Daniel Chapters 10 - 12 Q&A: Bible Study by Atheists

[00:00:00] Welcome to Sacrilegious Discourse.

[00:00:01] For this is what the Sovereign Lord says!

[00:00:04] Why do you need prophets to tell people who you are and what you want?

[00:00:07] If you can justify everything that the God of the Bible has done, then you can justify any of your behavior.

[00:00:14] A lot of this mentality is trickling into what is now mainstream right-wing Christianity.

[00:00:20] I am capable of empathy greater than this God of the Bible.

[00:00:26] This is a Bible that they tell kids. This is the good Lord. This is the good book.

[00:00:32] He is fantasizing about murder, mass murder.

[00:00:37] Head over to SacrilegiousDiscourse.com right now to find out how to leave us a review or support us on Patreon.

[00:00:48] Wife!

[00:00:49] Uh, do you know what today we're doing?

[00:00:51] Do I know what today we're doing?

[00:00:54] Do you know what we're doing today?

[00:00:55] Yes, we are- we just finished with the regular book of Daniel.

[00:01:02] Mm-hmm.

[00:01:02] Um, but right now we're doing something that's not normally done on this day, and yet even with that it's doing- we're doing this a day late, which- this week's all kinds of fucked up.

[00:01:12] We're not doing it a day late. It would have gone out this morning.

[00:01:14] Well, we missed yesterday.

[00:01:14] We missed yesterday.

[00:01:15] No, it would have gone out this morning.

[00:01:17] Right.

[00:01:18] Well, it's by the time people see this, it will already be the next day.

[00:01:21] So, yeah.

[00:01:22] Got it.

[00:01:22] Still late.

[00:01:23] Yep.

[00:01:24] Okay.

[00:01:24] So, we're doing the-

[00:01:26] We are doing a Q&A, but only over three chapters, and it's not on Saturday, because it's about Daniel's final vision.

[00:01:37] Right.

[00:01:38] Yes.

[00:01:39] Yeah.

[00:01:41] Ah.

[00:01:41] Ah.

[00:01:42] Ah.

[00:01:42] So-

[00:01:43] Um, we're covering, um, Daniel chapters 10, 11, and 12, and answering some questions and making some sense out of that final vision, which was those three.

[00:01:54] My understanding is this is going to be a doozy.

[00:01:56] It really is, because we've got some dates and historical things that happened, and some answers to some of the questions we had, and et cetera.

[00:02:08] Suddenly, I'm also curious about the origin of the word doozy.

[00:02:11] Me too.

[00:02:12] I don't know why.

[00:02:12] But like, where the fuck did that come from?

[00:02:14] I don't know, but I said it over the weekend.

[00:02:16] Yeah.

[00:02:17] Because, oh, with regard to Project 2025.

[00:02:21] Yeah.

[00:02:22] Um, I said it's a doozy.

[00:02:23] And at the same time I said it, I was like, what is a doozy?

[00:02:27] Right.

[00:02:28] Yeah.

[00:02:28] Yeah.

[00:02:30] Weird.

[00:02:30] I'm just curious.

[00:02:31] We'll have to look that up at some point.

[00:02:33] Yes, we will have to do that.

[00:02:34] Yeah.

[00:02:35] All right.

[00:02:36] Are you ready to start the Q&A?

[00:02:37] Yeah.

[00:02:38] Let's do this.

[00:02:39] Okie dokie.

[00:02:45] All right.

[00:02:45] Let's hop into this Daniel vision.

[00:02:48] Okay.

[00:02:49] Okay.

[00:02:49] Yeah.

[00:02:49] So, in chapter 10, verse 1, it says, in the third year of Cyrus, king of Persia, a revelation

[00:02:57] was given to Daniel.

[00:02:59] Okay.

[00:02:59] Yeah.

[00:03:00] Just want to let you know that by this time the first wave of exiles had returned under

[00:03:05] the leadership of Zerubbabel.

[00:03:07] Okay.

[00:03:08] All right.

[00:03:08] And that was discussed in Ezra chapters 1 and 2.

[00:03:12] Got it.

[00:03:13] Yeah.

[00:03:13] So, we already kind of knew that, but don't always put these things together.

[00:03:18] Sure.

[00:03:18] And that's what I'm trying to do a little bit of here.

[00:03:21] Okay.

[00:03:21] So, verse 2 says, at that time I, Daniel, mourned for three weeks.

[00:03:26] And we were like, why the fucking mourning?

[00:03:28] That makes no fucking sense.

[00:03:30] He may have been in mourning because so few Jews have returned with Ezra from exile.

[00:03:37] Okay.

[00:03:37] And then one of our questions was, why didn't Daniel go back?

[00:03:41] Did he?

[00:03:41] He didn't.

[00:03:42] Because he was so old at that point.

[00:03:44] Got it.

[00:03:45] Okay.

[00:03:45] He didn't go back with Ezra's group of exiles because he was like 84 years old.

[00:03:48] Right.

[00:03:49] By then.

[00:03:49] Yeah.

[00:03:50] And not only that.

[00:03:51] Also, he was kind of powerful too.

[00:03:52] Yeah.

[00:03:52] And that was the other point.

[00:03:54] He could serve better from his high position in government than he could going back to Jerusalem.

[00:04:00] Right.

[00:04:00] So, he was old and in power.

[00:04:03] Sure.

[00:04:03] Okay.

[00:04:04] Now, here's another reason Daniel may have been in mourning.

[00:04:06] Okay.

[00:04:07] Because Ezra faced so much opposition in rebuilding the temple.

[00:04:12] Oh.

[00:04:13] Okay.

[00:04:13] So, I don't know.

[00:04:14] Those are various reasons why Dan I.L. might have been all crying.

[00:04:19] Got it.

[00:04:19] Okay.

[00:04:19] So, the short answer is we don't know for sure.

[00:04:22] Right.

[00:04:22] Okay.

[00:04:23] Exactly.

[00:04:23] Yeah.

[00:04:24] But he did have a lot to cry about.

[00:04:25] So, you know.

[00:04:26] Right.

[00:04:27] Could have been any or all of those things.

[00:04:28] Right.

[00:04:29] Right.

[00:04:29] Right.

[00:04:29] All right.

[00:04:29] Verse five says, I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen.

[00:04:34] Okay.

[00:04:34] Okay.

[00:04:35] So, here's the thing.

[00:04:36] When we were reading that, we were like, whoa, is it an angel?

[00:04:40] It's a shiny dude.

[00:04:41] What is he?

[00:04:42] And then, remember I told you at the time, some people say it's Jesus, even though Jesus hasn't

[00:04:47] been born yet.

[00:04:47] It's the God Jesus.

[00:04:49] Oh, is that one of the things?

[00:04:50] Some people.

[00:04:52] Some Christians.

[00:04:52] Okay.

[00:04:52] Yeah.

[00:04:53] They claim that this is Jesus.

[00:04:56] First, because he is shiny and special and he knows things about the future.

[00:04:59] Right?

[00:05:00] That's obvious.

[00:05:01] Okay.

[00:05:01] Another thing is because of a similar description of a shiny celestial dude in the book of Revelation.

[00:05:07] Ah.

[00:05:08] Okay.

[00:05:08] But here's the thing.

[00:05:09] This guy's like, I was held back by some other celestial being.

[00:05:14] Right?

[00:05:14] Yeah.

[00:05:14] And Jesus.

[00:05:15] No, it wasn't celestial being.

[00:05:17] It was the Persian king.

[00:05:18] Oh, Prince of Persia.

[00:05:19] Yeah.

[00:05:19] You're right.

[00:05:19] But Jesus wouldn't need the assistance of Michael, whereas our shiny guy does.

[00:05:25] Okay.

[00:05:25] Hypothetically.

[00:05:25] I don't know what makes Jesus strong.

[00:05:28] Like, cause it's God.

[00:05:30] Yeah.

[00:05:30] Cause Jesus is God and God can't possibly be held back by the Prince of Persia.

[00:05:35] Except that they killed Jesus.

[00:05:36] So he's not that strong.

[00:05:37] Well, Jesus hasn't been born yet.

[00:05:38] Right.

[00:05:39] But I'm saying.

[00:05:39] Also, but Jesus dying was part of God's ineffable plan.

[00:05:44] Sure.

[00:05:44] He came here to die.

[00:05:46] Him dying does not do a lot to claim that he is like, you know.

[00:05:50] Strong.

[00:05:50] Right.

[00:05:51] Well, I don't know.

[00:05:52] I'm just telling you what the notes.

[00:05:54] Okay.

[00:05:54] What I found.

[00:05:55] Okay.

[00:05:56] They're like, no, our shiny guy needs help.

[00:05:58] Jesus would never need help except for when he does.

[00:06:01] Okay.

[00:06:01] So again, more confusion.

[00:06:03] Right.

[00:06:03] So.

[00:06:04] Most likely it's some unnamed angel of very high rank, but not as high as Michael.

[00:06:10] Cause Michael's the one who helps them.

[00:06:11] But that can be detained by humans.

[00:06:13] Right.

[00:06:14] Yeah.

[00:06:16] Um, verse 13 says, but the prince of Persian kingdom of the Persian kingdom resisted me

[00:06:22] 21 days.

[00:06:23] Then Michael, one of the chief princes came to help me because I was detained there with

[00:06:28] the king of Persia.

[00:06:29] So this prince wasn't just an ordinary guy given that he could stand up to the angelic

[00:06:36] messenger.

[00:06:37] Right.

[00:06:37] God had sent to Daniel.

[00:06:38] Right.

[00:06:38] So if he could do that, he was not just a mere human.

[00:06:41] He clearly had some kind of magical or angelic being assisting him or was one himself.

[00:06:49] Okay.

[00:06:49] And since he was working against God's message, um, he was obviously some kind of evil or fallen

[00:06:56] angel.

[00:06:57] So some people would see this as like satanic forces.

[00:07:00] Yeah.

[00:07:01] People that are, if you're, um, studying the Bible and knowing the history of the world

[00:07:07] you're reading about, you might say that this is other gods.

[00:07:11] Yes.

[00:07:11] Right.

[00:07:11] Because that, that is a thing that kind of keeps popping up in the old Testament.

[00:07:16] Right.

[00:07:16] So whoever it was, um, I mean, whoever was the prince of Persia, I mean, clearly it was

[00:07:21] a human, I think.

[00:07:23] Yeah.

[00:07:23] Within the story though, was being assisted by some kind of evil forces that were trying

[00:07:28] to block the answer to Daniel's three weeks of prayer.

[00:07:32] I feel like the fact that this happened, right?

[00:07:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:07:35] If, if, if they're claiming that this celestial being got detained by the Prince of Persia,

[00:07:41] it kind of requires a little bit more explanation than the Bible gave it.

[00:07:45] Yeah.

[00:07:45] Right.

[00:07:45] I mean, like that's, it's so like we're randomly stuck in there.

[00:07:50] Right.

[00:07:50] So, I mean, like apologists are hypothesizing what the answer might be.

[00:07:54] Right.

[00:07:55] Right.

[00:07:55] Because there's not a lot to go on.

[00:07:57] Right.

[00:07:57] And, and they don't want to make God seem weak.

[00:08:00] So they're like, well, it could be this.

[00:08:02] It could be that.

[00:08:03] Well, and everything presupposes that the Israelites are the good guys.

[00:08:08] Sure.

[00:08:08] Yeah.

[00:08:09] Right.

[00:08:09] So, I mean, for all we know, the Israelites are actually the bad guys.

[00:08:13] I think sometimes they were.

[00:08:15] Oh yeah, definitely.

[00:08:16] Yeah.

[00:08:16] And maybe this angel was the fallen one.

[00:08:20] Mm-hmm.

[00:08:20] And like, I don't know, like our story is just from one perspective and maybe it's exactly

[00:08:27] the wrong perspective.

[00:08:28] Right.

[00:08:29] Like everybody thinks they're the hero of their own story.

[00:08:31] Right.

[00:08:32] Right.

[00:08:32] And, and to be fair, like, so to put this in like current context, right?

[00:08:37] Mm-hmm.

[00:08:37] I mean, there's not, you, you could, we, we talk about the politics in the Bible all

[00:08:42] the time.

[00:08:43] Yeah.

[00:08:43] Right.

[00:08:43] Yeah.

