:47] washed in his blood and shit. Right. Right. Like, I don't know that it just feels,

[00:27:53] it feels different and I can't fully explain why. Okay. But it's not going to stop me from saying

[00:28:00] this bullshit. Do you have any sense that you believe? Oh no, not at all. Okay. Not a, no,

[00:28:05] this is not a respect for a being, a magical being. Okay. It's not, it's not reference and it's not

[00:28:13] a belief. Well, that's what I'm trying to get at. Like, what is it that's, is it, is it just like

[00:28:17] the idea that you're taking something that is so sacred to so many people and, and, and disparaging it?

[00:28:25] Yeah. And then I'm wondering why it would bug me on a Christian's behalf, but not a Jewish person's

[00:28:32] behalf. I'm curious. I'm curious. And, and I'm just trying to understand myself as I'm saying this.

[00:28:39] I'm, I wonder if there is some kind of like maybe accidentally ingrained antisemitism that I don't

[00:28:46] know about. Like, why would I not be offended on a Jewish person's behalf, but I would be on a

[00:28:51] Christian person's behalf? I wouldn't, I wouldn't view it that way. I don't think, I think that

[00:28:55] you've been exposed to more Christians in your life than you have Jewish folks. Sure. Right. Sure. So I

[00:29:01] think that maybe it's more about, you know, you, you see this religion through the eyes of people

[00:29:08] that you have known throughout your life. And some of my family and friends. And the part

[00:29:12] that rings through that, that, that part, the, the, the idea that rings through is the,

[00:29:18] is Jesus. Yeah. Not, not the Old Testament God. Right. Right. Right. So the thing that

[00:29:24] you're railing against will be railing against this God, Jesus, that they take so seriously

[00:29:30] and love so much. Right. Yeah. Is that, is that kind of what you're thinking? Yeah. I, I'm,

[00:29:36] I'm going to tiptoeing because I don't know. No, I don't know either. And I mean, I'm, I'm going to

[00:29:41] read it and I'm still going to be like, Oh, that's stupid. Right. Or, or I'll say, Oh, that was kind

[00:29:46] of pretty though. Honestly, like I'm going to be the same way with it, but I do have a little bit of

[00:29:54] timidity and reserve, like anxiety, mild anxiety over it. Like, Oh shit's going to get real when

[00:30:01] we hit the new Testament. I think I've gone way beyond any timid behavior with regard to calling

[00:30:06] out God and Jesus, because I don't have any respect for what is happening in our country

[00:30:14] that, that kind of goes along with this religious thought. Right now. I appreciate the allies. I

[00:30:20] appreciate the people who believe in, in the woke Jesus, you know, in the, in the Jesus that,

[00:30:26] that accepts people that is loving, that is whatever. Yeah. I, I've got no problem with people

[00:30:31] that view their religious, their, their religion in general, regardless of whatever that religion is,

[00:30:38] as long as you accept people and, and aren't trying to infringe on my rights. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

[00:30:43] I'm fine with you. You, you, you, you believe whatever the, whatever you want, you know, I'm, I'm,

[00:30:48] I'm good. Sure. But when it becomes a, um, a, a vessel for hate, that's when I no longer give a

[00:30:58] fuck and I'm going to rail against that thing. And that thing has become evangelical Christianity,

[00:31:05] you know, right wing Christianity, um, Christian nationalist, Christian stuff, Nazism. And that,

[00:31:11] that's generally what I rail against. It's not the people who are, who are just spiritual and love

[00:31:17] their God. Right. Like we have people in our discord that we talk to on a regular basis that

[00:31:22] are Christian and it has no, like we, we're really great friends with them and, and they make some

[00:31:30] really great conversation. Right. Because they ask questions and, um, we ask questions and it's just

[00:31:39] a fun dialogue and, and very thoughtful. And Chloe, we're talking about you, sweetheart.

