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[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Sacrilegious Discourse.
[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: For this is what the Sovereign Lord says!
[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Why do you need prophets to tell people who you are and what you want?
[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_00]: If you can justify everything that the God of the Bible has done,
[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: then you can justify any of your behavior.
[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of this mentality is trickling into
[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_01]: what is now mainstream right wing Christianity.
[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I am capable of empathy greater than this God of the Bible.
[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a Bible that they tell kids this is the good Lord,
[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_01]: this is the good book.
[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_01]: He is fantasizing about murder, mass murder.
[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Head over to sacrilegiousdiscourse.com right now to find out how to leave us a review
[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_01]: or support us on Patreon.
[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Alright so we are in our special Patreon episode.
[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And we are doing... I don't know what you're going to call this one.
[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't sure either. I just put a kind of a placeholder name.
[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So here's the title that I have in my document that I'm referencing.
[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Intersex, trans, are they the same? Different? Why it matters?
[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And it really depends whom you ask.
[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Jesus that is a long fucking title.
[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_01]: That is not SEO friendly.
[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: No it is not.
[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Like that wasn't even fit like in a social media post.
[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: No. But it fit on my document and it made me happy.
[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_01]: As long as it makes you happy.
[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Everything.
[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_01]: That's all it really matters.
[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_00]: At this point in my life I only do things that make me happy.
[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Well I mean that's debatable based on the last couple of weeks.
[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. Yes. But that happened to me. Did I do it? It happened to me.
[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Alright okay.
[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay so here's the story.
[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So your mom, that's how it starts.
[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: My mother.
[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Your mom whom I love and adore actually.
[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_00]: She sends me... I don't know what they're called on Facebook.
[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Like on YouTube they're called Shorts.
[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh sure just call them Shorts.
[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Shorts whatever they're called.
[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Short form video.
[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah short form video.
[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Right but these are the ones specifically from Facebook.
[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay and I have been grounded by you with my permission from Facebook for literal years now.
[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I have a problem.
[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a fucking train wreck watching you try to do Facebook.
[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_00]: No it's not because I'm incapable like I'm not...
[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: No yeah no it's not...
[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Social media impaired.
[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I have an emotional problem where I cannot disengage or disallow myself from becoming overly intensely involved.
[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And it impacts my life.
[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_00]: My mental health.
[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_00]: My mental health, my life.
[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I stay up all night.
[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I engage in arguments.
[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I post rants and then it starts to...
[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_01]: You stay angry throughout the rest of the day?
[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I stay constantly angry.
[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen our relationship at one point years ago.
[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_01]: No years ago.
[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Years ago.
[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: But like it had to end.
[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you had to stop.
[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Right so I always describe it as an alcoholic walking into a bar and being expected not
[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: to drink.
[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_01]: No that's exactly what it was with you.
[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You couldn't stop.
[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I have tried very hard to stay off of Facebook.
[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was really appreciative when Facebook brought the Messenger app where you could talk to people
[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_00]: you could chat with them through a separate app.
[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to chat with them specifically in Facebook now.
[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_01]: To be fair I don't think it's just Facebook.
[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's social media in general.
[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It is because I got that way with Twitter briefly and then he sold it to Elon and
[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like oh thank god it sucks now.
[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was able to wean myself off of that fairly easily.
[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But during the Black Lives Matter marches and the stuff in Portland, Oregon I was like up
[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_00]: all night following that on Twitter.
[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah like I just have a social media problem like I cannot separate myself from what's
[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: happening in the world.
[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Whether it's people I know or a problem.
[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: You are a very empathetic person.
[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And when you see an injustice or you see something happening you get emotionally involved
[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: in it.
[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Right then and there.
[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you continue down that path until it resolves which unfortunately for you they
[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: never resolve.
[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Well and also part of the autism thing that I have come to realize very much defines me
[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: as an adult is having a quote unquote special interest that you really focus on.
[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And so when I am engaged emotionally in a particular social media event, problem,
[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: person, whatever.
[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: That becomes my sole focus.
[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: My special interest is that thing.
[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And I have to be drawn away from it.
[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So all of that to say I don't mean to go to Facebook but your mom sends me these
[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_00]: shorts.
[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Via text that then open up Facebook.
[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So and they're usually like really cute shorts, whatever.
[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But every once in a while now because my Facebook is open I'll just scroll through
[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: my feed and just catch up.
[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And usually I only check to see what my best friend is doing, see pictures of her little
[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: family and maybe a couple other people.