[00:08:44] And right now going on in Israel and in Palestine, there is the, you know, the Israelites

[00:08:53] are kind of the bad guys.

[00:08:54] Yeah.

[00:08:54] I know that, that whole scenario.

[00:08:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:08:57] Now I'm not saying that they started it.

[00:08:59] They didn't start it.

[00:09:00] Not this time.

[00:09:00] And they weren't the, the, the original bad guys.

[00:09:03] There was a group of people that was, that was bad.

[00:09:05] Yeah.

[00:09:05] That caused, you know, retribution to be had, but the amount has made Israel the bad guys.

[00:09:11] Right.

[00:09:12] Yeah.

[00:09:12] And, and so.

[00:09:14] Yes, they have the right to defend themselves, but they don't have the right to genocide.

[00:09:20] Hello.

[00:09:21] Right.

[00:09:22] But this is more about politics than it is about the Israel, the people in Israel.

[00:09:26] Yeah.

[00:09:26] Yeah.

[00:09:27] Generally there's people in Israel that disagree with what's going on just like there is in

[00:09:30] the United States.

[00:09:31] So it's not about the people.

[00:09:34] It's about the politics.

[00:09:35] Right.

[00:09:35] And it always is about the politics.

[00:09:37] Right.

[00:09:38] Always what it is.

[00:09:39] Exactly.

[00:09:40] Anyway.

[00:09:41] Moving on.

[00:09:42] Yeah.

[00:09:42] In verse 21, it says, but first I will tell you what is written in the book of truth.

[00:09:46] Right.

[00:09:46] And we were like, the fuck is a book of truth?

[00:09:49] Yeah.

[00:09:49] All right.

[00:09:50] So I did a little bit of research.

[00:09:53] You looked up the truth on the truth.

[00:09:55] I found the truth.

[00:09:56] Ready?

[00:09:56] Yeah.

[00:09:57] All right.

[00:09:57] The book of truth is understood to be a divine record or heavenly scroll that contains.

[00:10:04] So it's not actually a book that contains God's plans, purposes and knowledge of future

[00:10:08] events.

[00:10:09] Oh, it represents the ultimate truth and reality of what is to come.

[00:10:14] Hmm.

[00:10:15] Okay.

[00:10:15] So this angel speaking to Daniel refers to this book to emphasize that the events and prophecies

[00:10:20] he is revealing are part of a larger divine plan that has already been set down and thus

[00:10:26] will certainly come to pass.

[00:10:28] So, so this is the, if we're to believe that this is what that is, right?

[00:10:33] Mm hmm.

[00:10:33] That would mean that God has an anethyl plan that is laid out in advance well before things

[00:10:39] happen.

[00:10:40] Mm hmm.

[00:10:40] Right.

[00:10:40] Yeah.

[00:10:41] So that means that God literally plans all the shit that happens in the world, which

[00:10:49] also takes away your ability to have free will.

[00:10:52] Mm hmm.

[00:10:52] Right.

[00:10:52] In which people, you know, Christians will argue all day with you about how they have

[00:10:56] free will.

[00:10:57] Right.

[00:10:57] But they choose to follow Jesus.

[00:10:59] Right.

[00:10:59] Yeah.

[00:10:59] And it's like, well, but if there's an ineffable plan, it doesn't really matter.

[00:11:04] You didn't choose that.

[00:11:05] Right.

[00:11:06] And look, I'm not, it's semantics.

[00:11:08] I don't really fucking give a shit, honestly.

[00:11:10] But it's a bad argument is what it's a bad argument.

[00:11:13] Yeah.

[00:11:13] Yeah.

[00:11:14] And, and, and this moreover, it doesn't really lend to the forgiving, the, the forgiving nature

[00:11:21] of God.

[00:11:21] Right.

[00:11:22] God is literally causing war and famine and death and, and murder and all the bad things

[00:11:29] God is causing.

[00:11:30] Yeah.

[00:11:31] Because he has it written down already in the book of truth.

[00:11:34] Apparently.

[00:11:34] Yep.

[00:11:35] That's fucked up.

[00:11:36] That is pretty fucked up.

[00:11:37] Like if, if we're to believe in the God that this God, that author is worse than anything

[00:11:42] that came up in Stephen King's imagination.

[00:11:45] Right.

[00:11:45] Yeah.

[00:11:46] And Stephen King's imagination is pretty out there.

[00:11:48] Right.

[00:11:49] All right.

[00:11:50] But let me continue on.

[00:11:51] Cause I got more to say about this book of truth.

[00:11:52] All right.

[00:11:53] Okay.

[00:11:53] It's not an actual physical book, but rather a symbolic reference to God's foreknowledge

[00:11:58] and his sovereign will over history.

[00:12:01] Okay.

[00:12:01] Okay.

[00:12:02] The concept of a divine record or heavenly book is introduced earlier in the Bible.

[00:12:07] Although the exact phrase book of truth is unique to Daniel 10, 21.

[00:12:13] Okay.

[00:12:14] So one more point to this and that's that, why would God get mad at the Israelites if he

[00:12:20] had already known what they were going to do?

[00:12:21] Because it's all silly.

[00:12:23] Right.

[00:12:23] No, I'm just, no, you're right.

[00:12:25] That is not something that would happen.

[00:12:27] Right.

[00:12:27] You're like, you're like so mad that the chapter that you wrote went the way you wrote it.

[00:12:33] Right.

[00:12:34] OMG.

[00:12:34] That literally makes no sense.

[00:12:35] Right.

[00:12:36] None.

[00:12:37] Why are you mad brah?

[00:12:38] You're the one that wrote it.

[00:12:39] Right.

[00:12:40] Stop.

[00:12:40] Even if, even if he just knows the events, right?

[00:12:44] Right.

[00:12:45] If he knows the events, then he already knows that these things are going to happen.

[00:12:48] So why are you mad?

[00:12:49] Right.

[00:12:49] So why are you mad?

[00:12:50] Yeah.

[00:12:50] That doesn't, that literally, that doesn't make sense.

[00:12:52] It doesn't make sense.

[00:12:53] Okay.

[00:12:54] Right.

[00:12:54] That is, I'm sorry.

[00:12:55] All right.

[00:12:55] So we are talking about the book of life though.

[00:12:58] Truth?

[00:12:58] And how, yes, sorry, the book of truth.

[00:13:01] Yeah.

[00:13:03] And that phrase is not specifically mentioned except for in this one place in Daniel.

[00:13:08] Right.

[00:13:08] Okay.

[00:13:09] Sure.

[00:13:09] Now, the first mention of a similar idea appears in Exodus chapter 32.

[00:13:15] After the Israelites sinned with the golden calf, Moses speaks to God about being blotted

[00:13:21] out of the book that God has written.

[00:13:24] Right.

[00:13:24] This book is generally understood to be the book of life.

[00:13:28] Right.

[00:13:29] And that's what I was referring to.

[00:13:30] We, I kind of brought it up when we were talking about this and I was like, that's what

[00:13:33] I was thinking.

[00:13:34] That was so.

[00:13:34] A record of those who belong to God.

[00:13:36] Right.

[00:13:37] Yeah.

[00:13:37] Yeah.

[00:13:37] Okay.

[00:13:38] So yeah.

[00:13:39] And you were right.

[00:13:40] It's related or the same.

[00:13:42] So it's a book of life and it's also a book of truth that has basically all the knowledge

[00:13:49] of all the things always.

[00:13:51] It's like a really awesome planner because it's got a calendar and it's got like a list

[00:13:56] of all the holidays and celebrations and it's got a list of all the things to come.

[00:14:01] And it also is a record of everything that already happened.

[00:14:04] Right.

[00:14:05] It's like the best book ever.

[00:14:07] Sure.

[00:14:07] I want that planner.

[00:14:08] Do you?

[00:14:09] No.

[00:14:09] Yeah.

[00:14:09] Another related concept appears in Psalm 139.

[00:14:13] Could really help with like betting odds, you know?

[00:14:15] Where the psalmist mentions that all the days of his life were written in God's book.

[00:14:21] Yeah.

[00:14:22] Before any of them came to be.

[00:14:24] Okay.

[00:14:24] This suggests a record of God's plans and purposes for individuals.

[00:14:28] While these references don't specifically mention the quote book of truth, they do introduce

[00:14:34] the idea of a divine record of sorts.

[00:14:37] Right.

[00:14:38] So there's that.

[00:14:39] Okay.

[00:14:40] Yeah.

[00:14:41] All right.

[00:14:41] So just one more interjection.

[00:14:43] I feel like this takes away from a lot of the things that people try to claim about

[00:14:48] Christianity and religion in general with regard to your choices and what God is and

[00:14:54] stands for.

[00:14:55] Agreed.

[00:14:55] That's all.

[00:14:56] No, I totally agree.

[00:14:57] Those are great points.

[00:14:59] So we're done with chapter 11.

[00:15:01] Yeah.

[00:15:02] I'm so sorry.

[00:15:03] We're done with chapter 10.

[00:15:04] Right.

[00:15:04] Right.

[00:15:04] Right.

[00:15:06] And the reason that I keep mowing over you is because there's a lot of material,

[00:15:10] particularly in chapter 11.

[00:15:12] Right.

[00:15:12] So I'm like, uh-huh.

[00:15:14] Shut up.

[00:15:15] Yeah.

[00:15:15] Yeah.

[00:15:15] So I can't, I can't not interject.

[00:15:17] You interject.

[00:15:18] That is fine.

[00:15:19] And I will keep making faces at you and trying to roll on.

[00:15:23] Just for the record, wife was really annoyed with me.

[00:15:25] Oh, I was so fucking annoyed.

[00:15:26] Anyways, chapter 11.

[00:15:28] Okay.

[00:15:29] Verse two says,

[00:15:30] Now then I tell you the truth.

[00:15:32] Three more kings will arise in Persia and then a fourth who will be far richer than all

[00:15:37] the others.

[00:15:38] When he has gained power by his wealth, he will stir up everyone against the kingdom of

[00:15:42] Greece.

[00:15:43] Let us not forget chapter 11 is full of, and then this is going to happen.

[00:15:46] Right.

[00:15:47] And then this.

[00:15:47] Oh, it's so bad.

[00:15:48] Yeah.

[00:15:49] I hate it.

[00:15:49] So we're going to go through and compare this to what actually took place.

[00:15:53] Hmm.

[00:15:53] And when it switched from, um, things that have already happened to future tense.

[00:16:00] Okay.

[00:16:00] Okay.

[00:16:01] Yeah.

[00:16:01] All right.

[00:16:02] So what that meant just then was there actually were four kings from the time Daniel spoke

[00:16:07] of until Xerxes, the prophesied strong, rich and fourth king who did actually stir everyone

[00:16:14] up against Greece.

[00:16:15] But, um, here's the thing though.

[00:16:17] He said there was going to be three kings and then the fourth will be big, but there were

[00:16:22] four kings.

[00:16:23] Okay.

[00:16:23] Okay.

[00:16:24] Yeah.

[00:16:24] So either the angel who's telling Daniel this thing omitted the current king Cyrus looking

[00:16:31] only to the future, or he ignored one of the other kings that was in that list.

[00:16:36] King Smyrdas of Persia.

[00:16:38] Um, he was only there from 521 or 522 to 521 BCE.

[00:16:45] And because he ruled less than one year, he would end was an imposter to the throne.

[00:16:50] Maybe it sounds like they left out.

[00:16:53] Yeah.

[00:16:53] Yeah.

[00:16:53] And, and, and moreover, this is being written by people that were already have seen this

[00:16:59] and this, we're talking about a 400 year span of time.

[00:17:01] Right.

[00:17:02] So, I mean, I think that.

[00:17:04] So they either left out the person who was king at the time, which was Cyrus.

[00:17:09] I don't see that happening.

[00:17:10] Right.

[00:17:10] Or they left out this guy who didn't even rule for a year and, um, was an imposter to

[00:17:16] the throne.

[00:17:16] I think that sounds most likely.

[00:17:17] Right.

[00:17:18] So that happened.

[00:17:19] Okay.

[00:17:19] So there's he's the great, that's the big fourth guy.

[00:17:23] Sure.

[00:17:23] Okay.

[00:17:24] Yeah.

[00:17:24] Um, he came to power in Persia and 486 BCE and FYI, I put a lot of time into, um, putting

[00:17:33] years into this.

