Second Maccabees kicks off like a group text from Jerusalem to the Jewish diaspora in Egypt—basically: “Hey fam, come celebrate the Temple rededication… also here’s some bonus lore.” And by “lore,” we mean sacred fire sludge that suspiciously sounds like oil, Jeremiah allegedly hiding the Ark in a cave, and a whole lot of “trust us, bro” theology dressed up as history.
Then the book swerves into the first actually entertaining plot: Heliodorus tries to jack the Temple treasury, and the response is… heavenly WWE. A shiny, gold-plated horseman shows up and angels beat Helio within an inch of his life—because apparently God’s moral priorities include “protecting religious bank vaults” more than, you know, people. It’s propaganda with a budget.
From there, it’s internal corruption speedrun: the high priesthood becomes a pay-to-win title, Greek gymnasium culture gets pushed, and the whole “assimilation vs identity” mess starts boiling over. By Chapter 5, Antiochus IV (still the absolute worst) rolls back into Jerusalem alive and furious, murders thousands, and loots the Temple—because when God doesn’t intervene, the book conveniently blames “Jewish sin” as the reason genocide was “allowed temporarily.” Cool lesson, very humane. 🙃
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📌 Topics Covered:
- 2 Maccabees 1–2 and the “Dear Egypt Jews—party with us” origin story vibes (hello, Hanukkah context).
- The Ark gets upgraded to “Jeremiah hid it in a cave”—biblical fanfic energy at full volume.
- Heliodorus vs. the Temple Treasury: a robbery attempt that turns into celestial curb-stomping.
- Why First Maccabees = dry politics but Second Maccabees = religious propaganda with miracles.
- The high priesthood becomes a bribery auction (Jason, Menelaus, and everyone behaving exactly as expected).
- Greek gymnasiums, assimilation pressure, and the culture-war roots of “who belongs” politics.
- Antiochus IV returns “dead” rumors debunked… and responds with mass violence + Temple looting.
- The book’s favorite excuse: “God didn’t stop it because you deserved it.” (Yikes.)
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00:00 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Husband, why do you know what we're doing today?
00:04 --> 00:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we just finished, let's see, five chapters of second macabees?
00:10 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, it's fucked up!
00:11 --> 00:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think that means that, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think we might be doing this on a Saturday.
00:17 --> 00:18 [SPEAKER_00]: This is going out on a Saturday.
00:19 --> 00:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So guess what guess what this episode is?
00:21 --> 00:21 [SPEAKER_00]: What is it?
00:22 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Q&A Saturday.
00:24 --> 00:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really worried that would never happen again.
00:26 --> 00:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
00:27 --> 00:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
00:27 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure it's exciting.
00:29 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't really, we don't cater to Saturdays anymore, but here it is.
00:32 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Here it is.
00:33 --> 00:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a Q&A and it's on a Saturday.
00:35 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It's over five chapters, which deserves a Q&A.
00:39 --> 00:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
00:39 --> 00:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And these five, in particular, because as you said, it's chapters one to five of second macabees and more like,
00:45 --> 00:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, it's been all over the place.
00:48 --> 00:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Like literally, I mean, I'm having trouble following what's happening.
00:51 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's first macabees was like, who is he, he, who, who, he, who, he, who, this is where, what, what, what, when, when, what, who, what, when, yeah, yeah, it's hard to follow.
01:07 --> 01:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Lots of questions.
01:08 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_01]: There's some gems and dicks.
01:10 --> 01:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Jimson, Dixen, Dixen, Jims, bringing it in and dong.
01:15 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, that's what we're doing today.
01:17 --> 01:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you ready to get into this?
01:18 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_00]: She'll just fuck him.
01:19 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's do it.
01:20 --> 01:21 [UNKNOWN]: Okay, okay.
01:27 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
01:27 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about second macabee.
01:30 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:31 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_01]: One through five, right?
01:32 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah.
01:32 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I just have like a thing I want to say about second macabees in general before I talk about the first five chapters.
01:39 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
01:40 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Just as a reminder, it's not a continuation of first macabee.
01:45 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
01:45 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Like definitely not.
01:47 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like covering
01:53 --> 01:54 [SPEAKER_00]: the early days.
01:54 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It actually starts a little bit before first macabees.
01:58 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the OG macabees.
02:00 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's a different story of the macabees and it starts before those macabees.
02:06 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like season one but wrapped in a book too.
02:08 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's like how
02:13 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_00]: it's like if if they made Harry Potter movies.
02:17 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
02:18 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And then about 20 years later, they decided to make Harry Potter TV show, these are things that are happening.
02:26 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
02:26 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And and but they started Harry Potter TV show at a different point, like maybe and from different character perspectives and maybe.
02:38 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Like from the time he was born,
02:41 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, he's alive.
02:42 --> 02:50 [SPEAKER_00]: He's over there, but maybe they talked about maybe they started it from the wizarding world perspective instead of the Harry Potter perspective.
02:50 --> 02:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
02:51 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
02:51 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
02:52 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm just saying it's it's like that is different.
02:55 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not one of these things is definitely not like.
02:58 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
02:59 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not a continuation.
03:01 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a different same story.
03:05 --> 03:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
03:05 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
03:06 --> 03:13 [SPEAKER_00]: it overlaps heavily with the first seven chapters of first macabees, so not the whole macaduto.
03:13 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, right, it's the really shit.
03:15 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
03:16 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It's also in a bridgeman of a five volume work by Jason of Syreen, which we did talk about.
03:24 --> 03:25 [SPEAKER_01]: They did, yeah, they had a Jason Jason.
03:26 --> 03:27 [SPEAKER_01]: We're like, who the fuck's the Jason?
03:27 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're like, what's a Jason, we know a Jason, Jason who Jason and the ergonauts, and that's when I got mad at you for not knowing really what a fucking Argonaut was forever.
03:37 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's also written with strong theological interpretation, like there's a lot of God, but not really in some chapters.
03:46 --> 03:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Not all of them.
03:47 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_00]: In second macabees in general, it's less of a history lesson like first macabees was supposed to be just a recording of what happened.
03:57 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_00]: This one is supposed to be thematically based and have like lessons.
04:02 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
04:02 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
04:03 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_01]: But they definitely have chapters that we're just all about like the the Greeks and what they were doing and still so it's not all god themed so far.
04:11 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure definitely definitely.
04:13 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It's also second macabees as a whole is very into martyrdom miracles and divine justice.
04:22 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So it first macabees was like a political history like a history teacher telling you.
04:27 --> 04:32 [SPEAKER_00]: this happened and then this happened and then this happened and you're like can you define what the word this means?
04:33 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Second macabees is religious propaganda.
04:36 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
04:36 --> 04:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
04:37 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Although not every single chapter has the religious overtone in it.
04:42 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
04:44 --> 04:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it opens, second Macbees itself, the book opens with letters from Jews in Jerusalem to the Jews in Egypt.
04:56 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
04:56 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I remember that.
04:57 --> 04:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember that there were letters.
04:59 --> 05:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't remember which Jews were talking and who they were talking to and that they were both Jews.
05:07 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I was very confused and I think I said this in our last episode.
05:11 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I was very confused that this was like, Jew on Jew violence.