[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Well on this particular occasion I tripped over a curb so to speak.
[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_00]: A writerly friend of mine whom I know from a different incident that I was involved
[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_00]: in which I will only say.
[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_01]: That should be a story at some other point.
[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_01]: That was an interesting story actually.
[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm still known to the this day by some convention route people as chain mail girl.
[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So.
[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Wife shut down a convention.
[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I won't say I shut it.
[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: It was already on its way down.
[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I was the nail in the coffin.
[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Chain mail girl.
[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Hold that in your head for a later.
[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway so this guy he's really awesome.
[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: He's an ally to every group that is oppressed and needs representation.
[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: He's a voice for feminists.
[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: He's a voice for Black Lives Matter.
[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_00]: He's a voice for the LGBTQ community.
[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I totally adore him.
[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_00]: How I met him was that he stood up for me during the chain mail girl incident.
[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And just he's a wonderful human being.
[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Never met him in person.
[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And I know exactly who you're talking about.
[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And there was a lot of like at the time you were running a and I was
[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: helping you run that but it was our last it was our first venture
[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: into social media.
[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I was running a blog.
[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: It was running a blog.
[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And you caught a lot of positive and also a lot of flak for something
[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_01]: you wrote.
[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Which was just a story about what happened at this convention.
[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_00]: That I didn't even know was a story.
[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And this guy was fantastic.
[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And anyway we'll leave it at that for now.
[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: This guy was awesome.
[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: That's all I'm trying to say.
[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, yes.
[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So he was having a conversation on Facebook that I had no right
[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: to see but it's your mom's fault that I saw it husband.
[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: With a trans person.
[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And it just opened this whole interesting conversation that I
[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: just really wanted to talk about.
[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But in order to do that I have to explain the situation some.
[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And the best way to do that really is to just read you part
[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: of it.
[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So here's what he posted on Facebook.
[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Read the text.
[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_00]: High school biology was the simplified version.
[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And then that's what he wrote and then follows is a post about
[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_00]: biological sex written by a person who is a biologist and an
[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_00]: assistant professor at the University of North Carolina in
[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Asheville.
[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So here's what she just for the record our thoughts go out
[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_01]: to those Nashville right now.
[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so sorry.
[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even yeah.
[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Just since we mentioned the city.
[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I know there's a lot of.
[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Hurricaney stuff happening down there.
[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely hope everybody's doing okay down there.
[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So she what he had posted was an article that she had
[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_00]: written.
[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm going to read her article.
[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And feel free to chime in throughout if you need to.
[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: She wrote friendly neighborhood biologist here.
[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I see a lot of people are talking about biological sexes
[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and gender right now.
[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking right now you mean what for the last 10
[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_00]: 15 years.
[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Loud and proud or like right now today like what do you
[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_00]: mean right now but anyway this is a good article I don't
[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_00]: know why.
[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway.
[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Lots of folks make biological sex seem really simple.
[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Well since it's so simple let's find the biological roots
[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_00]: shall we.
[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about sex a thread.
[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_00]: If you know a bit about biology you will probably say
[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: that biological sex is caused by chromosomes X X and
[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_00]: you're a female X Y and you're a male boom this is
[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_00]: chromosomal sex.
[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_00]: What is it biological sex.
[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Well turns out there is only one gene on the Y chromosome
[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_00]: that really matters to sex.
[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's called the S R Y gene during human embryonic
[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_00]: development the SRI protein turns on male associated
[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_00]: genes.
[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Having an S R gene makes you quote unquote genetically
[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_00]: male but is this biological sex.
[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes that SRI gene pops off the Y chromosome and
[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: lands over on the X chromosome.
[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Surprise.
[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So now you've got an X with an S R Y and a Y without
[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_00]: an S R Y.
[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: What does that mean.
[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_00]: A Y without S R Y means physically or female
[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_00]: chromosomally your male because X Y and genetically
[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_00]: male because S R Y.
[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_00]: An X with an S R Y means you're physically male
[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: chromosomally female because X X and genetically male
[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_00]: because S R Y.
[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But biological sex is simple.
[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's what people would say right.
[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean if you pay attention to that.
[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: There must be another answer.
[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_00]: She goes on to say.
[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Sex related genes ultimately turn on hormones in
[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: specific areas on the body and reception of those
[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: hormones by cells throughout the body.
[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Is this the hormones the root of biological sex.