[00:31:44] Yeah. Yeah. We, we have some very interesting and deep conversations, which is kind of similar to

[00:31:53] what got me and you started in the first place was these conversations. Yes. And it's, it's neat to

[00:32:00] have that with somebody else. Yeah. But I think maybe what I'm feeling is, I think you're right. I think it

[00:32:07] has to do with proximity to people of different faiths and I am less exposed to people of Jewish

[00:32:13] faith than Christian faith. Um, and I, I don't like, even though like I bark, I'm all bark and very

[00:32:24] little bite because I cannot stand confrontation, even though I am very dramatic and I make the

[00:32:29] confrontation. Right. I can't stand it. And I feel like I'm setting myself up for a confrontation

[00:32:40] with somebody, anybody. Well, if you had been managing the social media, like I have been,

[00:32:46] you would have known that we already are being very confrontational with people.

[00:32:50] I'm sure that's part of why I avoid social media. Like I do. Yeah. Because I don't want

[00:32:58] to on like, here's the thing. I don't mind them having a negative opinion of me. Right. Like

[00:33:04] I don't care. I'm, I'm happy in my own skin. I'm fine with who I am and what I believe. Right.

[00:33:09] That does not mean I want to be exposed to a constant barrage of how much they hate me,

[00:33:15] how, how, you know, big my forehead is or whatever. Well, let me ask you this as we've

[00:33:21] gone through the Bible, the old Testament, obviously, have you regretted anything that

[00:33:27] you've said about the God of the Bible? No, no. Um, only the times when I've got it wrong or,

[00:33:35] um, you know, misremembered the wrong person. But I mean, the sentiment, have you regretted any

[00:33:39] of the sentiment toward the God of the Bible? Not that I can recall. No. Okay. So

[00:33:44] I feel like you're going to handle the Jesus side of this much the same way. But I haven't had to

[00:33:51] defend myself either. I get it. I understand. Um, and that's generally my job is I do the defending,

[00:33:58] but, um, it's still you, when you are pushed, you, you have very good responses to why you feel the way

[00:34:06] you do. And I think you could handle yourself just fine. It wouldn't be the same way I do it.

[00:34:14] I tend to be more of the picking apart, um, type of arguer than, than you, you formulate your ideas

[00:34:21] in a very emotional and, um, just how you feel and why you feel the way you feel. Yes. Type,

[00:34:28] type of a sentiment. Right. And, and I think that is actually a lot of times more effective than the

[00:34:33] way I handle it because it's coming from a personal side of it, as opposed to a logical side

[00:34:40] of it. I handle the logic, you handle the emotion. And that's why this kind of meshes really well

[00:34:45] sometimes because we, we come at this from two different sides of the coin. I think, I think

[00:34:52] you're right because when I have had the few odd conversations with my parents about, um, religion,

[00:35:01] which we all try to avoid, God help us all, so to speak. Um, and usually it's just me and my mom,

[00:35:09] not my dad. Yeah. Um, when me and my mom get into these conversations, um, she does respond really

[00:35:16] well when I'm able to say, I feel like use my, I feel like, you know, therapy tells you to do,

[00:35:22] you know, and like, you know, I, I hear what you're saying and I understand what you're saying,

[00:35:27] but that doesn't strike me. And I feel this way instead. And, you know, providing an example or,

[00:35:36] you know, ultimately, I think for a lot of people out there that religion, because they're not really

[00:35:42] well versed in what it actually is on an intellectual and, and, um, you know, they, they haven't studied

[00:35:49] the Bible thoroughly, right? They don't know everything about it. They're not educated on the

[00:35:54] Bible. Exactly. They know enough to be dangerous and that's about it. Right. So I feel like for most

[00:35:59] people who are Christian, the, the sentiment that they're going to convey generally is going to be

[00:36:06] a feeling about how they feel about their God, how they feel about their religion, how they feel

[00:36:11] about these things that, that come through this whole process of being religious. Right. Right. And

[00:36:19] when I come at them with logic, that doesn't, that doesn't sit the same way with them. Right. As

[00:36:26] with somebody who's speaking from an emotional side and saying, I don't understand this because I feel

[00:36:30] like, you know, this blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. Or I can't reconcile that. I can be very

[00:36:36] righteous and, and, and, and indignant even. Yeah. I, so, and I don't try to be that way, but when

[00:36:43] someone, when I do what I don't, you carry an authority about you that I completely lack.