05:16 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, this was too separate, party like in my mind.
05:19 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It was all the Jews are the same.
05:21 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_00]: They are all one people, the end.
05:23 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
05:24 --> 05:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm very, I'm a very simple person.
05:27 --> 05:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So I need things spelled out for me that these are different groups of people with the same God and the same practice and they call themselves by the same name, but they have very different geographic homes which influences
05:48 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_00]: their political beliefs and their cultural beliefs and and like that's obvious and retrospect, but when you just say these Jews were talking to these Jews and the Jews did this and then they did that like in my mind it was just like all one club right right they were all at the club dancing to the same music you know
06:10 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but obviously that couldn't be the case because there was that whole huge Jewish diaspora community in Alexandria diaspora.
06:20 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I realized as soon as I was like, what did you say?
06:23 --> 06:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I said, I said diaspora.
06:26 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
06:27 --> 06:36 [SPEAKER_00]: the diaspora community in Alexandria, so Egypt, under the Greek rule, Egypt, the Tulumat Kingdom, that whole thing.
06:37 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So what's happening in this book is that the Jerusalem Jews are basically saying, hey, hey, diaspora fam, diaspora fam, I know I can't say it right.
06:48 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, this is one of those cases where
06:51 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I've read a word for years, and I know how to use it properly, but I've never actually heard anybody ever say it out loud.
06:58 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You've never heard that out loud.
07:00 --> 07:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Not not actively.
07:02 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure I've heard it, but not where it actively stuck.
07:06 --> 07:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
07:06 --> 07:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I have to like be like every time I see the word in print to say it out loud, I have to actively
07:13 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_00]: how is that pronounced?
07:15 --> 07:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not part of my normal lexicon.
07:17 --> 07:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
07:18 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So diaspora, diaspora, diarrhea, diaspora, you know what I mean?
07:25 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Not diarrhea, right?
07:28 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_00]: No diaspora, okay?
07:30 --> 07:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So the Jerusalem guys were like, hey, diaspora gang celebrate the rededication of the temple with us, and let's all party together at the same club, right?
07:43 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I wasn't getting any of that.
07:46 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
07:46 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's on me.
07:48 --> 07:57 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is this party, this invitation, this let's all do this together, even though we're geographically separated.
07:58 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
08:00 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
08:01 --> 08:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think we took that if we kind of to live in the first Mac, we did.
08:04 --> 08:04 [SPEAKER_00]: We did.
08:04 --> 08:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It just didn't stick.
08:06 --> 08:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
08:06 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And like I said, you know.
08:08 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I put two together exactly, I don't think.
08:10 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we did.
08:11 --> 08:18 [SPEAKER_00]: We did in the first place and then we talked about it in the first place and we were like, so important, macabees ought to be included because.
08:18 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
08:19 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_00]: We had this whole conversation about it.
08:20 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And then like we started over with second macabees and it went right out the window.
08:25 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Except for the fact that we're reading the Christian Bible and really Christians, they don't do Hanukkah.
08:29 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, no, but we were like, it should be part of the OT for the Jewish Bible, you know what I mean?
08:35 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It should be part of that because it is very important and because there are more Christians starting to recognize that and who are starting to
08:47 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_00]: is not celebrate, but recognize the importance of Hanika.
08:51 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't want to discount that as a thing.
08:54 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
08:54 --> 08:57 [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, yeah, I clearly didn't stick.
08:57 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't get any of it, but that's what's happening.
09:00 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Got it.
09:00 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
09:01 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm kind of glad to know that you also earn idiot.
09:05 --> 09:06 [SPEAKER_00]: That makes me happy.
09:06 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also been like an eon since we had to first read second Mac, please chapter one.
09:10 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_01]: No, first Mac, first Mac, first second chapter.
09:12 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Second Mac, please chapter one.
09:14 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_00]: You said second chapter.
09:16 --> 09:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, all the macabees.
09:18 --> 09:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you're going back to first macabees.
09:19 --> 09:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I thought that's what you meant.
09:21 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
09:21 --> 09:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind.
09:23 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying we haven't been doing our podcast in a regular slay.
09:25 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah.
09:26 --> 09:28 [SPEAKER_01]: The letter I even, like, that was a while back.
09:28 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true, that's true.
09:30 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I should not have quickened you.
09:32 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought you were saying something else.
09:33 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
09:33 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_00]: My God, again, that's all.
09:36 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so chapter one.
09:38 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all those diasporas.
09:39 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Shut up diasporas, diasporas, diasporas, diasporas, diasporas.
09:43 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, so chapter one, second macabees.
09:45 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_00]: OK.
09:46 --> 09:52 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a call to celebrate the festival of the temple's purification, more than anything.
09:52 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what that letter is about.
09:54 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
09:55 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a legend about sacred fire hidden by priests during the Babylonian exile.
10:01 --> 10:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Put it into that being sacred sludge.
10:03 --> 10:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean to that.
10:05 --> 10:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Texas T oil.
10:08 --> 10:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm like, go and hit your cup of fire and shit.
10:11 --> 10:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I was like, like, sounds like fucking oil.
10:14 --> 10:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh my god, they just discovered oil.
10:16 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah.
10:17 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but we did a Q and A thing.
10:19 --> 10:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Not a Q and A, but like a research that I don't remember.
10:22 --> 10:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about it.
10:23 --> 10:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And no, that's not what it was.
10:24 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_01]: What was it?
10:26 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_00]: something made up, the imaginary, or some other, not there's a male, a male, a oil.
10:32 --> 10:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Something like that.
10:34 --> 10:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was, um, yeah, there was that, that magical fire.
10:41 --> 10:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
10:42 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
10:42 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, which I forgot about until I read that and I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot about that.
10:46 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_00]: There's lots of references to Niamaya.
10:50 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Was there?
10:51 --> 10:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't recall that.
10:52 --> 10:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we might have missed him because we're idiots.
10:55 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, there's back.
10:56 --> 11:06 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, there were references to Nehemiah and there were references to Jeremiah hiding the arc and this is not in the Hebrew Bible.
11:07 --> 11:08 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a later tradition.
11:08 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember he hit in chapter one of Second Macadoodles.
11:13 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_00]: He hit it in this cave.
11:15 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
11:15 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_00]: The same cave that like Moses is supposed to have died on or some shit that mountain.
11:20 --> 11:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
11:21 --> 11:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember?
11:22 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So he kind of only kind.
11:23 --> 11:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So they, that's indicating that they had the arc and passed.
11:28 --> 11:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
11:28 --> 11:29 [SPEAKER_01]: When we thought they did.
11:29 --> 11:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Which they didn't.
11:30 --> 11:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
11:31 --> 11:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
11:31 --> 11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: That just seems like a fantasy type.
11:34 --> 11:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was like a fanfic.
11:35 --> 11:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's an OT fanfic.
11:38 --> 11:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Because he really didn't show up past who was it like Solomon?
11:42 --> 11:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Solomon, like Maya sent it to Ethiopia with his girlfriend and his son.
11:48 --> 11:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
11:49 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_00]: His the Prince of Egypt.
11:51 --> 11:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Sounds like a rewrite where the like, let's just make the song.
11:53 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I saw the Prince of Egypt, but I meant the Prince of Ethiopia.