[00:17:34] Like I found various sources that had like lists of, and then this happened, which was, you

[00:17:39] know, corroborated and this prophecy was fulfilled, but I didn't.

[00:17:44] So I had to go one by one with these prophecies and stick a year to it.

[00:17:48] Okay.

[00:17:48] Because I wanted to understand the time, how this lines up.

[00:17:52] Okay.

[00:17:53] So, um, that's why there's so much material anyway.

[00:17:56] So Xerxes, the great came to power in Persia in 486 BCE.

[00:18:01] Okay.

[00:18:01] He succeeded his father, Darius, the first Darius, the Mede.

[00:18:04] Right.

[00:18:05] And ruled until his assassination in 465.

[00:18:09] So from 486 to 65.

[00:18:12] Got it.

[00:18:12] BCE.

[00:18:14] Yeah.

[00:18:15] Chapter or verse three.

[00:18:16] Then a mighty king will arise who will rule with great power and do as he pleases.

[00:18:20] Verse four.

[00:18:21] After he has arisen, his empire will be broken up and parceled out toward the four winds of

[00:18:26] heaven.

[00:18:27] It will not go to his descendants.

[00:18:28] And this was Alexander the great.

[00:18:30] Exactly.

[00:18:31] You remember that's so good because I didn't until I read it.

[00:18:34] And I was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:18:35] Yeah.

[00:18:36] So this was fulfilled in, this prophecy was fulfilled in Alexander the great who came to

[00:18:41] power in 336 BCE.

[00:18:43] He ruled until his death in 323 BCE at the age of 32.

[00:18:48] We already read a little bit about him.

[00:18:51] We already read a little bit about him.

[00:18:51] Um, when we went over this chapter, we also read about him in one of our, um, book clubs,

[00:18:56] uh, that covered, um, Jewish fairy tales because the Jewish revere, uh, or I'm sorry, I shouldn't

[00:19:04] say the Jewish as though like it's a monolith, but Alexander the great holds great reverence

[00:19:10] for many Jewish people is what I should say.

[00:19:13] Anyway, he ruled until his death, blah, blah, blah.

[00:19:16] None of his descendants succeeded him after his death.

[00:19:19] And then the subsequent death of all his possible heirs, four generals controlled the

[00:19:25] Greek empire because he had a son who was born after he died.

[00:19:30] A baby can't rule.

[00:19:31] Right.

[00:19:32] He had a half brother who was not mentally fit.

[00:19:36] So couldn't rule.

[00:19:37] He had a regent.

[00:19:38] He also had a illegitimate son and he had another brother or something like that.

[00:19:43] I don't know.

[00:19:44] Okay.

[00:19:44] Anyway, but two of them were named co Kings.

[00:19:48] And, um, I think it was the baby that was born after he died as well as his dimwit brother.

[00:19:55] And that's how he was referred to in the notes.

[00:19:58] So apologies.

[00:19:59] Apologies.

[00:20:00] I have mental health issues.

[00:20:01] So I'm not here to call anybody names in cruel fashion.

[00:20:06] I am repeating what I read.

[00:20:08] Sure.

[00:20:08] It stuck in my head and I shouldn't have said that, but that's what it said.

[00:20:12] No, you guys should have seen my face when wife said it.

[00:20:13] I was like, whoa.

[00:20:14] Whoa.

[00:20:15] So, um, anyway, those two were named co Kings and they had regents to like help.

[00:20:22] But then there was so much infighting that everybody died.

[00:20:25] Everybody got killed.

[00:20:26] Yeah.

[00:20:26] The regions, the, the wannabe Kings, the babies, everybody died.

[00:20:30] Got it.

[00:20:31] Okay.

[00:20:31] Yeah.

[00:20:32] So then four generals controlled the Greek empire.

[00:20:35] Sure.

[00:20:36] Okay.

[00:20:36] Now the rest of this prophecy, the whole rest of this chapter focuses on only two of the

[00:20:42] four inheritors of Alexander's realm and the dynasties that they established.

[00:20:47] Okay.

[00:20:47] And here's why these two fucking countries fought over the promised land, which sat right

[00:20:54] between their centers of power for centuries.

[00:20:57] Oh yeah.

[00:20:58] Like back and forth and back and forth.

[00:21:00] Right.

[00:21:00] Whoever was strongest at the time they got to rule obviously, but it was never like for

[00:21:07] long before the other one got the upper.

[00:21:09] Sure.

[00:21:10] All right.

[00:21:10] So verse five, the king of the South will become strong, but one of his commanders will

[00:21:15] become even stronger than he and will rule over his own kingdom with great power.

[00:21:19] Okay.

[00:21:20] So this was fulfilled in Ptolemy, Ptolemy, the first of Egypt.

[00:21:24] I typically don't name like the first, the second, the third, cause I don't much care.

[00:21:30] Right.

[00:21:30] And it doesn't always matter.

[00:21:32] But in the purposes of this, we're going through a lot of history and there's more than

[00:21:36] one Ptolemy and there's more than one other like Pharaohs.

[00:21:40] Right.

[00:21:40] Right.

[00:21:40] So, um, so laius, so laicus.

[00:21:43] So, um, I will be.

[00:21:45] So it's going to matter.

[00:21:45] Yeah.

[00:21:46] It's going to matter.

[00:21:46] And that's why I'm being specific here.

[00:21:48] Okay.

[00:21:49] So Ptolemy, the first of Egypt came to power in Egypt in three 23 BCE.

[00:21:56] Okay.

[00:21:56] It was initially a governor or satrap of Egypt after Alexander's death.

[00:22:01] Okay.

[00:22:01] Yep.

[00:22:02] And then after all them guys died, the, um, half brothers and babies and whatever's.

[00:22:07] Right.

[00:22:07] He's like, guess what?

[00:22:08] I'm King.

[00:22:08] He declared himself King and founded the Ptolemaic dynasty in 305 BCE.

[00:22:14] He's like, what's up?

[00:22:16] I'm a, I'm a empire now.

[00:22:18] Right.

[00:22:18] I just named myself.

[00:22:19] I mean, if you're in charge of a large empire, you might as well name yourself a dynasty.

[00:22:23] And what's up Ptolemy, Ptolemy.

[00:22:26] And apparently there's more than one Ptolemy.

[00:22:27] So it wasn't untrue.

[00:22:30] Totally.

[00:22:30] So this marked the official start of his reign as Pharaoh and exerting his control over the

[00:22:37] Holy land.

[00:22:38] He ruled Egypt until his death in two 82 BCE.

[00:22:41] So from 305 to two 82.

[00:22:44] Okay.

[00:22:45] Yep.

[00:22:45] And then, um, there was a prince named Seleicus.

[00:22:50] He initially served under Alexander and then later under Ptolemy the first.

[00:22:55] Okay.

[00:22:55] Okay.

[00:22:56] And he became the satrap of Babylon governor around 321 BCE.

[00:23:01] He was driven out by another successor, but regained power with the help of Ptolemy the

[00:23:07] first and returned to Babylon in 312 BCE founding the Seleucid empire.

[00:23:15] So his name was, um, Seleicus.

[00:23:18] Okay.

[00:23:18] So it's the Seleicus empire, but Seleicus, I can't say it.

[00:23:23] Got it.

[00:23:24] Right.

[00:23:24] It's his empire.

[00:23:25] Sure.

[00:23:26] He eventually took control over Syria in 301 BCE and eventually became more powerful

[00:23:33] than Ptolemy.

[00:23:34] Huh?

[00:23:34] Yeah.

[00:23:35] So the Seleicus guys are identified as the Kings of the North and the Ptolemies are the

[00:23:43] Kings of the South.

[00:23:44] Okay.

[00:23:44] Okay.

[00:23:45] Yeah.

[00:23:45] So when they're talking about the North and the South Kings, that's what they're talking

[00:23:48] about.

[00:23:49] Right.

[00:23:49] Sure.

[00:23:49] Okay.

[00:23:49] Yeah.

[00:23:50] And it's just funny because Seleicus originally was under Alexander and under Ptolemy the first.

[00:23:56] Right.

[00:23:57] And then he's like, JK, I don't like y'all.

[00:23:59] Give me my own stuff.

[00:24:01] And so he took Syria and was like, I'm in charge now.

[00:24:04] Yeah.

[00:24:04] And they fought.

[00:24:05] Right.

[00:24:06] The dynasties of the Seleicus guys and the Ptolemies fought for some 130 years.

[00:24:12] So, okay.

[00:24:12] I said centuries.

[00:24:14] It felt like centuries as I was writing this, but I guess it was only 130.

[00:24:17] It was more than a century.

[00:24:19] So there you go.

[00:24:20] The stronger of the two always held dominion over the Holy Land.

[00:24:24] So the Holy Land was just like, right.

[00:24:28] Right.

[00:24:28] And I'm like, okay, who, who am I paying taxes to this week?

[00:24:31] Right.

[00:24:32] Yeah.

[00:24:32] I don't even care.

[00:24:33] So is it any wonder that these guys had like no local religion of their own that they

[00:24:38] gave a shit about?

[00:24:39] They were just like, whoever's in charge this week.

[00:24:41] That's the God I'm praying to.

[00:24:42] I don't care what you call them.

[00:24:44] I just want some rain for my fucking fields.

[00:24:46] That sounds like they were just cute.

[00:24:47] I mean, like, so we basically lose like 400 years of history of the Israelites when we're

[00:24:52] in Daniel because they, they are writing this around the 200 BCE timeframe.

[00:24:59] And so we're talking about the end of the Babylonian exile being what?

[00:25:04] Like a five, five, 25, 30, somewhere around there.

[00:25:08] Um, and so, so, okay, maybe 300, 350, whatever, somewhere in that time range is how many years

[00:25:15] we're talking about that it happened.

[00:25:16] And, but from all of the political upheaval and, and, and military upheaval that was going

[00:25:21] on, it just sounds like they were just mostly keeping their heads down and they weren't freed

[00:25:26] up to reinvigorate themselves until around the 200 BCE timeframe.

[00:25:31] Right.

[00:25:31] Exactly.

[00:25:31] And that's where this is like, they just kind of kept pushing through and living their life

[00:25:36] and doing what they do.

[00:25:37] So push a rock, push a rock, push a rock.

[00:25:39] Yeah.

[00:25:40] Right.

[00:25:41] Right.

[00:25:41] Yeah.

[00:25:42] All right.

[00:25:42] So verse six, after some years, they will become allies.

[00:25:46] The daughter of the King of the South will go to the King of the North to make an alliance.

[00:25:50] Oh, but she will not retain her power and he and his power will not last.

[00:25:55] In those days, she will be betrayed together with her Royal escort and her father and the

[00:26:00] one who supported her.

[00:26:01] Hmm.

[00:26:02] All right.

[00:26:02] So this was fulfilled in the marriage between Antiochus the second of the Solaicus guys.

[00:26:09] Okay.

[00:26:10] And Berenice, the daughter of Ptolemy the second.

[00:26:13] Got it.

[00:26:14] In two 52 BCE.

[00:26:16] Is Antiochus the second?

[00:26:18] Is he the one that we learned about?

[00:26:19] No, no.

[00:26:20] Okay.

[00:26:21] He's not, um, the Antiochus Epiphanies.

[00:26:25] Okay.

[00:26:25] No, that guy is the fourth.

[00:26:27] Okay.

[00:26:27] We're only at the second right now.

[00:26:29] No, I just, I wanted to clarify because you know, it's a little bit confusing.

[00:26:33] Sure.

[00:26:33] No, this is Antiochus the second of the, um, Solaicus guys.

[00:26:38] Completely separate from the Antiochus that we were reading about before.

[00:26:41] Well, we will get to him.

[00:26:42] Right.

[00:26:42] He is going to be mentioned in this prophecy.

[00:26:44] Right.

[00:26:45] Okay.

[00:26:46] Um, so anyway, they hooked up in two 52 BCE.

[00:26:49] There was peace for a time because of this marriage, but it was upset when Ptolemy the

[00:26:55] second died in two 46 BCE.

[00:26:58] So it was only a few years.

[00:27:00] Sure.

[00:27:00] All right.

[00:27:01] Once Ptolemy the second died and Tychus the second put away Berenice and took back his

[00:27:08] former wife, Laodice.

[00:27:10] What does put away mean?

[00:27:11] He just locked her up or he was like, bitch, bye.