[00:36:50] I, right. And part of that is being a man, but part of it is something I have had to learn since

[00:36:56] we've started this podcast, especially on social media is pulling my ego back from a conversation

[00:37:03] because I have a very large ego when it comes to, when I feel like I'm right about something,

[00:37:08] my ego is right there. Yeah. But I have had to learn to pull it back from conversations because

[00:37:13] my goal is not to, to attack people. I'm not trying to attack people. Right. I, from my perspective

[00:37:21] and my way of dealing with this whole question of God and this whole question of religion

[00:37:26] is to ask questions. I want to know why I want to know how I want to know the answer. Right. And,

[00:37:35] and when they can't provide it, I used to get, I still do get upset a little bit depending on how

[00:37:41] the conversation is going. Right. Right. But I'm trying really hard to keep my distance from that

[00:37:48] ego that gets involved in those conversations because a lot of the best conversations I have,

[00:37:53] I respond respectfully and with questions because you're, you're not going to convince anybody.

[00:38:01] And if you know that going in, why get mad about it? Why get pissed off? Right. It's just,

[00:38:05] it's going to be what it is. The only people that I get pissed off at now really are the ones that

[00:38:10] are just there to be trolls and, and just on purpose antagonize. Yeah. Yeah. Those are the

[00:38:15] ones that, that I do still, they send you a thousand links and right. Yeah. Yeah. Or they tell

[00:38:21] you a bunch of bullshittery that takes up like three full tweets. Yeah. And I mean, if you're the

[00:38:28] unfortunate soul who decided to attack me that day and I was in a bad mood, then I probably sent,

[00:38:33] you know, 25 responses to your initial tweet that I was blasting you on. So I apologize for that if

[00:38:40] that was you and you're listening to rebut me, but you know, whatever, you know, if you want to come

[00:38:46] at me with, with facts and, and things that you're going to prove, then do it. Yeah. Don't come at me

[00:38:54] and, and give me sentiment and give me, um, you know, hopeful thought. I, that doesn't do anything

[00:39:01] for me. Right. I don't, I don't operate under wishes and hopes. I operate under facts and logic.

[00:39:09] You know, it strikes me like people's faith in Jesus when I'm around them, it strikes me the same

[00:39:16] way as when I'm around people that like are super into crystals and, um, astrology and tarot card

[00:39:26] reading and that kind of stuff. Like they all very much believe what they believe. And it's always

[00:39:33] like this personal thing that, you know, either if you know, you know, and if you don't, you can't,

[00:39:40] but again, it doesn't bother me unless they say you need to do this also. Right. That's,

[00:39:44] that's when it starts bothering me. Right. I don't know. I don't need to do that. I don't need to

[00:39:49] believe what you believe. Right. You, you can fuck right off with that. Right. No, I totally agree.

[00:39:53] I'm just, I'm, I'm still trying to parse out like what my feelings are about the whole Jesus thing.

[00:40:03] So, okay, let me finish this up. I'm so sorry. Yeah. We got off on a, on a, on a sidebar there

[00:40:09] for quite a while. Yeah. There's three sentences left. I'm, I'm sorry. That was me, I think starting

[00:40:16] it. And then I flabbered your gaster. Yeah. Yeah. And you were like, hold on record scratch.

[00:40:23] Right. So I would rather go down, you know, these rabbit holes than not, because I think we have some

[00:40:29] of our best conversations doing that. No, absolutely. Just hashing out what we believe

[00:40:33] and why we believe it. You know, I mean, these are our back patio talks. Yeah, exactly. This is

[00:40:38] why we started this podcast. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, by the way, I love you. I love you too.

[00:40:43] Hear this and testify against the descendants of Jacob declares the Lord, the Lord God almighty.

[00:40:50] On the day I punish Israel for her sins. I will destroy the altars of Bethel. The horns of the altar

[00:40:57] will be cut off and fall to the ground. Not, wow. Okay. I will tear down the winter house

[00:41:03] along with the summer house. Okay. I think he's talking about like the storerooms. Sure. Okay.