11:56 --> 11:57 [SPEAKER_00]: But they both start with Egypt.
11:57 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Princess of... No, his son.
11:59 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, oh.
12:01 --> 12:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Via the queen of Shiba.
12:04 --> 12:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, right.
12:04 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:06 --> 12:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they just did a fanfic, and I'm here for it on this day.
12:09 --> 12:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
12:09 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, why not?
12:10 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_01]: We're already talking about a god.
12:12 --> 12:13 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to know.
12:13 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_00]: As long as you're going in, go big.
12:15 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:15 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
12:16 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:17 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So there was that magic fire.
12:18 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_00]: References to Nehemiah and references to Jeremiah hiding the arc.
12:22 --> 12:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it is that arc, okay?
12:24 --> 12:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm just, this is just my two cents, though, that they might want to get their shit in order.
12:29 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
12:29 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Because like, you can't just keep having different fanficks about the same thing.
12:33 --> 12:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's different people writing fanfics so they can do whatever the fuck I can, but then when you try to say that it's God's word, then it doesn't, you know, hold any water or or magical fire sludge apparently it does I guess, I mean, it's happening, they're doing the things, so whatever.
12:52 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, this whole book, it, um, connects very loosely to the Ezra and the Amaya bits of the OT and the Babylonian exile and the Persian restoration period.
13:08 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
13:08 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
13:09 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But again, it's not narratively connected to first macabees, the chapter isn't.
13:14 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it's a very theological framing.
13:17 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Like there, there is lots of God stuff in this particular chapter.
13:21 --> 13:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
13:22 --> 13:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It's weird, though.
13:24 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
13:25 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was chapter one.
13:27 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
13:27 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
13:28 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Are we comfortable with?
13:30 --> 13:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess that's what happened.
13:31 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
13:32 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It was weird.
13:33 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And in recollection, now having gone back over it, I'm like, oh, that's good.
13:38 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_01]: They were letters in Hanukkah.
13:39 --> 13:43 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why it was confusing because it's still kind of like whatever y'all.
13:44 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
13:44 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
13:45 --> 13:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So chapter two.
13:47 --> 13:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So Jeremiah hides the tent, the arc, and the altar on the mountain, okay?
13:52 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
13:54 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And tradition associates this with Mount Nibo.
13:57 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, which is that mountain.
13:59 --> 14:00 [SPEAKER_01]: The Moses mountain.
14:00 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: The Moses died mountain.
14:01 --> 14:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not the Jesus wept mountain.
14:04 --> 14:22 [SPEAKER_00]: The Moses died mountain There are he then claims that these sacred items will be revealed when God restores Israel So some Christian groups have like excitedly jumped on this chapter of second macabees because they're like
14:22 --> 14:40 [SPEAKER_00]: that's why we need to get everything together and convert the Jews and make them Christian too so that we get back to the archive and see the park and I'm like I think you guys are like missing the force for the trees like and missing the whole point of it.
14:40 --> 14:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
14:40 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
14:42 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_00]: But then the author of chapter two says oh and FYI PS
14:47 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_00]: edited to add.
14:49 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_00]: This book is totally a summary of Jason of Syrians five volumes.
14:54 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So like anyways, he's like, I just condensed all of that into one chapter.
14:59 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't.
15:00 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't be mad at me.
15:01 --> 15:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I did the best I could with what I had.
15:03 --> 15:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
15:03 --> 15:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's just so much more this around the Bible.
15:07 --> 15:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:07 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It gets immense.
15:09 --> 15:11 [SPEAKER_01]: It's immense how much material is out there.
15:11 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Which really funny is that both macabees, even though they are like Bible adjacent, like they are part of normal Bibles, just not like the normal, what we think of as normal Bibles because they're part of Catholic.
15:26 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
15:26 --> 15:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
15:27 --> 15:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Bibles not Protestant.
15:28 --> 15:51 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I say it's not part of the Protestant right so they are they are part of Catholic Bibles, but not Protestant Bibles, so they're they're normal, but they're only like normal adjacent Question mark sure like I don't know how I feel about Catholic Catholics are pretty big denominations No, I know exactly not normal and they were there before the Protestants, so yeah
15:51 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
15:52 --> 15:55 [SPEAKER_00]: The whole thing is just so it's also in the orthodox.
15:55 --> 15:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's different.
15:55 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:56 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I think even in the orthodox ones, there's like four books from those, which we're not, we're not going to cover past two, but I think there's more in one of them.
16:05 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I, not all of them are.
16:07 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
16:07 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, but it is a few nominations out there.
16:11 --> 16:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:12 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_00]: There are more macabees and macabee books.
16:16 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's like through five, but three,
16:21 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_00]: all part of that whole thing.
16:24 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
16:24 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, they're actually not excited based on like we're just doing to.
16:28 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:28 --> 16:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we're done.
16:29 --> 16:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:29 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Because because these are the Catholic ones.
16:31 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So these are still considered um Canon to a large part of the Abrahamic face or what the fuckever.
16:40 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:41 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
16:42 --> 16:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Um,
16:43 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_00]: but which really funny though is that so we've got like Bible then we've got like Bible adjacent but still Bible but then we've got like them referencing like Bible adjacent but not accepted and then we've on top of that got like fanfic that's just like fucking out there oh yeah just like not even a little bit related
17:02 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_01]: But obviously somebody thought it was important, you know?
17:05 --> 17:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I know!
17:05 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's out there.
17:07 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_01]: We've already read some of that thing, fell in the drag and different things that were, and they're not exactly not biblical texts.
17:15 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_01]: They're rich.
17:16 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they just didn't make the cut.
17:18 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess they just didn't make the cut.
17:19 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just so fucking weird.
17:20 --> 17:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:21 --> 17:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So the story in chapters one and two, they are framed in temple theology diaspora unity and God preserving his sacred objects or man's sacred objects because of their relation to God.
17:38 --> 17:39 [SPEAKER_03]: right, right.
17:39 --> 17:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's chapters one and two.
17:40 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're kind of different as why I like put them together.
17:43 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:44 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
17:44 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So are we good on chapters one and two?
17:46 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Good on one and two.
17:47 --> 17:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
17:47 --> 17:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Now we move into chapter three.
17:49 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
17:49 --> 17:50 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
17:50 --> 17:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:50 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_00]: The first real plot movement of second macabees starts in chapter three.
17:56 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
17:57 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_00]: This is where we actually start getting some story because it's not a letter.
18:00 --> 18:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:00 --> 18:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
18:01 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So we enter also into some events that are found in first macabees, but they're told
18:07 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the setting in this case it's not letters.
18:10 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_00]: This is set in Jerusalem as well as in the temple.
18:15 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
18:15 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
18:16 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_00]: The key figure in this one in chapter three is Heliodoris whom I refer to as Helio because I just couldn't.
18:25 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
18:25 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just like whatever.
18:28 --> 18:36 [SPEAKER_00]: He sent by the Salaised King,
18:37 --> 18:38 [SPEAKER_00]: to seize temple funds.
18:39 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
18:40 --> 18:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So the Greek guy, the salaised king, philosopher, raptor, is like Helio.
18:46 --> 18:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Go get me that fucking gold from that temple.