[00:27:15] Got it.

[00:27:15] Okay.

[00:27:16] Yeah.

[00:27:16] Or, you know, bye Felicia.

[00:27:18] Have a nice.

[00:27:19] Probably held on to her and put her in, imprisoned her type deal.

[00:27:22] Or put her in like a monastery or similar.

[00:27:25] Right.

[00:27:26] They didn't have monasteries, but what the fuck ever.

[00:27:27] Cause back then when you had, uh, you know, when you took a wife from another kingdom,

[00:27:32] like it kind of, there's some sort of a tie in with your claim to thrones and things

[00:27:37] like that, that they would have been trying to keep alive by keeping that woman alive.

[00:27:41] Right.

[00:27:42] So I'm sure he probably didn't kill her just to have the illusion.

[00:27:46] Hey, well I married her.

[00:27:48] So yeah, she's still here.

[00:27:50] Yeah.

[00:27:50] She comes back into the picture.

[00:27:51] So she definitely ain't dead.

[00:27:53] Got it.

[00:27:53] He just put her somewhere.

[00:27:54] Okay.

[00:27:54] Locked her in a room or something.

[00:27:55] Okay.

[00:27:56] So he put her away and he took back his former wife, Laodice or Laodice.

[00:28:02] Okay.

[00:28:02] I'm going to say Laodice because Berenice.

[00:28:05] Sure.

[00:28:05] Anyway, Laodice did not trust her husband Antiochus II, you know, cause she had been

[00:28:11] put away so he could marry fucking Berenice.

[00:28:14] Sure.

[00:28:14] Right?

[00:28:15] Yeah.

[00:28:15] So anyways, she had him poisoned that same year.

[00:28:18] She's like, fuck this.

[00:28:19] I'm out.

[00:28:19] Jesus Christ.

[00:28:20] So immediately following the murder of Antiochus II, Laodice had Berenice, Berenice's

[00:28:27] infant son and all of her attendants killed.

[00:28:31] Holy shit.

[00:28:32] And then she set her son, Solaicus II on the throne of the Syrian dominion.

[00:28:37] Damn.

[00:28:38] She's like, fuck you.

[00:28:39] Fuck you.

[00:28:39] Fuck you.

[00:28:40] Fuck you.

[00:28:40] And come here, baby.

[00:28:42] Yeah.

[00:28:42] Baby boy.

[00:28:43] You go sit up there.

[00:28:44] Sounds a little Game of Thrones-ish.

[00:28:46] Yeah.

[00:28:46] Yeah.

[00:28:47] We don't need Game of Thrones.

[00:28:48] We have this shit in real life.

[00:28:50] Okay.

[00:28:50] So, and all of this stuff is actually what happened.

[00:28:54] Sure.

[00:28:54] Okay.

[00:28:54] This is all historical, except when I'm reading the verses, they're describing.

[00:29:00] It's supposed to be that this angel is prophesizing or whatever to Daniel.

[00:29:06] Yeah.

[00:29:07] Clearly this was written after the fact.

[00:29:09] Right.

[00:29:09] Okay.

[00:29:10] Verse seven and eight and nine.

[00:29:13] Okay.

[00:29:14] One from her family line will arise to take her place.

[00:29:17] He will attack the forces of the king to the north and enter his fortress.

[00:29:21] He will fight against them and be victorious.

[00:29:23] He will also seize their gods, their metal images, and their valuable articles of silver

[00:29:28] and gold and carry them off to Egypt.

[00:29:30] For some years, he will leave the king of the north alone.

[00:29:33] Then the king of the north will invade the realm of the king of the south, but will retreat

[00:29:37] to his own country.

[00:29:37] Yeah.

[00:29:38] Remember when we were reading this, it was like north and south and north and south, and

[00:29:41] we were like, I can't.

[00:29:42] I don't know.

[00:29:42] Well, and just to say this, the fact that, you know, that it was such a badly written

[00:29:49] account of what happened over the previous hundreds of years.

[00:29:52] Yeah.

[00:29:53] Right.

[00:29:53] But it was also very, very accurate in so far as you can be accurate with he's and they's

[00:30:01] and this and that.

[00:30:03] Right.

[00:30:04] Yeah.

[00:30:04] So it was way too accurate to pretend like this is a fucking prophecy.

[00:30:11] Yeah.

[00:30:11] Right.

[00:30:11] But they that's what they were doing that the whole Daniel thing is we're this is a prophet

[00:30:18] and he wrote these things and he predicted these things.

[00:30:21] Yeah.

[00:30:21] But there's never been a prophet before that was able to predict with such accuracy.

[00:30:27] Yeah.

[00:30:27] So many different events.

[00:30:28] And there's a reason why they have to paint this as a prophecy.

[00:30:32] Okay.

[00:30:33] Because remember, I told you we're going to get to a certain verse and then all of a sudden

[00:30:38] it's going to shift from these are things that have happened.

[00:30:42] Right.

[00:30:42] To and this is stuff that will happen.

[00:30:46] And we need you to believe the accuracy of the ones that already happened that we're

[00:30:51] trying to pretend are new so that you have a reason to believe the shit that ain't

[00:30:56] happened yet.

[00:30:56] Right.

[00:30:57] But the whole ask the whole part where they're trying to get us to believe this actually happened

[00:31:03] is the part that makes me not believe that it actually happened.

[00:31:06] I know.

[00:31:07] So it's counterproductive to me.

[00:31:10] It totally is.

[00:31:11] It totally is.

[00:31:12] And I think it should be counterproductive to anybody actually reading this portion of the

[00:31:15] Bible.

[00:31:15] Like it's it's ridiculous.

[00:31:16] It should be.

[00:31:17] But who actually reads it straight through like we're doing?

[00:31:19] No, I know.

[00:31:20] Nobody.

[00:31:20] I know.

[00:31:20] Nobody given that we read four to six chapters per week.

[00:31:26] Yeah.

[00:31:26] And it's taken us over four years.

[00:31:28] It's true.

[00:31:28] So that is how I know Christians have not actually read the motherfucking Bible straight

[00:31:34] through.

[00:31:35] Right.

[00:31:35] Because it'll take us probably another four years.

[00:31:38] And there's no way any of the Christians that I know in my personal life have spent

[00:31:43] eight to ten years reading the Bible straight through.

[00:31:47] I think that should be like a first question that you ask Christian that says that they've

[00:31:50] read the Bible like, oh, yeah.

[00:31:51] What did you read it?

[00:31:52] How long did it take you to read it straight through?

[00:31:53] Yeah, that's what I planned to do.

[00:31:55] And when they tell you, oh, just a couple of weeks, you'd be like.

[00:31:58] Yeah.

[00:31:58] Yeah.

[00:31:59] Bullshit.

[00:31:59] Yeah.

[00:32:00] That can't possibly be true.

[00:32:01] I don't believe you.

[00:32:02] Yeah.

[00:32:03] I mean, look, somebody could probably do it, but you would be doing nothing but that.

[00:32:08] Right.

[00:32:08] Like that would be all you're doing.

[00:32:10] And you're not taking it in.

[00:32:12] Right.

[00:32:12] If you're the general human being.

[00:32:14] Sure.

[00:32:14] You're not taking it in.

[00:32:15] Right.

[00:32:15] So fuck off with that.

[00:32:17] Yeah.

[00:32:17] Okay.

[00:32:17] I'm sorry, but no.

[00:32:19] Because you know why else?

[00:32:20] Because most of the people that claim that are uneducated.

[00:32:23] And so they would not be able to understand what they were reading.

[00:32:29] Right.

[00:32:29] I'm not completely a dumb dumb and I don't understand what's happening.

[00:32:33] I have to look it up in alternate sources to find out what the fuck is happening here.

[00:32:40] Well, when they tell you that they read it in a couple of weeks or whatever, that's really

[00:32:43] like, doesn't isn't there something about lying in the Bible?

[00:32:46] Yeah.

[00:32:46] I'm just curious, you know.

[00:32:48] Yeah.

[00:32:48] Or I don't think that we're speaking the same language.

[00:32:51] Like, I mean, actually straight through.

[00:32:53] Right.

[00:32:54] Yeah.

[00:32:54] And there's no way you did that.

[00:32:55] Not the cliff notes.

[00:32:57] Yeah.

[00:32:57] Not a YouTube channel.

[00:32:59] Yeah.

[00:33:00] All right.

[00:33:00] So verse seven, one.

[00:33:02] Oh, I just read that.

[00:33:03] Sorry.

[00:33:03] Seven, eight, nine, blah, blah, blah.

[00:33:05] Okay.

[00:33:05] So remember the north and south and north and south and north and south.

[00:33:09] And we're like, what?

[00:33:10] Right.

[00:33:10] Okay.

[00:33:10] So this was fulfilled in the person of Ptolemy the third, Berenice's brother.

[00:33:16] Okay.

[00:33:16] Okay.

[00:33:17] Avenging the murder of his sister.

[00:33:19] Cause remember, Laodice, whatever her name is.

[00:33:22] She had all those people murdered.

[00:33:23] Yeah.

[00:33:23] Right.

[00:33:23] And so he's like, fuck you for that.

[00:33:26] I'm going to get you.

[00:33:27] So Ptolemy the third still in the same year, 246 BCE.

[00:33:31] Okay.

[00:33:32] Okay.

[00:33:32] Yeah.

[00:33:32] He's avenging his sister.

[00:33:34] And so Ptolemy the third invaded Syria and humbled.

[00:33:37] So Laik is the second humbled him, humbled him.

[00:33:40] Okay.

[00:33:41] And then Ptolemy the third ruled until his death and two 222 BCE living four years past

[00:33:48] so Laik is the second, which is important because it said that he would be him and retreat

[00:33:55] to his own country or whatever.

[00:33:56] Got it.

[00:33:57] Okay.

[00:33:57] Yeah.

[00:33:57] I just, why would you?

[00:33:59] I don't, I don't.

[00:33:59] He humbled him means that he beat him, but didn't kill him out.

[00:34:03] Got it.

[00:34:04] Okay.

[00:34:04] So he basically pushed back his forces and caused them to be defeated.

[00:34:08] Yeah.

[00:34:08] That's what it boiled down to.

[00:34:09] And took away his power.

[00:34:11] Okay.

[00:34:12] All right.

[00:34:12] Which was just as bad as death.

[00:34:14] That's fair.

[00:34:15] Yeah.

[00:34:15] I just, I'm trying to understand the wording that they're, they're, they're using

[00:34:19] and it just means he was beaten in battle and essentially told him, told him a the third,

[00:34:25] you said, is that right?

[00:34:26] Yes.

[00:34:27] Tolemy the third was the one that was more in power at that point because he, whatever,

[00:34:31] because he won more land, won more battles, whatever.

[00:34:34] Cause he was like, I'll show you to kill my sister.

[00:34:37] Right.

[00:34:37] Yeah.

[00:34:38] Okay.

[00:34:38] So verse 10, his sons will, I mean, this chapter is so fucking long.

[00:34:44] Verse 10, his sons will prepare for war and assemble a great army, which will sweep on

[00:34:49] like an irresistible flood and carry the battle as far as his fortress.

[00:34:53] This was fulfilled in Solaikis the third, who we just talked about and Antiochus the third,

[00:34:59] the two sons of Solaikis the second.

[00:35:02] Okay.

[00:35:03] So who was the one that was just beaten by Ptolemy the third?

[00:35:06] No, that was, um, Oh no, you're right.

[00:35:11] I'm sorry.

[00:35:12] Okay.

[00:35:12] You're right.

[00:35:12] All right.

[00:35:13] Weird.

[00:35:14] So the next generation is going to fight back now.

[00:35:16] Okay.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] Is that, is that the, on the Solaik regime?

[00:35:21] Yeah.

[00:35:22] Yeah.

[00:35:22] Sorry.

[00:35:22] I was, I was confused for a minute there.

[00:35:24] Well, yeah.

[00:35:25] I mean, this is confusing.

[00:35:26] Yeah.

[00:35:27] They were both successful generals, but Solaikis the third ruled only a short time from

[00:35:34] two 25 to two 23 BCE.

[00:35:37] Okay.

[00:35:37] And he was succeeded by his younger brother, Antiochus the third, who was also called Antiochus

[00:35:43] the great.

[00:35:44] Okay.

[00:35:44] But not Alexander, you know, he's right.