[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Hormonal male means you produce normal quote unquote
[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: normal levels of male associated hormones except
[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_00]: dot dot dot some percentage of females will have
[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_00]: higher levels of male quote unquote hormones
[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_00]: than some percentage of males even.
[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Ditto ditto for female hormones which segue
[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: outside of this for a second we literally just saw
[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: this during the Olympics when a superior strong
[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_00]: female boxer was accused by everybody on the right
[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_00]: of being a trans male that was quote unquote
[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_00]: beating up other females and they were like
[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_00]: but she clearly is a boy and they're like so.
[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But she was born female and she's fighting in
[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_00]: a female fight and that's like exactly following
[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_00]: the rules that you Christians have presented.
[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But that just points directly to their.
[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Hypocrisy.
[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Ignorance.
[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's more about their take on what they view.
[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Once you look like a boy,
[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_01]: A woman is a woman is a woman is a woman is a woman is.
[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_01]: What a woman is.
[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So basically if you look girly and we don't know
[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and you don't tell us what's between your legs
[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_00]: then we will allow you to pass but we just
[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_00]: don't ever wanna know.
[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you look girly.
[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you look like a real Chad man of a man man,
[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Then that's fine too. You're a man, right?
[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But if you're a girl who looks boy or a boy who looks girl and you want to go either way, we don't like that, right?
[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_00]: We don't like going against how we want to see and by all of these terms when I say looks like acts like whatever
[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I am using that term very stereotypically. Sure. I don't really think that there is any one way that a
[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_00]: quote-unquote female should act or look or think and the same for male.
[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I honestly think that there's not really a good
[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: distinguishing mark for a lot of people that you can say this person is definitely male. This person is definitely female, right?
[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's it
[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_01]: but there is a group
[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_01]: that is hard to distinguish
[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_01]: visually, right? Yeah, and we get into that some more too. Whether it's male or female or whether they go this way or that way
[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: sexually, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't. But that person can never win with the right because
[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: the right is always gonna be you know angry at them for not conforming to the...
[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Your appearance is wrong. You probably should just die. I mean, that's how they act because
[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: you know if you follow their rule out loud right now, which is you know if you were born with a vagina
[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care who you are what you look like and what you say you're a girl.
[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what they say. That's what they see but then this female boxer proves that that's not true because she was born a female always
[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: spot females
[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: was
[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_00]: defeated several times by other females, right?
[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So like I don't know what you want, but she doesn't look girly. The thing is they don't know what they want.
[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't know what they want either. They don't understand what they want. Right, right. So anyway to continue with this article
[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: hormonal male quote-unquote means you produce normal quote-unquote
[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: levels of male associated hormones
[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_00]: except some percentage of females like the boxer I was referencing will have higher levels of quote-unquote male hormones than
[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_01]: some percentage of males. I'm gonna call this episode quote-unquote
[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Quote-unquote, okay. Ditto ditto quote-unquote
[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_00]: female hormones and
[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_00]: if you're developing your body may not produce enough hormones for your genetic sex
[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's where we get into genetics leading you to be genetically male or female
[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_00]: chromosomally male or female
[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_00]: hormonally non-binary binary and physically non-binary
[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, that's not all because except some cells have something to say about this too.
[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you doing the math here? I mean
[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm struggling a little bit to keep up but it to me it ultimately doesn't matter right?
[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I
[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Accept people for who they are right exactly you don't have to qualify
[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where this article is going by me. So that's where this article is going
[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and we're gonna talk more about less the article and more a trans person's opinion on it and
[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: The conversation that ensued right okay. Yeah, so
[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_00]: This biologist goes on to say maybe cells are the answer to biological sex right
[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Cells have receptors that quote-unquote
[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Hear the signal from sex hormones, but sometimes those receptors don't work like a mobile phone
[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: That's on do not disturb call and call, but they will not answer right right. What does that mean?
[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It means that you may be
[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_00]: chromosomally male or female
[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_00]: genetically male or female
[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Male female or non binary with cells that may or may not hear the male female nine non binary call and
[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: All this leading to a body that can be male non binary or female
[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Try out some combinations for yourself notice how confusing it gets yeah
[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Can you point to what the absolute cause of biological sex is she asks in her article?