18:49 --> 18:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Because there's some crazy shit.
18:50 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_00]: There's some crazy shit.
18:52 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:52 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So the Greek king, salaises, philosopher, raptor, says Helio, go get me the gold from that fucking temple.
19:00 --> 19:02 [SPEAKER_01]: This was definitely my favorite book.
19:02 --> 19:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're like chapter so far in the
19:04 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I totally agree, fine, too.
19:07 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So, but here's some important context for the chapter, okay?
19:09 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
19:10 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_00]: After Antioch is the third, so not the fourth of Piffinese, the OG villain, okay, the one that came before him.
19:18 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_00]: After Antioch is the third, lost to Rome, the Solacid owned massive tribute payments, or I'm sorry, Ode.
19:26 --> 19:28 [SPEAKER_00]: massive tribute payments.
19:28 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That's part of it.
19:29 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_00]: The breakdown with the salaisid empire was.
19:32 --> 19:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't just that my guy Alexander the Great left his entire empire to the five different guys.
19:42 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And then they like couldn't get it together and make it work.
19:46 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_00]: It was also that because
19:52 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_00]: they owed massive tribute payments because they were dead.
19:56 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_00]: They were in debt.
19:57 --> 19:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:57 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So they were like, we fucking need money.
19:59 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
20:00 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And we will rob each other.
20:02 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll certainly rob those Jews over there.
20:04 --> 20:06 [SPEAKER_00]: They have a lot of fucking gold in that temple.
20:06 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
20:07 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_00]: That seems like an easy bet.
20:09 --> 20:10 [SPEAKER_00]: They're small.
20:10 --> 20:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like you don't really be really in debt though if you were worried about the, um,
20:15 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_01]: the army that the other person has.
20:17 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And they were certainly worried about the Romans coming to collect because they had already lost to them.
20:23 --> 20:24 [SPEAKER_01]: We know about history, you know?
20:24 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they had already lost to them as why they owed.
20:27 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And they were owing tax and tribute to them.
20:30 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:30 --> 20:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, they were like, yeah, we need gold.
20:33 --> 20:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go bug the Jews.
20:34 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_00]: They have it.
20:35 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It's an easy mark.
20:36 --> 20:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Easy target.
20:37 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Go get it, Helio.
20:39 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So Helia Doris tries to raid the temple treasury, right when you try real hard.
20:44 --> 20:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I didn't understand at the time like who's seeking who's gold and why?
20:48 --> 20:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I didn't understand the historical context around it.
20:51 --> 20:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Got it.
20:52 --> 20:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
20:52 --> 20:54 [SPEAKER_00]: This is making more sense to me now.
20:54 --> 20:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:55 --> 20:55 [UNKNOWN]: Okay.
20:55 --> 21:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Second macabees though in this chapter adds a dramatic miracle scene.
21:01 --> 21:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't they though?
21:02 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
21:03 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
21:03 --> 21:05 [SPEAKER_00]: This was not in first macabees.
21:05 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_00]: This was not anywhere else.
21:07 --> 21:09 [SPEAKER_01]: No, there was no there was no god shit in first macabees.
21:09 --> 21:16 [SPEAKER_00]: No, this this whole miracle scene is like just special to this little fanfic chapter.
21:16 --> 21:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Very fucking special.
21:18 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Chapter three was everything.
21:20 --> 21:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I want this in a movie, if I'm being honest, okay, so I have been late horsemen appears just like random and they refer to this Heavenly Horseman as God in the chapter When at least they kind of indicated that it was I don't remember the close to God I don't remember the freezing, but I remember mean you going weed is that God right or is that like an angel?
21:42 --> 21:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Because of the way they reference it, it was very close to the very least very close to God.
21:47 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why my summary just refers to him as a heavenly horseman sure.
21:52 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll leave it.
21:52 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't know if it was gotten goal-plated goal-plated yeah angels beat Helio nearly to death angels beat Helio the fuck up man They were like absolutely fucking not leave the Jews alone.
22:06 --> 22:09 [SPEAKER_01]: That's cheating stop touch their fucking your angels on I know, right?
22:09 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not cool.
22:10 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
22:11 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So Helios is like fuck me angels and maybe gold god on a horse right?
22:16 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:16 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why god needs a horse or gold for that matter.
22:20 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:20 --> 22:21 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what he said.
22:21 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm out of here.
22:23 --> 22:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't just like piece out.
22:25 --> 22:27 [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't just know about he repented.
22:29 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you know what we talked about this before right if if God pulled some shit and and made something materialized in our backyard Yeah, I'm okay.
22:38 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna repent maybe I don't know if I would repent so much as I would be like I eat my words Yes, sir.
22:46 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I eat my hat.
22:48 --> 22:48 [SPEAKER_01]: You do exist.
22:48 --> 22:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I got them.
22:49 --> 22:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I was wrong.
22:50 --> 22:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
22:50 --> 22:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, okay, God exists my absolute bad.
22:54 --> 22:54 [SPEAKER_00]: That's on me.
22:54 --> 22:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And I probably will be God.
22:55 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_00]: But you know what?
22:56 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I would.
22:57 --> 22:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wouldn't say that's on me.
23:00 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I started to say I didn't believe in you and that's on me I don't think that's on me.
23:04 --> 23:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that pear really on him.
23:07 --> 23:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:08 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:08 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:08 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
23:09 --> 23:09 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah
23:09 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So Helios gets beat the fuck up by God in his angels.
23:13 --> 23:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:13 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And Helios repents because God protects the temple.
23:17 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:17 --> 23:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, none of this is in first macarons.
23:20 --> 23:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Not even close.
23:21 --> 23:28 [SPEAKER_00]: But the idea in this chapter is God protects the temple from foreign seizure.
23:28 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, and we had a little bit of a discussion I think about this too, but like we know that I was people that did this right and it just takes away a little bit from the people that probably died defending the people.
23:41 --> 23:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like those names should be recorded right, but no, he was got an armorsuit and gold and angels that did it.
23:48 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah crazy.
23:50 --> 23:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:50 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm reading an interesting book that I probably will talk about actually, but I'm not going to mention here because I don't think it's appropriate, but I did like a phrase from it where it said something to the effect of it's interesting that when something goes right they always
24:13 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_00]: go talk to God and praise Him and worship Him and thank Him.
24:19 --> 24:26 [SPEAKER_00]: But when something goes wrong, me and my organization, the main character of this book.
24:26 --> 24:28 [SPEAKER_00]: like we get in trouble and blamed for everything wrong.
24:29 --> 24:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you get all the heat, but none of the glory.
24:32 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then the final phrase from that was, it must be good to be the God, right?
24:38 --> 24:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Or how awesome to be the God, or something like that.
24:41 --> 24:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just like, it's the I winch in there.
24:43 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's that, I forget it was like, I had him say on their big daddy, I think, because what it was?
24:47 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Probably.
24:48 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_01]: He had this kid and they played this card game in it, and the kid was like,
24:52 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_00]: these would collect all the stuff say I win and then the other guy was like what what the hell is this and like well he's he's five you know he went God's five he went yeah yeah that's true that is so fucking true so that's what happened in chapter three okay crazyness and you're right that's the best chapter so far but it is it is it's the most exciting story wise it's the most crazy
25:16 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my eyes widened much more in that episode and that show and that chapter, then and any other chapter thus far.