[00:35:47] Different people.

[00:35:48] Sure.

[00:35:48] In a furious battle.

[00:35:50] This Antiochus guy took back the Holy land, which is modern day Israel and Palestine

[00:35:55] sure from the dominion of the Ptolemies in 200 BCE.

[00:36:00] Okay.

[00:36:00] Okay.

[00:36:01] Right.

[00:36:01] Verse 11.

[00:36:02] Yeah.

[00:36:02] Then the King of the South will march out in a rage and fight against the King of the

[00:36:06] North who will raise a large army, but it will be defeated.

[00:36:09] Verse 12.

[00:36:10] When the army is carried off, the King of the South will be filled with pride and will

[00:36:15] slaughter many thousands.

[00:36:17] Yet he will not remain triumphant.

[00:36:19] Okay.

[00:36:20] This was fulfilled when Antiochus the third was defeated at the battle of Raphia in 217

[00:36:26] BCE.

[00:36:27] All right.

[00:36:28] Because of that loss, he was forced to give back dominion over the Holy land to Ptolemy

[00:36:33] the fourth.

[00:36:34] Oh, we're on Ptolemy the fourth now.

[00:36:35] Yeah.

[00:36:36] Okay.

[00:36:36] Yeah.

[00:36:37] All right.

[00:36:37] Cause the other one.

[00:36:38] Yeah.

[00:36:38] No, I'm just, I'm trying to keep track.

[00:36:40] No, I know.

[00:36:41] This is where we are.

[00:36:42] So this control remained with the Ptolemies until Antiochus the third later regained the

[00:36:48] territory again.

[00:36:50] Holy shit.

[00:36:51] 200 BCE.

[00:36:52] Okay.

[00:36:52] Yeah.

[00:36:53] Yeah.

[00:36:53] So, I mean, even knowing.

[00:36:56] So it really was back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.

[00:36:59] Yeah.

[00:36:59] Even knowing the names and what the countries are.

[00:37:01] It's still confusing as fuck.

[00:37:02] It's still confusing.

[00:37:03] Yeah.

[00:37:03] Cause like, I think, I think I can remember that the Ptolemies are Egypt.

[00:37:09] Yes, they are.

[00:37:10] And Selechus guys are the Syria guys.

[00:37:15] Yeah.

[00:37:15] Okay.

[00:37:16] So I think I got it, but like, I get really confused.

[00:37:20] All right.

[00:37:21] Cause is Antiochus a Ptolemy or a Selechus?

[00:37:24] No.

[00:37:25] He's a Selechus guy.

[00:37:26] Okay.

[00:37:27] See, I get so confused, especially when like Antiochus and Selechus guys are fighting each

[00:37:33] other.

[00:37:33] Right.

[00:37:34] What?

[00:37:35] Like, stop, stop.

[00:37:37] Don't fight each other.

[00:37:38] Fight other people.

[00:37:39] Right.

[00:37:39] I don't know.

[00:37:40] All right.

[00:37:41] Verse 13.

[00:37:42] For the King of the North will muster another army larger than the first.

[00:37:45] And after several years, he will advance with a huge army fully equipped.

[00:37:49] 14.

[00:37:50] In those times, many will rise against the King of the South.

[00:37:54] Those who are violent among your own people will rebel in fulfillment of the vision,

[00:37:58] but without success.

[00:38:00] Okay.

[00:38:01] 15.

[00:38:01] Then the King of the North will come and build up siege rams and will capture a fortified

[00:38:05] city.

[00:38:06] The forces of the South will be powerless to resist.

[00:38:08] Even their best troops will not have the strength to stand.

[00:38:12] 16.

[00:38:13] The invader will do as he pleases.

[00:38:15] No one will be able to stand against him.

[00:38:16] He will establish himself in the beautiful land and will have the power to destroy it.

[00:38:21] Okay.

[00:38:21] Okay.

[00:38:22] Yeah.

[00:38:22] This was fulfilled when...

[00:38:24] Notice how like every single one, when I like get to my notes, then I say this was fulfilled in...

[00:38:31] Right.

[00:38:31] Okay.

[00:38:32] ...when Antiochus the Third invaded Egypt again, gaining final control over the armies of Ptolemy the Fifth and over the Holy Land in 200 BCE.

[00:38:44] Okay.

[00:38:45] Jews living in the Holy Land helped Antiochus the Third defeat the King of the South.

[00:38:50] This was because the Jewish people resented the rule of the Egyptian Ptolemies.

[00:38:54] Okay.

[00:38:55] Okay.

[00:38:55] So they're like, we're going to go with them for a minute.

[00:38:58] Sure.

[00:38:58] Guess what?

[00:38:59] That was not good.

[00:39:00] Yeah.

[00:39:01] Nope.

[00:39:01] The Jewish people initially welcomed Antiochus the Third as a liberator from Egyptian rule, but their decision to support Antiochus the Third proved unwise when he turned destruction upon the Holy Land and its people.

[00:39:14] Womp, womp.

[00:39:15] Okay.

[00:39:15] They always choose wrong.

[00:39:17] Right.

[00:39:17] They always choose wrong.

[00:39:18] Yeah.

[00:39:18] All right.

[00:39:19] 17.

[00:39:20] He will determine to come with the might of his entire kingdom and will make an alliance with the King of the South.

[00:39:25] And he will give him a daughter in marriage in order to overthrow the kingdom, but his plans will not succeed or help him.

[00:39:32] So we're again marrying somebody to try to do political power things and...

[00:39:37] Yes.

[00:39:37] Got it.

[00:39:38] This was fulfilled when Antiochus the Third gave his daughter Cleopatra...

[00:39:43] No, not that Cleopatra, although she is an ancestor to the Cleopatra that we know of, who came like a hundred years later.

[00:39:52] Earlier.

[00:39:53] Later.

[00:39:54] Oh.

[00:39:55] Yeah.

[00:39:55] Okay.

[00:39:56] I thought Cleopatra was back in the book of Solomon.

[00:39:59] No, we didn't talk about Cleopatra.

[00:40:02] That was...

[00:40:02] Oh.

[00:40:03] Queen of Sheba.

[00:40:04] Oh, that's right.

[00:40:04] I'm sorry.

[00:40:05] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:40:05] I apologize.

[00:40:06] Nope, you're fine.

[00:40:07] So, um...

[00:40:09] Yeah.

[00:40:09] So, Antiochus the Third gave his daughter, not the famous Cleopatra, to Ptolemy the Fifth of Egypt in 193 BCE.

[00:40:18] Okay.

[00:40:18] He did this hoping to gain influence and control over Egypt.

[00:40:22] The plan did not succeed because, uh-oh, that Cleopatra that ain't famous was also not faithful to her Egyptian husband.

[00:40:31] Oh, wow.

[00:40:32] So, whoopsie.

[00:40:33] Yeah.

[00:40:33] Looks like all of them Cleopatras like to fuck.

[00:40:36] I'm not here to slut shame because, you know, fucking's good.

[00:40:40] Right.

[00:40:40] You know?

[00:40:40] Sure.

[00:40:40] If you like it.

[00:40:41] Right.

[00:40:42] If you don't, it's fine too.

[00:40:43] Sure.

[00:40:44] Anyways, consent.

[00:40:45] Mm-hmm.

[00:40:46] Okay.

[00:40:46] 18.

[00:40:47] Then he will turn his attention to the coastlands and will take many of them, but a commander will put an end to his insolence and will turn his insolence back on him.

[00:40:56] Okay.

[00:40:56] 19.

[00:40:57] After this, he will turn back toward the fortress of his own country, but will stumble and fall to be seen no more.

[00:41:03] Right.

[00:41:04] Okay.

[00:41:04] So, this was fulfilled when Antiochus III turned his attention toward the areas of Asia Minor and Greece around 192 BCE.

[00:41:14] All right.

[00:41:14] He was helped by Hannibal.

[00:41:17] Hannibal Lecter?

[00:41:18] No.

[00:41:18] No.

[00:41:19] That other Hannibal.

[00:41:21] Okay.

[00:41:21] The famous general from Carthage.

[00:41:23] So, the historically famous Hannibal.

[00:41:27] Okay.

[00:41:27] Sure.

[00:41:27] Okay.

[00:41:28] But a Roman general, Lucius Cornelius Scipio, defeated Antiochus in Greece in 290 BCE.

[00:41:37] So, this is, I'm assuming, the beginning of the rise of some Roman and Greek power type things.

[00:41:43] Yep.

[00:41:43] Or, well, I guess, yeah.

[00:41:45] Yeah.

[00:41:45] So.

[00:41:46] Yep.

[00:41:47] Antiochus III had planned to humiliate Greece, but he was humiliated instead.

[00:41:52] Okay.

[00:41:53] Okay.

[00:41:54] He returned to his former regions, having lost all that he gained.

[00:41:58] After this defeat, Antiochus III, needing money badly for his treasury, resorted to pillaging a Babylonian temple, and was killed by enraged local citizens in 187 BCE.

[00:42:10] Okay.

[00:42:11] That's funny to me.

[00:42:12] Yeah.

[00:42:12] Right.

[00:42:12] Yeah.

[00:42:13] Yeah.

[00:42:13] I don't condone murder, but that's just funny to me.

[00:42:16] All right.

[00:42:16] 20.

[00:42:17] His successor will send out a tax collector to maintain the royal splendor.

[00:42:21] In a few years, however, he will be destroyed, yet not in anger or in battle.

[00:42:25] Okay.

[00:42:26] Yeah.

[00:42:26] This was fulfilled in the brief reign of Silechus IV, Philopator, which I first read as Philociraptor, son of Antiochus III and the elder brother of Antiochus IV.

[00:42:40] Okay.

[00:42:41] Okay.

[00:42:42] Silechus IV ruled from 187 BCE until his assassination in 175 BCE.

[00:42:49] Okay.

[00:42:50] He sought to raise funds through heavy taxation, including the wealth of the Jerusalem temple in the Holy Land.

[00:42:57] His death is shrouded in some mystery, and it's suspected that Silechus IV was assassinated by his younger brother Antiochus IV.

[00:43:07] Oh.

[00:43:08] Mm-hmm.

[00:43:08] Damn.

[00:43:09] Yeah.

[00:43:09] So that's what it means when it says he was not killed.

[00:43:12] He wasn't killed.

[00:43:14] Hold on.

[00:43:15] What did I say?

[00:43:15] He will be destroyed, yet not in anger or in battle.

[00:43:18] Well, it might have been in anger, but no.

[00:43:21] I mean, it sounds like his brother was just methodical, like, I'm going to be king, so bye.

[00:43:26] Right.

[00:43:27] Right.

[00:43:27] So, okay.

[00:43:28] 21.

[00:43:29] He will be succeeded by a contemptible person.

[00:43:31] Do you know who this is?

[00:43:33] Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

[00:43:34] Yes.

[00:43:35] Yeah.

[00:43:36] By a contemptible person who has not been given the honor of royalty.

[00:43:39] He will invade the kingdom when its people feel secure, and he will seize it through intrigue.

[00:43:45] Right.

[00:43:46] Okay.

[00:43:46] And this is the guy that you were saying was bribing his way to make alliances and do other

[00:43:50] things, right?

[00:43:51] Yep.

[00:43:51] Yep.

[00:43:51] He's vile.

[00:43:52] Yeah.

[00:43:52] This was fulfilled in the successor of Seleicus IV, named Antiochus IV.

[00:43:58] He did not come to the throne legitimately, being suspected of patricide, or fratricide,

[00:44:04] sorry.

[00:44:05] Right, right.

[00:44:05] But the only other potential heir was imprisoned in Rome.

[00:44:08] Womp womp.

[00:44:09] Apart from the murder of his older brother, Antiochus IV didn't use terror to gain power.

[00:44:16] He used flattery, smooth promises, and intrigue.

[00:44:21] He's a smooth criminal.

[00:44:23] Well, I also kind of remember that he was a little bit eccentric too, right?

[00:44:26] Yes.

[00:44:27] Yeah.

[00:44:27] Yes.

[00:44:27] He flattered the Romans and sent ambassadors to court their favor and to pay them the arrears

[00:44:33] of the owed tribute.

[00:44:35] Hmm.

[00:44:35] So he was throwing money left and right.

[00:44:37] He was the one that like, I told you he would pop up in bathhouses, like, hey, what's

[00:44:41] up naked people?