[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Right
[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it fair to judge people by it and this is like the best part of the article here that we're getting to okay
[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, of course you could try appealing to the numbers, but most people are either male or female you say
[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Except that as a biological professor
[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I will tell you the reason I don't have my students look at their own
[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Chromosome in class is because people could learn that their
[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Chromazominal sex doesn't match their physical sex and learning that in the middle of a ten-point assignment is just not the time
[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Biological sex is complicated before you discriminate against someone on the basis of quote-unquote
[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: biological sex and identity ask yourself have you seen your chromosomes?
[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know the genes of the people you love the hormones of the people you work with the state of their cells?
[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Since the answer will obviously be no
[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Please be kind respect people's right to tell you who they are and remember that you don't have all the answers
[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Again biology is complicated kindness and respect don't have to be right note
[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_00]: biological
[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Classifications exist xxx y xxx y xxx y y and all manner of variation
[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is why sex isn't classified as binary?
[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_00]: You can't have a binary classification system with more than two configurations
[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Even if two of those configurations are more common than others
[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Biology is a shit show be kind to people. That's the TLDR. I think you could have just
[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Skip to that right last yeah biology as a shit show or just be kind of people. Yeah. Yeah, honestly
[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Operating absolutely, you know, and that's that's where we've come
[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's where we have arrived right. We both have taken a circuitous route to get there and we were not always
[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_00]: The most informed or the most kind
[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: We were always kind to people, but then we would maybe ask each other questions and privacy sure and
[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the questions that we asked were not always sensitive. I think we were learning our way
[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_00]: We were learning. I'm just I'm trying to be transparent here and say like I wasn't born a fucking liberal
[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Who just came out being the nice person that I like to think I grew up in a world that was not tolerant of and that
[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Didn't know the vocabulary right right yeah, and not at all right
[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean LGBTQIA rights were not even something that was discussed when we were younger
[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean and we ain't that old. We're not that old. We're only in our late 40s. You know, we ain't that old
[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So the point of the matter is I I do have forgiveness
[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_00]: For people who are not there yet
[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But who who are asking the right questions and who want to be better like I think we are further along than your mom is
[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But your mom cares so fucking much
[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know what that's that's one of the most important aspects is caring
[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you have to give a shit have enough empathy and compassion to care about
[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Changing your yeah your outlook. Yeah
[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_01]: At the very least for someone you love right, you know exactly exactly very least and
[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Your mom is an example of somebody who?
[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Gets it wrong more often than we do and we get it wrong. I'm gonna say we always get it right
[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_00]: We get it wrong
[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_00]: We fuck up and she gets it wrong more often than we do and
[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Like us she gives a shit and wants to be better and is trying to be better ask the question
[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes to learn, you know yeah yeah
[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I just thought all of that was important to say before I get into the conversation that then ensued sure
[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. Yeah, so
[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a trans person
[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I will not say her name because I did not ask her permission
[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_00]: to repeat this conversation and
[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Again the conversation was intelligent and ended with us as all as friends
[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I don't I don't want anybody thinking that she's an asshole or anything
[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But she just she had opinions that I did not agree with and I'm gonna
[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Copy out this right up front. I think that they were valid opinions. Yes, and I think everybody had valid opinions
[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and that was the hardest part
[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_00]: That was the hardest part is that she had very valid opinions for who she wasn't where she was in her walk in life, right?
[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: But well, let me just get into it. Okay. Yeah, so she wrote to him
[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_00]: The important thing that people keep missing is quote biological sex isn't gender
[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_00]: This explanation is great for educating about
[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Intersex people who do have real problems with visibility and public understanding
[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But I keep seeing it passed around as transgender education and it isn't which she's right
[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, gender is even harder to define because it's partly
[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: sociological
[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Sociological sorry. I can't read anyway
[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It's partly sociological and partly innate personal feeling
[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Sis people often deny the innate part exists because they've never felt a mismatch between theirs and their social
[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Upbringing and that's why they keep confusing it with physical sex, right? And again, she's right. She's not wrong
[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, sure but
[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of misses some of the point of this which
[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_00]: My friend that originally posted all this gets into okay. He responded
[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So I look at posts like this as the first step in
[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Explicitly decoupling the false idea of gender being tied not only to biology
[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But a wrong idea of biology breaking the seal as it were but then again
[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also in the but all of this is only of academic interest
[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_00]: My friend wants to be called X, you know fill in the blank. Yeah, and that's all there is to it
[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Camp so that could also be why it's hitting me differently and I have to make a comment here because
[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_01]: While I don't understand everything about
[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Intersex or anything like that. I do understand that it is there and I understand and and I've used it, right?