25:24 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
25:24 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Of all the macabees, honestly.
25:26 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the first macabees was pretty dry.
25:28 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:29 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it had to happen and I was sure, but half the time I was like, but it was a chronicle.
25:34 --> 25:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it is talking right now.
25:36 --> 25:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it was more just like a very dry chronicle of what was happening.
25:39 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was like sitting in a really, really bad
25:46 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_00]: where it's like, oh, you don't love history.
25:49 --> 25:51 [SPEAKER_01]: You just, this is your job.
25:51 --> 26:02 [SPEAKER_01]: When it reminds, when we're, when we're doing a chapter or reminds me of the, um, begats, I know we're in a bad spot because like with the begats, I just had like a, I had to listen so intently just to get anything out of it.
26:02 --> 26:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I threw in all kinds of like, microphone mascara, lamb accounts.
26:08 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I just had a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little
26:37 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so chapter four now.
26:40 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
26:41 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, chapter four.
26:42 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_00]: The theme is internal Jewish corruption.
26:45 --> 26:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
26:46 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_00]: We've got massive corruption.
26:48 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:49 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And things are getting political.
26:51 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
26:51 --> 26:53 [SPEAKER_00]: As they always do, as they always were.
26:53 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And as they always are.
26:54 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
26:56 --> 26:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
26:57 --> 27:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:07 --> 27:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get his brother Jason, okay.
27:12 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_00]: A different Jason, right?
27:13 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:14 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Not Jason Sireen and not.
27:15 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's what Jason did.
27:17 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So many same name characters.
27:19 --> 27:20 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh.
27:20 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, do we get to all the marries in the New Testament?
27:23 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's like at least three or some shit like that.
27:27 --> 27:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
27:28 --> 27:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that's very Magdalene and then Jesus' mom, Mary.
27:30 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So.
27:31 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:32 --> 27:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, let's not forget, um, I already forgot.
27:36 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:37 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So never mind.
27:37 --> 27:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:38 --> 27:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure there's another Mary.
27:39 --> 27:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's another Mary.
27:40 --> 27:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Probably.
27:41 --> 27:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure there are many, many Mary's, many, many, many moxon, many, okay, anyways, um, so we've got Jason right and he bribes the Salaised King.
27:53 --> 27:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
27:53 --> 27:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:54 --> 28:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we've got the Salaised King, who is Antiochist the fourth epiphany, the OG villain.
28:01 --> 28:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:01 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not sinister Simon, sinister Salaised King.
28:05 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, not not Simon right, but he is sinister.
28:09 --> 28:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so he by he's sinister.
28:12 --> 28:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Not he's he's a fucking king that's in control of these people, but he's the old Jeeville.
28:17 --> 28:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, I guess the fuck.
28:19 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's peace shit.
28:21 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a piece of shit.
28:23 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_00]: He buys the high priesthood, which is like a huge deal.
28:28 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, who does again the
28:30 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_00]: The Salaisi King and Tykes the Fourth of Piffinies, the O.G.
28:34 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Villain.
28:35 --> 28:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, but Jason bought it.
28:36 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
28:37 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_01]: To give it to Jason.
28:38 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen to me.
28:39 --> 28:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm listening.
28:40 --> 28:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Listen to me.
28:42 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
28:42 --> 28:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Jason Bride of the Salaisi King.
28:44 --> 28:48 [SPEAKER_00]: The Salaisi King is in Tykes the Fourth of Piffinies.
28:49 --> 28:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And he buys the priesthood, okay?
28:52 --> 28:53 [SPEAKER_01]: for Jason.
28:53 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
28:54 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
28:55 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:55 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
28:55 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So, the high priesthood becomes political, corrupt, and very harmonized, meaning it goes Greek.
29:03 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
29:04 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Jason promotes Greek culture.
29:06 --> 29:08 [SPEAKER_00]: He builds a gymnasium.
29:08 --> 29:10 [SPEAKER_00]: He encourages Greek custom.
29:10 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And he undermines Jewish law.
29:12 --> 29:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you just recently listened to our episode about gymnasiums and do songs.
29:18 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
29:19 --> 29:47 [SPEAKER_00]: you will know what the fuck I'm talking about and why this was important and I all had to do with circumcision which just sounds so weird but actually like makes it make sense honestly I'm I'm very happy with that episode because it really may be understand the importance of the circumcised verses on circumcised and why it matters
29:47 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_00]: to give it a listen if he didn't.
29:49 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was good stuff.
29:51 --> 29:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:52 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So then Manolea shows up and he out bids Jason for the priesthood.
29:57 --> 29:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Damn it.
29:58 --> 29:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
29:58 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
29:59 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so now we've got full on chaos.
30:02 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we've got bribery murder, temple money theft, political intrigue.
30:06 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Naya's the third ends up murdered.
30:08 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_00]: What?
30:09 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
30:09 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like I'm sorry.
30:10 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, who was he again?
30:11 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_00]: No?
30:12 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_01]: He was the original
30:15 --> 30:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, but I had to like scroll back up and be like, it was probably causing problems like these fuckers aren't real.
30:22 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're not really the fucking high priest exactly.
30:25 --> 30:27 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, I'm like, please.
30:27 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're like, the hell you say.
30:29 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So they fucking killed them.
30:30 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
30:31 --> 30:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this internal corruption is emphasized much more in second macabees than in first macmees, make me mega doodles.
30:41 --> 30:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
30:41 --> 30:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is to say that this shit did appear in First Macadoodle.
30:46 --> 30:46 [SPEAKER_01]: It did.
30:47 --> 30:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It did.
30:47 --> 30:50 [SPEAKER_01]: They mostly just talked about how they were corrupted and they killed them.
30:50 --> 30:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
30:51 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's much more dramatized in Second Macadoodle.
30:54 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
30:54 --> 30:57 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't spend nearly this amount of time on this time period either.
30:57 --> 30:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't get a whole chapter over it.
30:59 --> 30:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
31:00 --> 31:01 [SPEAKER_00]: That is sure.
31:01 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_00]: The big theological message in this chapter is that the crisis wasn't just about foreign oppression, like it was in the previous chapter.
31:10 --> 31:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It was about people that were trying to oppress and steal their gold and all that.
31:15 --> 31:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
31:15 --> 31:19 [SPEAKER_00]: This is about internal unfaithfulness to God.
31:19 --> 31:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
31:19 --> 31:23 [SPEAKER_01]: It was internal though, but with with help from the outside still.
31:23 --> 31:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
31:24 --> 31:29 [SPEAKER_00]: But people within are selling the high priesthood.
31:29 --> 31:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
31:29 --> 31:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're selling the the power and they're selling basically like tickets to the God show.
31:37 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:38 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:38 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So the idea in this chapter, chapter four, is that corrupt Jewish leadership invites disaster.
31:47 --> 31:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And that happens.
31:49 --> 31:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
31:49 --> 31:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So like in the previous chapter, they were being oppressed from outside forces.
31:53 --> 31:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why God showed up with his on his horse with his angels and beat the fuck out of.
31:58 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, right.