[00:44:42] Right.

[00:44:42] And like, he would try to rent like office buildings and stuff.

[00:44:45] Like what?

[00:44:46] I just want to office here.

[00:44:47] Sure.

[00:44:48] For no reason.

[00:44:48] Yeah.

[00:44:49] Cause I'm rich.

[00:44:50] Like, he was just weird.

[00:44:51] He would just like be walking down the street and he would be like, here, I bought you a

[00:44:55] present weird stranger.

[00:44:57] Like just, he just, I don't know.

[00:44:59] He's, he's very weird.

[00:45:00] Yeah.

[00:45:01] Okay.

[00:45:01] He flattered the Syrians and gained their concurrence.

[00:45:05] When Antiochus the fourth took the throne in one 75 BCE, he also took the title Epiphanes,

[00:45:12] meaning illustrious.

[00:45:14] Others derisively called him Epimanes, meaning madman, which.

[00:45:18] Probably maybe more fitting.

[00:45:20] Yes.

[00:45:20] Yeah.

[00:45:21] Definitely more fitting.

[00:45:22] Right.

[00:45:22] All right.

[00:45:22] Verse 23.

[00:45:23] After coming to an agreement with him, he will act deceitfully.

[00:45:27] And with only a few people, he will rise to power.

[00:45:31] This was fulfilled when Antiochus Epiphanes carried on the feud between the dynasties,

[00:45:36] but pretended friendship and alliance to catch them off guard.

[00:45:40] Okay.

[00:45:41] Despite massive efforts and epic battles, Antiochus Epiphanes did not stand and his army was swept

[00:45:47] away.

[00:45:48] He ruled the Syllaicus empire guys until his death in one 64 BCE.

[00:45:54] Right.

[00:45:55] So we're coming up on the zero.

[00:45:56] Well, and let me just state this too, because we didn't cover it here, but he was very bad

[00:46:02] for the Jewish population because he was very anti Judaism.

[00:46:09] Yeah.

[00:46:09] Right.

[00:46:09] Like he was making them worship other idols.

[00:46:11] He didn't let them worship their God, you know, like, yeah, I'm actually getting to

[00:46:15] that.

[00:46:16] Okay.

[00:46:17] Um, 28, the king of the north will return to his own country with great wealth, but his

[00:46:22] heart will be set against the Holy covenant.

[00:46:24] He will take action against it and then return to his own country.

[00:46:28] Okay.

[00:46:28] So like I got a little ahead of myself in the notes, but I wanted to make sure I had years

[00:46:33] sure in.

[00:46:34] Okay.

[00:46:34] So yeah, we're going back to right.

[00:46:36] That's why you already announced his death.

[00:46:38] So yeah, sorry.

[00:46:39] Sorry.

[00:46:40] Um, so what I just read was fulfilled when Antiochus Epiphanes returned from Egypt bitter from defeat.

[00:46:46] He vented his anger against Jerusalem, which was already shaken because Antiochus sold the

[00:46:52] office of high priest.

[00:46:54] Remember that?

[00:46:55] Yeah.

[00:46:55] Um, and he persecuted the Jewish people to conform to Greek culture, forsaking the faith

[00:47:01] and traditions of their fathers.

[00:47:03] And, um, he was trying to Greek eyes them.

[00:47:07] Hellenistic, um, empire like that is where that began.

[00:47:10] Okay.

[00:47:11] Okay.

[00:47:11] Yeah.

[00:47:11] So 23 or I'm sorry.

[00:47:13] No, we're skipping a few.

[00:47:15] We're moving up to verse 32.

[00:47:17] Okay.

[00:47:17] Okay.

[00:47:18] I had a dyslexia just then for a minute with flattery.

[00:47:21] He will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will

[00:47:25] firmly resist him.

[00:47:27] This was fulfilled when Antiochus Epiphanes turned on Jerusalem.

[00:47:31] The Jewish people were divided.

[00:47:34] Some forsook their covenant with God and embrace Greek culture.

[00:47:37] But those who knew their God made a stand for righteousness, even in the face of incredible

[00:47:43] persecution.

[00:47:44] And many of them died, um, defending their beliefs.

[00:47:48] Got it.

[00:47:49] Yeah.

[00:47:49] So, um, at verse 36, there is a subtle shift to a future fulfillment.

[00:47:56] Okay.

[00:47:56] Okay.

[00:47:57] All right.

[00:47:57] And this was the quote unquote epiphany that I had the other night, um, that I was, I was

[00:48:03] telling you about off mic.

[00:48:05] Okay.

[00:48:06] That I was like, oh, I get it now because I thought that they were, the prophecies were

[00:48:13] describing what happened and that it could either have been Antiochus or a future thing,

[00:48:20] but no, that is not it.

[00:48:23] That was definitely Antiochus that we were just talking about.

[00:48:26] Sure.

[00:48:26] But he is described in such detail as being such a cruel motherfucker.

[00:48:31] Yeah.

[00:48:31] Because we're supposed to understand that you think that guy was cruel.

[00:48:34] Y'all ain't seen nothing yet.

[00:48:36] Wait till the antichrist gets there.

[00:48:37] Got it.

[00:48:38] Okay.

[00:48:38] Okay.

[00:48:39] So verse 36, the king will do as he pleases.

[00:48:42] He will exalt and magnify himself above every God and will say unheard of things against

[00:48:48] the God of gods.

[00:48:49] He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed for what has been determined must

[00:48:54] take place.

[00:48:56] Okay.

[00:48:56] Okay.

[00:48:57] So now, now let me, let me just say that I have to wonder if, if, um, Judaism accepts

[00:49:06] that as a future or if they accept it as part of the Antiochus bit, right?

[00:49:12] Because it sounds an awful lot like they're trying to put something future in there so

[00:49:17] that it, so that it can be a prophecy for things that they want to occur later.

[00:49:22] They do.

[00:49:23] Um, from what I saw, because I, I was looking up, what does the Jewish tradition believe

[00:49:28] versus what does the Christian, um, believe?

[00:49:30] And I will get into that.

[00:49:31] Right.

[00:49:32] And I should have clarified they was Christian when I was saying they.

[00:49:33] Yeah.

[00:49:33] Um, I will get into that some more later, but they both have very similar beliefs in that

[00:49:38] moving forward.

[00:49:39] These are future things that are yet to come.

[00:49:41] Okay.

[00:49:41] All right.

[00:49:42] Fair enough.

[00:49:42] Um, how and who is a little bit different, but they both agree.

[00:49:46] No, this shit is yet to come.

[00:49:48] Okay.

[00:49:48] And, um, that's what that, those, those years that we were talking about where there's two

[00:49:54] different years.

[00:49:55] Right.

[00:49:55] Um, or number of days.

[00:49:57] Yeah.

[00:49:58] If each one of those days is a year, um, um, I'll get to that.

[00:50:04] But what they're saying is each one of those days is a year.

[00:50:07] And so instead of saying like 1,200 and however many days, it's actually 1,200 and however many

[00:50:15] years.

[00:50:16] Okay.

[00:50:17] Okay.

[00:50:17] And so that changes things.

[00:50:19] And that's why, um, Christians today are like, Oh my God, it's totally the end times.

[00:50:24] And well, but that doesn't, I mean that the thousand years has already happened.

[00:50:28] Right.

[00:50:28] Well, well before today.

[00:50:30] No, I know.

[00:50:30] But just saying, I'll, I'll get there.

[00:50:33] All right.

[00:50:33] Okay.

[00:50:33] Yeah.

[00:50:33] So here we shift from what was fulfilled in the Ptolemies and the Salaic guys.

[00:50:40] Right.

[00:50:41] Okay.

[00:50:41] Period.

[00:50:42] To what will be fulfilled in the Antichrist, the final world dictator.

[00:50:47] Okay.

[00:50:48] Which many believe is Trump, whatever, whatever.

[00:50:50] Many people believe it's not yet happened or is happening or might happen or whatever.

[00:50:54] Many believe it's Biden too.

[00:50:56] So I mean, it's just, it is what it is.

[00:50:57] It explains though, why some Christians are very excited about what is happening and why

[00:51:05] they might vote for Trump because they're like the end times that's fucking epic.

[00:51:09] They're so excited because they think they're going to be raptured.

[00:51:13] Right.

[00:51:13] So it's just, it's very sick and weird.

[00:51:18] But they've also referred to Biden and Obama as the Antichrist.

[00:51:22] I mean, like it's not, it's not exclusive to Trump.

[00:51:25] No.

[00:51:25] And it's not the same Christians saying these things.

[00:51:28] Right.

[00:51:28] Um, the same Christians that would say that Obama was the Antichrist would not be the same

[00:51:35] Christians that are really excited about Trump being the Antichrist.

[00:51:39] Right.

[00:51:39] Does that make sense?

[00:51:40] Yeah.

[00:51:40] And they're not big on saying that he's the Antichrist.

[00:51:42] No.

[00:51:43] A lot of them are saying that he's anointed by God as God's chosen one.

[00:51:47] Right.

[00:51:47] That's what I'm.

[00:51:48] Exactly.

[00:51:49] The second Messiah come to, you know.

[00:51:51] Yeah.

[00:51:51] It just depends on which Christian you ask.

[00:51:54] I would say that's more, the more prevalent idea.

[00:51:56] I would say that that's the more outspoken idea.

[00:51:59] Sure.

[00:51:59] So, Daniel was told that this revelation pertained to the latter days.

[00:52:05] Hmm.

[00:52:06] Yeah.

[00:52:06] Okay.

[00:52:06] This verse begins to look more towards this final world dictator who is a sort of a last

[00:52:12] days Antiochus Epiphanes.

[00:52:15] Antiochus Epiphanes is important, but mostly as a historical preview of the Antichrist to come.

[00:52:23] Okay.

[00:52:23] While Antiochus Epiphanes did exalt and magnify himself, and that's in quotes because that's

[00:52:29] like what the prophecy said.

[00:52:31] Yeah.

[00:52:32] He did remain loyal to the Greek religious tradition, which revered the entire Olympian pantheon.

[00:52:39] So, he did not put himself above all gods.

[00:52:42] Okay.

[00:52:42] Just most of them.

[00:52:44] Right.

[00:52:45] Antiochus Epiphanes put a statue of Zeus in the temple, not of himself, whereas Trump

[00:52:50] has put statues of himself everywhere, but whatever.

[00:52:53] Right.

[00:52:54] I'm just saying, I'm just putting it out there, playing devil's advocate if you will.

[00:52:58] Sure.

[00:52:58] Okay.

[00:52:59] This statement will be far more precisely fulfilled in the Antichrist.

[00:53:03] So, whoever the Antichrist is, he's going to be bigger than God and say so and put statues

[00:53:08] of himself up everywhere.

[00:53:09] Got it.

[00:53:10] Okay.

[00:53:10] That's how we will know him or whatever.

[00:53:13] All right.

[00:53:13] 39.

[00:53:15] He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly

[00:53:19] honor those who acknowledge him.

[00:53:21] He will make them rulers over many people and will distribute the land at a price.

[00:53:26] Okay.

[00:53:26] So, the Antichrist will take and hold power with military might and the shrewd use of great

[00:53:34] riches from other countries.

[00:53:36] Got it.

[00:53:37] So, interesting.

[00:53:37] Okay.

[00:53:38] 40.

[00:53:39] At the time of the end, the king of the south will engage him in battle and the king of

[00:53:44] the north will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships.

[00:53:50] He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood.

[00:53:54] So, what that means, hypothetically, is that a confederation of kings or country leaders,

[00:54:00] presidents, whatever, will come against this great leader, this Antichrist, with a battle

[00:54:05] in and near the Holy Land.

[00:54:07] Okay.

[00:54:08] At some point in the future, the king of the south may be Egypt or it might represent the

[00:54:14] Arab community as a whole.

[00:54:16] We don't know.

[00:54:17] Sure.

[00:54:17] The king of the north may be the Antichrist domain as in the new Antiochus Epiphanes

[00:54:23] land or it might be Russia.

[00:54:25] Who fucking knows?

[00:54:25] Right.

[00:54:26] Right.

[00:54:26] But people like my dad are very excited to say it's happening right now.

[00:54:32] Right.

[00:54:34] Because everything's...

[00:54:35] Well, Israel and the Middle East is very close to...