[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I've used it in conversations. I actually have you present this
[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I had a boss and and a friend of mine
[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Who I worked with and and I present very much as a good old boy white, you know
[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Look in Christian small town boy if you didn't know me better
[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_01]: That's who you would think I would be just on first glance
[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You would probably assume that my dude is like in your little chump camp
[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_00]: with a
[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Pickup truck right right and he wants to pick up truck
[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But not have one and isn't but I wanted to pick up junk on the side of the road
[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_00]: No, you don't want the truck not hanging off the back or the gun rack. No no if I get a truck again
[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna make sure it has a bunch of liberal stickers on the back of it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's good
[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the only way I'm doing it. Yeah, but uh anyway
[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_01]: There's there's people out there that don't even understand that
[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Intersex is a thing that exists right they don't they don't they don't understand
[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: They don't know what the I stands for in LGBTQIA. They think that the whole thing is just a choice that somebody makes
[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_01]: They decide that they want to like to be they would that they want to be a different gender. Yeah
[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: They think the same thing about LGBTQIA across the board
[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if they don't like men and they're supposed to like men then they're obviously
[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Gay by choice if they if they're supposed to like women and they don't like women then they're obviously gay by choice
[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Right this these are the ideas that permeate the simpler cultures of you know
[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_01]: small town America right and
[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: The easiest way to break into that conversation is to use things like intersex say look
[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You say that this is the case but like here's an example
[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Science can prove you're absolutely wrong right off the bat. Just Google it. Yeah, right
[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I can I can jump right into a conversation with someone and use that as an example
[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_01]: To make them stop and think yeah
[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the point of presenting just a little bit of science right and it works
[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_00]: It worked it worked on your friend that you had a conversation with because he was completely unaware
[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Right and was like I had no idea. Yeah, and look
[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I know that that's not gonna always be the case and and also finding that person that's open to hearing that yeah on top of it
[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Not being the case that that's yeah, that's a special situation
[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Right and it was and and I have a unique position
[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: being able to
[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Be part of that group while not being part of that group
[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Where I can I can build a rapport with people and then use that rapport to kind of edge
[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_01]: My ideas in to their world view
[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the appeal with Tim Walls as
[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Kamala Harris's VP pick honestly because he is another good old boy. He likes, you know going hunting
[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_00]: He's got guns. He was a football coach in small town high school, you know
[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you aren't those things but you would relate to him
[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I used to go fishing all the time right boys cow
[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I grew up in a small town and and so when you are scouts
[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I you know, there's lots of that when you are this small town white guy and you have a voice to be
[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_00]: To hold your
[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: peers and neighbors and friends accountable and be able to say, you know, hey actually
[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I know that you think that I'm racist with you
[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But actually let me tell you a thing right or I know that you think that you know
[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny to make rape jokes about women, but let me tell you a thing right right, you know
[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I know that you think that trans people are yucky or what the fuck ever
[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_00]: But let me tell you a thing
[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It's an unfortunate state of our society where those conversations have to be had at all
[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_01]: but the only way to move somebody from this perspective to another is
[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: To first earn their trust on the the thought that you have a valid opinion
[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Right and that's hard to do in this society. Yeah, it's hard to have
[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Someone believe that you have a valid opinion. That's maybe worth listening to more than what they already know, right?
[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a hard place to find
[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a hard place to get a hold on someone right, you know in this day and age
[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Right
[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: so if you are that guy and the the guys guy and they look to you as their peer
[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_00]: That puts you in the really awesome
[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Scary unique position of having a voice that you can use right to represent other people
[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And I try to do that. Yeah, I mean you do your credit
[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You absolutely 100% do yeah, and you're nice about it like I'm an asshole. You are very patient
[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I am and I think that is wonderful
[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's one of my favorite things about you by the way as a human and as my partner
[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the other thing that wins me points is I'm willing to listen right they want to say their piece
[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm always willing to listen to it, and then I respond. Yeah
[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I say okay
[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, what do you think about that and then they tell me and I'm saying okay? Well, let's let's let's work this through
[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know I take the time to
[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_01]: You nicely take apart their conversation. You don't actually
[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Know yeah, which is what I would do because again, I'm an asshole
[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_00]: so anyway
[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_00]: he's like saying to
[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_00]: This girl, you know hey, so I use this as an example of
[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Just one thing like to just break the seal right
[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Want to hear something you won't hear anywhere else
[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: We're unlocking a secret world over here on our patreon where the stories get juicier and the laughs get louder
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