31:59 --> 32:00 [SPEAKER_00]: What's his but healyos.
32:00 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:01 --> 32:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, here they're doing it to themselves.
32:05 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, without side help, but instead of like standing firm and being martyrs and, you know, making the right choices even in the face of potential death.
32:15 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
32:15 --> 32:25 [SPEAKER_00]: they sell out and they don't stay in firm and so what happens when they don't do that again it invites disaster.
32:25 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so that's chapter four.
32:29 --> 32:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, now we move into chapter five.
32:31 --> 32:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay?
32:31 --> 32:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
32:32 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_00]: In this one, the theme is about how and Tyke has basically goes nuts.
32:38 --> 32:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay?
32:38 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, whaah!
32:40 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, chapter five of second macabees strongly overlaps with first macabees chapter one.
32:48 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is like where we actually start to join in on like, oh, okay, and I remember when we were reading this chapter, we were like, oh, we're finally actually it's stuff I remember.
33:00 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they started talking about Judas back at B.S.
33:04 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_01]: and different things like that.
33:05 --> 33:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's like our our macabens.
33:09 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
33:10 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
33:10 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:11 --> 33:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:11 --> 33:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So rumors have spread that and take as the fourth died in Egypt.
33:17 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
33:17 --> 33:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Jason, therefore, tries to retake Jerusalem by force.
33:23 --> 33:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
33:23 --> 33:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey.
33:24 --> 33:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And Tyke gets returns very much alive.
33:26 --> 33:28 [SPEAKER_01]: That's problematic.
33:28 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Boom, it's of my demise, right?
33:31 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:31 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's fucking furious.
33:33 --> 33:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, as you would be, if people are like, hey, I heard he's dead.
33:37 --> 33:42 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not gonna mind if I take his, I don't know, hat, right?
33:42 --> 33:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
33:42 --> 33:43 [SPEAKER_00]: and all his shit.
33:43 --> 33:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
33:44 --> 33:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:44 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So he attacks Jerusalem brutally.
33:47 --> 33:52 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, take my shit, take my goal, take my city, take my stuff.
33:52 --> 33:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
33:53 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So he kills thousands, he loops the temple himself, and he steals sacred vessels.
34:01 --> 34:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny that God didn't stop him from leaving the temple.
34:04 --> 34:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, but because they had sold out, they invited them.
34:09 --> 34:10 [SPEAKER_01]: They had it coming, I guess, right?
34:10 --> 34:11 [SPEAKER_00]: They had it coming.
34:12 --> 34:21 [SPEAKER_00]: God was like, you probably should have not sold out that basically invited this guy to come in.
34:21 --> 34:25 [SPEAKER_00]: But even if it didn't invite him, still, why should I help you?
34:26 --> 34:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess.
34:27 --> 34:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying I agree with it.
34:29 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying that's the reasoning in the book is that's why they lost because of chapter four.
34:35 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:36 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_00]: There are actions that have to be in the end.
34:37 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_01]: That every time God doesn't get involved.
34:39 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_00]: They have fucked themselves.
34:40 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah.
34:42 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So this chapter corresponds directly to first macabees, chapter one versus 20 through 28.
34:49 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
34:51 --> 34:54 [SPEAKER_00]: But second macabees adds a total theological spin.
34:55 --> 34:59 [SPEAKER_00]: This specifically happened because of Jewish sin, which I just said.
34:59 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And God allowed it temporarily as discipline.
35:03 --> 35:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's like a whole thing about it.
35:05 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Like they talk about it.
35:07 --> 35:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's supposed to be like a,
35:11 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about this before too though.
35:12 --> 35:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, you're allowing these people to murder thousands.
35:16 --> 35:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're telling me that all of those people were bad.
35:19 --> 35:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's a really rough lesson.
35:22 --> 35:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I didn't get behind the priest person was bad, right?
35:26 --> 35:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But I have a struggle with believing that like, all the people that died were bad.
35:31 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that that means what you think it means, God, I'm not taking away what you want me to take away from that because you're going to say it's the bigger picture and I'm going to say no child is part of a bigger picture.
35:47 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Each child is a child at the end of the day.
35:49 --> 35:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:50 --> 35:55 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like let's talk about the fucking Epstein files for a minute.
35:55 --> 36:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care that, but if we, if we release all of them so many people will get hurt, like, um, yes, let us hurt the pedophiles.
36:06 --> 36:07 [SPEAKER_00]: That is correct.
36:07 --> 36:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
36:07 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, um, let us make all of the right or the left, I don't fucking care, like each child harmed matters.
36:17 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not just like a drop in the bucket.
36:20 --> 36:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, right.
36:21 --> 36:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm sorry, your message is not getting
36:25 --> 36:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
36:26 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like, um, what is it called innocent by standards that are harmed just like Ricochet, like whatever the fuck that is, um, I don't, I'm not here for that.
36:39 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
36:39 --> 36:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, let's just not.
36:42 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So anti-acoust punishes Jerusalem violently, is the main thing that happens in that chapter.
36:48 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
36:49 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're supposed to be late.
36:51 --> 36:51 [UNKNOWN]: Hmm.
36:51 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, while they shouldn't, they should have just took care of their shit.
36:55 --> 36:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I guess, I'm not here for it.
36:59 --> 37:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I still struggle with when the guy, when the group people go out to the forest to hide from people, because they're getting murdered.
37:06 --> 37:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're following their tenants of God, right?
37:10 --> 37:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
37:10 --> 37:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Not going to fight on the Sabbath.
37:12 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:13 --> 37:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they die.
37:14 --> 37:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:15 --> 37:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, where were you then, then God?
37:16 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:17 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_00]: What about having there?
37:21 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_00]: by not defending themselves.
37:22 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_01]: They did, so where was God?
37:24 --> 37:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
37:25 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, hmm, again, I don't think, I don't think, somebody else would be like, they had to die in order for it to spur the revolution and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
37:43 --> 37:47 [SPEAKER_00]: What if what if God just, you know, didn't worry about war?
37:48 --> 37:53 [SPEAKER_00]: What if God just made people, what if God can change people's heart to ignore kind of shit?
37:53 --> 37:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's just going to go there.
37:54 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Why, why, why are we going to do all this shit?
37:56 --> 38:00 [SPEAKER_00]: What if God was like, y'all people cannot fucking get along.
38:00 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just going to put giant mountains that can't be crossed until you can get your shit together and figure your, your things out.
38:06 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:07 --> 38:08 [SPEAKER_00]: The y'all are stupid.
38:08 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you what, God.
38:10 --> 38:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I will believe in you if you can get Trump to admit that he's in the Epstein family did wrong and that he is absolutely guilty on public TV.
38:18 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_01]: How's that?
38:19 --> 38:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, you can make him do that, right?
38:22 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_00]: As for me, he can make shit disappear, right?
38:25 --> 38:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So as for me, I'll be a big fan of God.
38:30 --> 38:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, we recently watched this huge, um, expose on nuclear bombs.
38:37 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_00]: by Huston Manage and a lady that wrote a book about it.
38:41 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember her name, but it was an excellent piece.
38:46 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I have the book now on my TBR and I'll try to remember to send it to you to link as well as the interview.