[00:54:39] It's a mess.

[00:54:39] Yeah.

[00:54:39] I mean, anytime...

[00:54:40] It's always been a mess, but...

[00:54:42] Anytime there's upheaval in the Middle East, there's always talk about end times and the

[00:54:45] possibility of all this stuff happening.

[00:54:47] So...

[00:54:47] But with Russia, you know, rolling.

[00:54:50] Yeah.

[00:54:51] But I mean, Russia has been a thing since World War II.

[00:54:53] Sure.

[00:54:53] So, I mean, it's not really anything new.

[00:54:55] It's not anything new.

[00:54:55] It's just a matter of how it all pans out and when it pans out and what's going on where.

[00:55:00] Mm-hmm.

[00:55:00] To...

[00:55:01] And it is, I think, more of a modern idea to relate this all into an end times scenario.

[00:55:10] Mm.

[00:55:10] I don't think that that's fair because...

[00:55:13] On a popular level.

[00:55:14] I'm not saying like this...

[00:55:15] Well, again, I don't think that that's fair because we're doing this now that us common

[00:55:21] man can look up current events on the fucking internet and understand world events like

[00:55:27] in two seconds flat.

[00:55:28] Right.

[00:55:29] So, you know, back during World War II, people would not have been able to understand everything

[00:55:36] that was happening around the world.

[00:55:39] Right.

[00:55:39] And tie everything together.

[00:55:40] Well, that's kind of my point.

[00:55:42] Okay.

[00:55:42] Is that we just now in the world and we...

[00:55:47] This is why it's a modern thing is because...

[00:55:50] Got it.

[00:55:50] ...general society is now able to see all this stuff and think, hey, this might be that.

[00:55:55] And because it's so prevalent in our society, religious leaders can use that information

[00:56:00] to then build a case for end times and scare people into religious ideas and different things

[00:56:06] like that.

[00:56:07] Got it.

[00:56:08] That's all I was getting at.

[00:56:09] Sure.

[00:56:09] No, that makes sense.

[00:56:11] All right.

[00:56:11] So while the kingdoms remain in question, so we don't know what the lands are, the end

[00:56:15] will be marked by great conflict and will culminate in the world's armies gathering in the promised

[00:56:21] land to engage in the final battle.

[00:56:25] Okay?

[00:56:26] Yeah.

[00:56:26] All right.

[00:56:27] Moving on to chapter 12.

[00:56:29] Okay.

[00:56:30] Okay.

[00:56:31] All right.

[00:56:31] So chapter 12, verses 11 and 12 presents two specific time periods.

[00:56:38] And that was the 100 and...

[00:56:41] I'm sorry, 1,290 days and then the 1,335 days.

[00:56:46] Yeah.

[00:56:47] Okay?

[00:56:47] These numbers have been a subject of much interpretation and speculation among biblical scholars.

[00:56:53] They're like, we don't fucking...

[00:56:55] What the fuck?

[00:56:55] Right.

[00:56:56] Okay.

[00:56:56] So there's various things.

[00:56:58] Prophetic time.

[00:57:00] It's generally accepted that these numbers represent prophetic time where one day equals one year.

[00:57:08] Okay?

[00:57:08] End times.

[00:57:10] The context of the passage suggests that these time periods are related to events leading up

[00:57:16] to the end times.

[00:57:18] Okay.

[00:57:18] Okay?

[00:57:19] Specific events.

[00:57:20] The starting point for these time periods is linked to the, quote, abomination that causes

[00:57:27] desolation.

[00:57:28] Sure.

[00:57:28] A significant event in end time prophecy.

[00:57:32] Okay.

[00:57:33] And so we don't know, but that means Antiochus, right?

[00:57:37] Well, that's what we thought when we were reading it.

[00:57:39] But if you're saying that some of the stuff that we were reading was also about this future

[00:57:45] Antiochus-like figure that is going to be Antichrist, then not necessarily, I guess.

[00:57:51] Right.

[00:57:51] And, you know, that could refer to this future person or thing or whatever.

[00:57:56] Exactly.

[00:57:57] So here's what the two, why you were like, but why two numbers though?

[00:58:01] Remember?

[00:58:02] Yeah.

[00:58:02] And here's what they mean.

[00:58:03] Okay?

[00:58:04] Yeah.

[00:58:04] So 1,290 days might represent a time of intense tribulation or persecution for God's people.

[00:58:12] So that's the trials and tribulations.

[00:58:14] Okay?

[00:58:15] Right.

[00:58:15] And then the 1,335 days is a longer period and that could signify a time of restoration

[00:58:22] and cleansing following the tribulation.

[00:58:25] Okay.

[00:58:26] So.

[00:58:26] Sure.

[00:58:27] Basically, whenever the abomination that causes desolation occurs.

[00:58:34] Yeah.

[00:58:34] Then we can start marking off 1,290 days on our calendar or what the fuck ever.

[00:58:42] Okay.

[00:58:42] Or years.

[00:58:42] So they don't stand for, okay.

[00:58:44] I don't know.

[00:58:46] Right?

[00:58:46] Well, I mean, I just, because I wanted to clarify for myself a little bit just to see

[00:58:53] it separate from what you're telling me.

[00:58:55] Because it sometimes helps me to see it in print as I'm hearing you say something.

[00:58:58] Right?

[00:58:58] Mm-hmm.

[00:58:59] And it's, you know, basically it's saying that there is a lot of fucking disagreement about

[00:59:05] this.

[00:59:06] Sure.

[00:59:06] And what this means.

[00:59:07] So not only is it difficult to understand, it's difficult for even scholars and people

[00:59:13] to understand as well.

[00:59:14] Right.

[00:59:15] So I don't know that there is a great interpretation for what this is.

[00:59:18] No.

[00:59:19] Other than, I don't know.

[00:59:21] Daniel's a fucking weirdo.

[00:59:23] I mean, to me, that's what it is.

[00:59:25] Daniel's a fucking weirdo.

[00:59:26] Yeah.

[00:59:26] No, I mean, it was a really weird vision to begin with.

[00:59:29] And here we end with this chapter that's like, got these weird numbers in it that don't

[00:59:33] really mean anything to us.

[00:59:35] Exactly.

[00:59:36] Unless you want to ascribe meaning to them.

[00:59:38] Right.

[00:59:39] I don't really want to.

[00:59:40] So.

[00:59:40] Right.

[00:59:41] Whatever.

[00:59:42] All right.

[00:59:43] Well, I am rolling this up now.

[00:59:45] We are headed towards the end.

[00:59:47] I've got a little bit more.

[00:59:48] Hang in there.

[00:59:49] I'm hanging.

[00:59:49] All right.

[00:59:50] So for the final time, the book of Daniel can be divided into two parts.

[00:59:56] Yeah.

[00:59:57] The first is a set of six court tales, and those were mostly written in Aramaic chapters

[01:00:03] one through six.

[01:00:04] Okay.

[01:00:05] The second one is four apocalyptic visions in chapter seven through 12 written mostly in

[01:00:10] Hebrew.

[01:00:11] Right.

[01:00:11] Chapters 10, 11 and 12 make up Daniel's final vision describing a series of conflicts between

[01:00:17] the unnamed king of the north and king of the south leading to the time of the end when

[01:00:23] Israel will be vindicated and the dead raised some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting

[01:00:30] contempt.

[01:00:31] I would like to maybe in our wrap up of Daniel, spend a little bit of time with regard to the idea of heaven

[01:00:38] and hell that was referred to in Daniel because we talked about it at the time that that's a little bit

[01:00:43] different.

[01:00:44] Yeah.

[01:00:44] Slightly different interpretation than we've heard before.

[01:00:46] Yeah.

[01:00:47] No, totally.

[01:00:48] I would say this.

[01:00:49] It's an evolving interpretation of what heaven and hell.

[01:00:51] Yeah.

[01:00:53] Means in the Bible.

[01:00:54] What the afterlife is about.

[01:00:55] What the afterlife means in the Bible.

[01:00:56] I should say not heaven and hell because we really haven't got to heaven and hell.

[01:00:59] Right.

[01:01:00] No, the question would just be how does the book of Daniel change our understanding of the afterlife

[01:01:08] up to what we had thought before Daniel.

[01:01:13] Right.

[01:01:13] With all the books that.

[01:01:14] No, it's a worthwhile mention, I think, in our wrap up.

[01:01:18] So totally, totally agree.

[01:01:21] Daniel 11 is particularly notable for its detailed prophecies that have been fulfilled in historical

[01:01:27] events.

[01:01:28] Blah, blah, blah.

[01:01:29] Which a lot of them were because they were written after the fact.

[01:01:32] They were written after the fact, yeah.

[01:01:33] Right.

[01:01:33] While the latter part of the chapter delves into more eschatological matters, meaning religiousy

[01:01:39] things like, the initial verses provide a remarkable roadmap of ancient history.

[01:01:46] And it really does.

[01:01:47] Yeah.

[01:01:47] I was going to say if, well, I sometimes, yeah.

[01:01:51] All right.

[01:01:51] Right.

[01:01:51] It's not a remarkable thing that happened with regard to the prophecy because it was

[01:01:56] not written.

[01:01:56] No, no.

[01:01:57] These things happening.

[01:01:58] So.

[01:01:58] No, but it allows us to be like, okay, that's one more source of information verifying what

[01:02:04] we know of what happened during this time.

[01:02:06] Right.

[01:02:07] Even though they're trying to pretend that this dude foretold it, clearly that's not what

[01:02:12] happened because magic doesn't exist.

[01:02:14] Right.

[01:02:14] But, you know, the more firsthand sources that you have verifying historical events, the

[01:02:22] better that you can rely on understanding what happened during past times.

[01:02:27] I think I just wish that a lot of Christians were able to admit the truths that scholars have

[01:02:34] uncovered about the Bible.

[01:02:36] Right.

[01:02:36] Like that's the part that frustrates me.

[01:02:38] So Daniel is pretty much accepted that it was written in this timeframe that was after

[01:02:43] the prophecies that were prophesied.

[01:02:45] Sure.

[01:02:45] Right.

[01:02:47] So I, I would love to talk to the Christians that are like, yeah, I accept that.

[01:02:53] That's, that's fine.

[01:02:54] That makes sense.

[01:02:54] We're going to go, we're going to accept that and still believe what we believe.

[01:03:00] But, you know, with the understanding that, yeah, that's, that's probably the way

[01:03:03] that was done.

[01:03:03] So why does faith in God require faith?

[01:03:07] 100% that everything in the Bible happened.

[01:03:11] Yeah.

[01:03:11] Like that doesn't like, why do they have to be mutually exclusive?

[01:03:14] We're already talking about faith.

[01:03:16] I mean, your faith should be secure whether or not the Bible is correct or not.

[01:03:19] Right.

[01:03:20] That does, that should not wrap it up in the Bible.

[01:03:23] And I'm like, that's weird.

[01:03:25] Yeah.

[01:03:25] Faith sounds not good.

[01:03:27] Right.

[01:03:27] Your faith sounds very questionable.

[01:03:29] Well, I think that's what hangs up a lot of Christians when they're discussing their, their

[01:03:33] religion, honestly, is that they, they, they have this need to make the Bible correct.

[01:03:39] Yeah.

[01:03:40] Right.

[01:03:40] And, and what the truth is, is that if you are going to believe this religion and not get

[01:03:46] caught up in the wrongness of the Bible, because there is much wrong with the Bible.

[01:03:52] Sure.

[01:03:53] Then you have to just have the faith that people talk about all the time.

[01:03:57] Right.

[01:03:57] Right.

[01:03:58] Christians talk about this all the time.

[01:03:59] You just have to have faith.

[01:04:01] Yeah.

[01:04:01] You just have to believe.

[01:04:02] Right.

[01:04:03] Yeah.

[01:04:04] I can get behind people that just say they believe.

[01:04:07] Sure.

[01:04:08] If they can also admit the flaws inherent in their religion.

[01:04:12] Right.

[01:04:13] Right.

[01:04:13] Like those are the people that I enjoy talking to.

[01:04:15] Yeah.

[01:04:16] There are, they do exist.

[01:04:17] Because they have questions and they want to know more too.

[01:04:20] Right.

[01:04:20] Yeah.

[01:04:20] But it doesn't have anything to do with their unshakable belief in a God.

[01:04:26] Right.