[00:41:09] You know, when it's hot, we stay over here. He's going to do the bad. He's going to tear things

[00:41:13] down. Okay. Yeah. All right. The houses adorned with ivy will be destroyed. But if you don't

[00:41:18] have ivy, you're good. And the mansions will be demolished. Fucking mansions. Declares the Lord

[00:41:23] the end. I wonder, I wonder because there is some, like, especially in the older books,

[00:41:31] there is some love for the downtrodden and poor. Yeah. Right. Earlier on. So I wonder if ivy is an

[00:41:38] indicator of a higher status. Possibly. I'm not saying that it is for sure. But if you, if you took

[00:41:44] the time to decorate your house and make it look fancy, like maybe ivy was a way to indicate you took

[00:41:51] time to curate your, your house in a certain way back then. You're saying it's like a class

[00:41:55] sign. Well, otherwise, why would they indicate that he's going to tear down the houses with ivy

[00:42:00] as opposed to just the houses? Oh, I said ivy, but it's actually ivory. Oh,

[00:42:06] the houses adorned with ivory will be destroyed. And there's a classist thing. Yeah. Okay. So he is

[00:42:11] railing against the, the rich and the powerful. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. That makes sense.

[00:42:17] That makes way more sense. Yeah. Okay. I'm glad we revisited that. Yeah. Sorry. That's my apologies.

[00:42:24] Yeah. They took the, the tusks right off of those elephants. Yeah. Okay. That makes me sad.

[00:42:30] Yeah. Yeah. Oof. We watched an episode of Torchwood with kid last night and there was a monster

[00:42:38] that was from like another dimension time rift kind of thing. And it kept regrowing parts and these

[00:42:46] butchers kept cutting off pieces of it to sell like for hamburgers or whatever. Yeah. And you could hear

[00:42:54] the creature like crying in pain every time they did it. Yeah. It was kind of tragic. I, I was like,

[00:43:00] I don't even remember. Like we already watched that show like years ago. Yeah. But now kid is old

[00:43:06] enough that they're wanting to watch it because it's an offshoot from like doctor who. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:11] And we're all caught up on the doctor who, so we had to watch Torchwood speaking of which I have to say

[00:43:16] this real quick. Okay. The new Disney doctor who the first two episodes suck complete fucking ass.

[00:43:21] Yeah. Okay. Like, I mean, I can understand if you stop watching it after the first or second episode.

[00:43:26] Yeah. Like for sure. Like it's totally understandable and I don't even blame you a little bit. No, it was

[00:43:31] complete trash and, and awful. Yeah. I don't know what they were thinking. Well, they did fight. They

[00:43:36] fucked it up bad. They did. But if you did stop watching on episode one or two, it does get better.

[00:43:43] I think so. There's a lot of people that don't think so, but I have to wonder if they're like only

[00:43:50] speaking of the first two. Those first two episodes leave a really fucking bad taste in your mouth. Right.

[00:43:55] I mean, they really do. But by the end of that season, they've turned it around. I was like,

[00:43:59] whoa, like there's some good stuff happening. Yeah. The first two episodes, it was like Disney

[00:44:04] did their fucking Disney princess with goddamn doctor who. And I'm like, fuck you, Disney.

[00:44:08] Yeah. The hell were you thinking? Yeah. And they, they basically ruined it. They did.

[00:44:13] But then they brought the old writer back and he, he kind of fixed it. So yeah, I think,

[00:44:20] I think he kind of fixed it. God bless the Moffat. No, no, no.

[00:44:25] No, no. I just have to say it every once in a while because it's funny.

[00:44:29] Oh, okay. Because, you know, we're an atheist podcast. Yeah, no, I got it.

[00:44:34] Okay. Logic bless the Moffat. Yeah.

[00:44:37] Void, I've heard people say. Math. Math.

[00:44:40] Math. And butterflies.

[00:44:42] Right. Sure.

[00:44:43] Sure. Okay. So we, we're going to, we're going to get out of here.

[00:44:48] Okie dokie.

[00:44:48] That was Amos chapter three.

[00:44:50] Sure as fuck was.

[00:44:51] And, and tomorrow even we're going to be back with Amos chapter four.

[00:44:54] Yes, that is correct. We will.

[00:44:56] Yeah. All right. Bye.

[00:44:57] Bye.

[00:44:58] Bye.

[00:44:59] Bye.