38:52 --> 38:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:53 --> 38:53 [UNKNOWN]: Bye.
38:54 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, we are set up and by we kind of mean the planet, specifically America, but basically the planet is set up so that if one person sends a nuclear weapon at anybody, like the instant reaction is fire everything back now, ask questions later after it's too late, because we already bombed the fuck out of them.
39:16 --> 39:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And oh, now that we've already bombed the fuck out of them, I guess we're open to anybody else that wants to bomb us because we've already
39:22 --> 39:26 [SPEAKER_00]: already fired our arsenals so okay everybody's fucked now we just all ruin the planet.
39:26 --> 39:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Then the status quo for a long time mutually assured destruction.
39:29 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Right except that it's not working because we have fucking crazy people in charge.
39:34 --> 39:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Well yeah that's been that's always that was always going to be the problem.
39:38 --> 39:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Right exactly.
39:40 --> 39:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you want me to actually be like this huge believer in magic,
39:46 --> 39:51 [SPEAKER_00]: How about if you fucking magic nuclear weapons off the goddamn planet?
39:51 --> 39:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That would be awesome wouldn't it?
39:52 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_00]: As long as we're gonna dream less dream big.
39:54 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:54 --> 39:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I want big magic.
39:56 --> 39:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I want big, huge, obvious magic.
39:59 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_00]: The buttons go awry, the bombs are gone.
40:02 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:02 --> 40:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And by gone, I don't mean that they like got sent to blow up the sun or another planet.
40:08 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they disappear because God can do these things in your little imaginary religion story.
40:16 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
40:17 --> 40:19 [SPEAKER_00]: God is big enough to make things disappear.
40:19 --> 40:23 [SPEAKER_01]: The fuck Pluto movement just like cinema out there and Pluto.
40:23 --> 40:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't hurt Pluto.
40:25 --> 40:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I am absolutely not for hurting Pluto.
40:36 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so this book so far.
40:38 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:39 --> 40:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Second macabees, even though we're only five chapters in, it feels, it's gonna save real quick.
40:44 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It would solve the problem whether or not it's a planet.
40:46 --> 40:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, I'm just saying it.
40:48 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It would be nothing.
40:49 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It would wipe that discussion right off the face of this relationship.
40:52 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_00]: You need to stop.
40:53 --> 40:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like this is rude to Pluto.
40:55 --> 40:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Pluto is not here to defend itself.
40:58 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like where this is going.
41:00 --> 41:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going back.
41:03 --> 41:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, sorry, go back to the, yeah.
41:04 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So, second macavis, fuck you.
41:08 --> 41:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why I feel like so emotionally protective of Pluto, but.
41:13 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I got to get away from this once.
41:15 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be dead or you can take it away again.
41:17 --> 41:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Probably that's it.
41:19 --> 41:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, right.
41:20 --> 41:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we're only five chapters into second macavis.
41:23 --> 41:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And it just feels like we're all over the place.
41:27 --> 41:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Like what even?
41:27 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it does.
41:28 --> 41:29 [SPEAKER_00]: What's going on?
41:29 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So, my head's spinning for sure.
41:31 --> 41:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it starts with letters that are unrelated to the plot.
41:36 --> 41:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It jumps backward from where we had started to Persian era legends.
41:41 --> 41:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:41 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Like legends, like what the fuck?
41:43 --> 41:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
41:44 --> 41:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It retails events that we literally just read in first macabees.
41:47 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:48 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, then it adds like these crazy, magical miracle stories that we're like, whoa, that came out of nowhere.
41:56 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_00]: What the fuck?
41:57 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:57 --> 41:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, god on a horse.
41:59 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's just crazy.
42:02 --> 42:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But it also is problematic because it assumes that the reader already knows the solicit tolamic political world, which we really know a little bit of because of how hard we've tried to understand this and how we've
42:21 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_00]: try to like look at me what was happening what else was going on like some of our grease baby like the deep dive there and uh what was going on in the world as these things were happening like those questions that we asked to try to understand but this assumes you already know it as part of your like everyday knowledge you're not having to look it up and ask the questions
42:49 --> 42:53 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, over here in America, we don't say the American Civil War.
42:53 --> 42:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We just say, you know, the Civil War, right?
42:56 --> 42:57 [SPEAKER_00]: We know what we're talking about.
42:57 --> 42:59 [SPEAKER_01]: We talked about this a while back.
42:59 --> 43:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Our podcast at some point where we feel like God should have come down and like revisit the Bible every, you know, a couple hundred years maybe or something.
43:06 --> 43:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Just to re-up it, you know?
43:08 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:09 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:09 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got a new version of that book.
43:11 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what colors your pair should every five years?
43:13 --> 43:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Or something, you know?
43:14 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm maybe even more than that.
43:15 --> 43:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that comes out every year.
43:17 --> 43:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, every year.
43:17 --> 43:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever.
43:18 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Pretty sure there's a condition where you graduate.
43:20 --> 43:22 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a new fucking additional time.
43:22 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, your cheese, I don't fucking know.
43:24 --> 43:26 [SPEAKER_01]: We get new versions of these things.
43:26 --> 43:29 [SPEAKER_01]: They update all the time, but the Bible been the same for, but never.
43:30 --> 43:44 [SPEAKER_00]: There are college textbooks where you're taking a two-part course, you're taking part one in fall semester and then part two in the winter spring semester, right?
43:44 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And the textbook covers both semesters, right?
43:48 --> 43:57 [SPEAKER_00]: you buy it in the fall for fall semester and it is already you have to buy the next addition.
43:57 --> 43:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
43:57 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Even though your book still is brand-fucking new.
44:01 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
44:02 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Pour the next semester for part two of the glass.
44:05 --> 44:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't we have like God showing up in gold armor now in this guy?
44:08 --> 44:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Like if somebody could get a picture of that that would that would be down with that.
44:12 --> 44:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that would go
44:14 --> 44:21 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like the black I'd have to verify that the picture was correct and everything, but like, you know, I mean we've got some crazy AI happening.
44:23 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying he can't just he just trust your eyes anymore.
44:24 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
44:25 --> 44:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, that reminds me like I was watching this YouTuber talking about a book and she had a cool sweatshirt on and had like all these books on it and stuff because it was a book tube.
44:35 --> 44:35 [SPEAKER_00]: thing.
44:36 --> 44:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's talking about some controversial book material, right?
44:40 --> 44:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I go down into the comments because there's always some like fascinating discussion too and for and everyone's from all there's an asshole that's like, oh, touch grills.
44:49 --> 44:53 [SPEAKER_00]: This whole discussion is stupid and we're all like, don't let the door hit you blah blah blah.
44:53 --> 44:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
44:53 --> 44:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Great.
44:53 --> 45:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And then randomly, somebody's like, I hate to be quote-unquote that person, but you're sweatshirt, while I love it, the image is actually AI.
45:03 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know that you're like an artist, so you're anti-AI, so I thought you would probably want to know.
45:09 --> 45:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
45:11 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, so I'm so sorry to be that person.
45:14 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like so weird that it was so out of, like, context, like it wasn't even part of the
45:22 --> 45:31 [SPEAKER_00]: God, AI's everywhere, and so, you know, why can't AI rewrite the Bible and give us pictures of God on a horse?
45:31 --> 45:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, absolutely good.
45:32 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But better.
45:33 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely good.
45:34 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_01]: But better.
45:34 --> 45:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It could.
45:36 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It surprises me that no new religions have come up with a better
45:41 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_00]: A. I.
45:41 --> 45:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Written Bible.
45:42 --> 45:44 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
45:44 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Like Adam and Eve, but how it like really could have happened with the A. I's helped to rewrite it in a better way.
45:52 --> 45:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
45:53 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Like not that I believe in Adam and Eve at all or magic or.
45:59 --> 46:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I will say I really love the reimagining of of Moses in the Promised Land shows that on YouTube.
46:06 --> 46:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the YouTube show.
46:07 --> 46:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God.
46:08 --> 46:09 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll need to watch that.
46:09 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not really that disrespectful.
46:12 --> 46:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not it's not that it's sacrilegious, but it's not that it's not sacrilegious.
46:19 --> 46:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:19 --> 46:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It basically, you can tell that it's written by people who really know their source material.
46:24 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_00]: They really read the Bible.
46:26 --> 46:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
46:27 --> 46:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:28 --> 46:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's fucking fantastic.
46:29 --> 46:34 [SPEAKER_00]: The characters and the characters who aren't there that are referenced.
46:34 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:35 --> 46:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the office with, you know, Old Testament.
46:37 --> 46:41 [SPEAKER_00]: That's literally the description of it is the office.
46:41 --> 46:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
46:41 --> 46:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Like Moses is always talking about his wife's upbeat.
46:46 --> 46:46 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
46:46 --> 46:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And like he's always asking where his sons are because, you know, in the Bible, they mentioned once and then never again.
46:53 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he's she's always like, oh, they've run off those scamps.
46:59 --> 47:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it's really fucking good.
47:01 --> 47:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:02 --> 47:03 [SPEAKER_00]: You guys should totally watch that show.
47:03 --> 47:05 [SPEAKER_00]: The Promised Land on YouTube.
47:05 --> 47:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:05 --> 47:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Holarious.
47:06 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_00]: We're happy for the next season.
47:08 --> 47:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, so it, um, second macabees is really weird and it assumes that you know all this history.
47:15 --> 47:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
47:15 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, just like Americans assume that the whole planet should speak English for them.
47:19 --> 47:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, this assumes that you just better than the Super Bowl halftime show.
47:23 --> 47:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
47:24 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll put those people honestly.
47:26 --> 47:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And also something that I didn't realize another thing adding to the confusion is second macabees in particular, it's written in a very Greek rhetorical style and it's not Hebrew historical style.
47:43 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So good writing style is different.
47:45 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and the history seems very revolved around Greek history, not Jewish history.
47:52 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So that is one of the things that kind of caught me off-guard with regard to this book.
47:56 --> 47:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
47:57 --> 48:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this feels like something that was more derived from the Greek influence into Christianity than anything else.
48:06 --> 48:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It seems like it was told by the Greek Jews after the diaspora rather than the Jerusalem Jews like before or during the diaspora.
48:20 --> 48:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah.
48:21 --> 48:26 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a looking back and re-examining type situation and and injecting God.
48:26 --> 48:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean when you realize where it was or where when it actually
48:35 --> 48:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was way after the Babylonian exile.
48:39 --> 48:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it makes total sense.
48:42 --> 48:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But all of that combines to make it just a very, very confusing piece and we're only five chapters in.
48:49 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So I assume it's only gonna get worse.
48:52 --> 48:53 [SPEAKER_01]: No, we definitely needed this.
48:53 --> 48:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
48:53 --> 48:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you and I was definitely needed for this.
48:55 --> 49:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it helped me understand what happened in each chapter, but I don't feel like it helped me understand, okay.
49:01 --> 49:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So five chapters in, here's where we are.
49:03 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's not really a coherent message, but we're just kind of we're going through the book and and maybe it'll get a little bit more cohesive as it goes along, but right now it's kind of a back and forth print a few things.
49:14 --> 49:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't think that we're missing a lot.
49:17 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_01]: We're just it is what it is and that's kind of part of what was confusing us.
49:20 --> 49:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
49:22 --> 49:29 [SPEAKER_01]: But I am glad we cover that because that that cleared up some things for me at least and helps me understand what we have read a little bit better.
49:29 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_00]: and helps me understand the historical context of the events that they're talking about, the ones that actually happened anyway, or the things that they're referencing, but I'm still lost, but I kind of live in that state, I think, so they can't be helped.
49:47 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So that was our Q&A for today.
49:49 --> 49:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, let's play!
49:51 --> 50:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Q&A Saturday, and we will be back soon with the next chapter of 2nd MacBees, which will be 2nd Maccadudos chapter 6, and don't forget to join us live on Discord every Tuesday night at 10pm Eastern.
50:08 --> 50:11 [SPEAKER_01]: There's always a link in the show notes to go and check that out.
50:11 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And we'd love to have you there.
50:12 --> 50:15 [SPEAKER_01]: You just kind of kind of, you got to bear with us for a little bit.
50:15 --> 50:19 [SPEAKER_01]: You just got to get them there and just say, hi, we'll do the rest.
50:19 --> 50:19 [SPEAKER_00]: The math.
50:19 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Two things is that with regard to the, the lives on Tuesday, you don't have to have read the old Testament, like you don't have to be current in the podcast, because we've turned the Tuesdays into just like random deep life topics, like one office.
50:36 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:36 --> 50:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So, which makes it fun for everybody.
50:38 --> 50:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, join wherever you are.
50:40 --> 50:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so if you got a friend that wants to join, too, you should tell them to come on over.
50:44 --> 50:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Because there won't be necessarily something that you won't have to, you won't have to be caught up with us.
50:49 --> 50:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
50:49 --> 50:50 [SPEAKER_01]: To enjoy it.
50:50 --> 50:51 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I know.
50:51 --> 50:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I know.
50:52 --> 51:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying again, you know, I'm glad that we have somebody to man's blame that's that's what I'm here Right, so that was the first point the second point is that even if you show a blade It's at 10 Eastern, but we don't actually start the podcast proper until at least 10 30 sometimes even 11
51:13 --> 51:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But we do have fun starting at 10 o'clock.
51:15 --> 51:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we start.
51:16 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Even if you can't make the later bit, you can come in and just chat for a bit.
51:19 --> 51:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we just chat with everybody.
51:21 --> 51:28 [SPEAKER_00]: We just hang and figure out who all's gonna be there before we actually start the podcast proper recording.
51:28 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like our favorite thing about our podcast.
51:31 --> 51:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Hangin' out with everybody.
51:32 --> 51:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's great.
51:33 --> 51:34 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a lot of fun.
51:34 --> 51:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So do that.
51:35 --> 51:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can live correct my mispronunciation and answer my, who was that or what part of Bible was that in?
51:42 --> 51:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Which we always ask a question and if you are the one who offers information, we will call you up in the middle of our fucking podcast.
51:51 --> 51:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
51:52 --> 51:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Good stuff.
51:52 --> 51:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Join history, you know?
51:54 --> 51:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
51:54 --> 51:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, thanks for joining us here and we will see you guys next time.
51:58 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