[01:04:27] And that's the kind of faith and religiosity that I actually kind of admire and find beautiful.

[01:04:36] Look, it'll never be me.

[01:04:37] No.

[01:04:38] I don't have that in me.

[01:04:39] And it's not something that I even want to aspire to.

[01:04:42] Right.

[01:04:43] I don't, I don't want that because I'm comfortable with myself.

[01:04:45] I'm comfortable with what I believe and I'm fine where I'm at, you know, but I can accept,

[01:04:52] I can accept that somebody has faith.

[01:04:54] Mm-hmm.

[01:04:55] I cannot accept that you defend wrong.

[01:04:57] Yeah, exactly.

[01:04:58] That's the, that's the biggest catch point for me with regard to the Bible.

[01:05:03] You just summed everything up for me.

[01:05:05] Thank you.

[01:05:06] All right.

[01:05:07] But let's wrap this up.

[01:05:08] Okay.

[01:05:08] Yeah.

[01:05:08] Here are some key historical events that have been linked to Daniel 11.

[01:05:13] One, the rise and fall of the ancient Greek and, I keep saying Greek, Greek and Ptolemaic

[01:05:20] empires.

[01:05:21] Sure.

[01:05:21] These two dynasties vying for control of the former Persian empire are often seen as the

[01:05:27] king of the north and king of the south respectively.

[01:05:29] Mm-hmm.

[01:05:29] As the conflicts and alliances written in Daniel align remarkably with the historical record.

[01:05:36] Right.

[01:05:36] So, you know, cause it was written after the fact.

[01:05:38] Yeah.

[01:05:38] Two, the Antiochus Epiphanes crisis.

[01:05:42] This ancient Greek king's persecution of the Jews, including the desecration of the

[01:05:47] temple, is a striking fulfillment of prophecies in Daniel 11.

[01:05:51] It's important to note that while many scholars see these historical events as fulfilling specific

[01:05:57] prophecies in Daniel 11, there's also a strong tradition of interpreting the latter part of the

[01:06:03] chapter as pointing to future yet to be fulfilled events.

[01:06:07] Right.

[01:06:07] Okay.

[01:06:08] So, who knows?

[01:06:10] All right.

[01:06:10] Here are some events in Daniel's final vision according to the Jewish versus Christian traditions.

[01:06:18] Okay.

[01:06:18] While interpretations vary, Jewish and or Christian traditions generally see the following core

[01:06:24] themes and key events unfolding in Daniel's final vision.

[01:06:28] Okay.

[01:06:29] So, they see a cosmic battle and divine intervention.

[01:06:33] They see end times and tribulation.

[01:06:37] They see restoration and redemption.

[01:06:40] And I'm going to talk a little bit about each of those.

[01:06:44] Okay.

[01:06:44] So, with cosmic battle and divine intervention, both religions see spiritual warfare and cosmic

[01:06:51] struggle.

[01:06:52] The vision starts with a dramatic portrayal of a cosmic battle between celestial beings representing

[01:06:58] a spiritual conflict between the forces of good and evil.

[01:07:02] Christian belief holds that this foreshadows the spiritual warfare described in the New Testament.

[01:07:09] Okay.

[01:07:09] So, they put a little bit more spin on it.

[01:07:12] Right.

[01:07:12] Okay.

[01:07:13] And then, on top of that, the Christian tradition really builds up the angelic guidance under that

[01:07:22] whole cosmic battle and divine intervention thing.

[01:07:25] Okay.

[01:07:25] Because Daniel receives guidance and revelation from an angelic messenger who unveils the divine

[01:07:31] plan for the future.

[01:07:32] And we will read more about angels in the New Testament.

[01:07:36] Okay.

[01:07:38] All right.

[01:07:38] So, I said both of them have a firm belief in end times and the tribulation.

[01:07:45] So, time of distress.

[01:07:47] Daniel receives a detailed prophetic outline of future world events, including the rise

[01:07:51] and fall of empires, as well as the persecution of God's people.

[01:07:55] The vision offers a glimpse into the end times and foretells a period of great tribulation

[01:08:00] for God's people characterized by severe oppression and intense suffering.

[01:08:04] So, both faiths have that understanding.

[01:08:08] Okay.

[01:08:08] Yeah.

[01:08:09] Desecration of the temple.

[01:08:10] A particularly significant event is the abomination of desolation often interpreted

[01:08:15] as a desecration of the temple in Jerusalem.

[01:08:19] While Jewish tradition attributes this to Antiochus Epiphanes, Christian tradition treats it as the

[01:08:25] eventual coming of a powerful and tyrannical world leader often identified with the Antichrist.

[01:08:30] Okay.

[01:08:31] So, this is where they differ as to future events versus current events.

[01:08:35] But.

[01:08:35] The end times.

[01:08:36] But.

[01:08:37] Yeah.

[01:08:37] It does depend on which sources you read because Jewish tradition recognizes Antiochus Epiphanes

[01:08:47] as that stuff that happened before verse 36 and everything after verse 36 as a future

[01:08:54] some kind of trial and tribulation stuff.

[01:08:57] Okay.

[01:08:57] Because that's where the time of distress they both agree on.

[01:09:01] Got it.

[01:09:02] So, again, it just depends on which Jewish tradition you're going with.

[01:09:07] And this is very generic.

[01:09:08] So, sometimes it'll be one way.

[01:09:10] Sometimes it's the other way.

[01:09:12] Sure.

[01:09:12] Okay.

[01:09:12] All right.

[01:09:13] And last point under end times and tribulation is the final judgment and God's sovereignty.

[01:09:19] Throughout the vision, God's ultimate control over history and human affairs is emphasized.

[01:09:24] This vision culminates in a divine judgment where the righteous will be rewarded and the wicked punished.

[01:09:30] This reinforces the belief in a sovereign God who has a plan for the world.

[01:09:34] And both faiths are okay with that.

[01:09:37] Okay.

[01:09:37] Okay.

[01:09:38] The next point was restoration and redemption.

[01:09:41] Okay.

[01:09:41] The next point is that the faiths have understanding of the messianic hope and national restoration.

[01:09:47] Many Jewish interpretations connect Daniel's vision to the ultimate vindication of the Jewish people, the reestablishment of their sovereignty and the restoration of their land.

[01:10:00] While many Christians see the vision as pointing forward to the coming of the son of man, the Messiah, Jesus Christ, the ultimate deliverer of God's people.

[01:10:09] So, they both see a Messiah and hope in that and national restoration, but they see it a little bit differently from each other.

[01:10:17] Yeah.

[01:10:17] Right.

[01:10:17] Which I thought that was a neat comparison.

[01:10:19] Sure.

[01:10:19] Okay.

[01:10:20] Also, with restoration and redemption, they both see a resurrection, new age, and eternal life.

[01:10:27] Okay.

[01:10:28] Daniel's vision culminates in the resurrection of the dead, a central Christian doctrine.

[01:10:33] The concept of resurrection alludes to the dawn of a new era, celebrating God's kingdom and the establishment of divine justice.

[01:10:41] The righteous will experience eternal life while the wicked will face judgment.

[01:10:46] The Jewish kind of have that.

[01:10:49] They're not like real like excited about it or anything like the Christians are.

[01:10:53] Right.

[01:10:54] But it is part of their book.

[01:10:57] Right.

[01:10:57] So, they're like, yeah, that's a thing.

[01:10:59] Yeah.

[01:10:59] But the Christians are like super excited about it.

[01:11:02] Right.

[01:11:02] All right.

[01:11:04] Moving on.

[01:11:05] While some elements of Daniel's vision have been seen as directly related to historical events, others are understood more symbolically or allegorically.

[01:11:14] And it's crucial to remember that there are general interpretations that both Jewish and Christian scholars have offered several diverse perspectives on.

[01:11:26] Right.

[01:11:26] And the specific timing and nature of these prophecies in various traditions over the centuries have changed dramatically.

[01:11:33] So, the specific details of Daniel's vision remain open to interpretation and debate among scholars.

[01:11:41] Great.

[01:11:42] Meaning we have no idea.

[01:11:43] Right.

[01:11:43] Yeah.

[01:11:44] So, all that to say, I don't know.

[01:11:46] Yeah, exactly.

[01:11:47] Right.

[01:11:48] The book of Daniel is classified as apocalyptic literature.

[01:11:52] Literature.

[01:11:53] Okay.

[01:11:53] A genre common in the second temple period.

[01:11:57] Right.

[01:11:59] Right.

[01:11:59] This genre is characterized by visions, symbolism, and a focus on the end times.

[01:12:05] Yeah.

[01:12:06] It was often used to offer hope and comfort to communities facing oppression.

[01:12:11] I mean, that's exactly what we were saying.

[01:12:13] Yes.

[01:12:13] This whole thing.

[01:12:14] Oh, when I saw that note, I was like, oh, I can't wait till I read this to husband.

[01:12:18] Right.

[01:12:18] Yeah.

[01:12:19] All right.

[01:12:19] I'm almost done.

[01:12:21] A couple more sentences.

[01:12:22] The book of Daniel reflects the concerns and anxieties of Jewish communities living under ancient Greek rule with Antiochus Epiphanes as a particularly cruel figure.

[01:12:33] Remember, we said that his rule was what very likely inspired the writing of the book of Daniel.

[01:12:41] Right.

[01:12:41] So, there it is.

[01:12:43] Right?

[01:12:43] Yeah.

[01:12:44] The visions of persecution and ultimate deliverance can be seen as a response to these historical circumstances and are interpreted by secular scholars as products of the author's imagination influenced by contemporary beliefs and cultural traditions.

[01:13:00] Yeah.

[01:13:01] Right?

[01:13:02] I mean...

[01:13:02] No lies detected.

[01:13:04] Right.

[01:13:04] No arguments for me.

[01:13:05] Yeah.

[01:13:06] While some elements of Daniel 11 can certainly be correlated with specific historical events, the overall prophetic accuracy is obviously inconsistent.

[01:13:15] In essence, the secular perspective on Daniel's final vision is that it's a complex literary work rooted in its historical context rather than a literal blueprint of future events.

[01:13:29] It's a product of imagination and religion reflecting the hopes and fears of a particular time and place.

[01:13:35] Ultimately, as with most biblical literature, the book of Daniel is merely a product of its time.

[01:13:43] The end.

[01:13:45] Yeah.

[01:13:45] Yeah.

[01:13:46] I loved wrapping that up with those final points.

[01:13:50] Yeah.

[01:13:51] Because that is everything that we have said throughout this entire stupid fucking book.

[01:13:56] Right.

[01:13:57] Right.

[01:13:57] I mean, it's...

[01:13:58] Yeah.

[01:13:58] It's the...

[01:13:59] The simple version of this is that it was written by people who were just very...

[01:14:07] They wanted to get back into the swing of their religion, essentially.

[01:14:10] Like, they're here.

[01:14:11] We're back.

[01:14:12] We finally got rid of the...

[01:14:13] We're governing ourselves finally again after hundreds of years.

[01:14:17] Mm-hmm.

[01:14:17] And there's no more strife right now.

[01:14:19] Yay!

[01:14:20] Go Jerusalem!

[01:14:21] Let's celebrate and write some fucking shit that makes us sound great.

[01:14:25] Yay!

[01:14:26] I mean, right?

[01:14:26] Yeah.

[01:14:26] That's basically it.

[01:14:27] Let's get together.

[01:14:28] Let's try to be excited for ourselves and see what we can do to move forward together.

[01:14:33] Yeah.

[01:14:34] Sure.

[01:14:34] And I accept it fully on those premises.

[01:14:37] Yeah.

[01:14:37] Sure.

[01:14:37] But it's so many other things to so many other people that...

[01:14:41] Yeah.

[01:14:41] That's where it starts becoming a problem.

[01:14:44] So problematic.

[01:14:45] Yeah.

[01:14:46] So, I think that's all we had for our Q&A today.

[01:14:49] I think that's more than enough.

[01:14:50] I think it is because we're at like an hour and 15 minutes on this episode.

[01:14:54] Jesus Christ!

[01:14:55] Yeah.

[01:14:55] So, thanks for...

[01:14:57] If you stuck through it, thanks for sticking through.

[01:15:00] And I hope you learned something today.

[01:15:02] I did.

[01:15:02] I think it was a good breakdown of the timeframes and to understand it a little bit better because

[01:15:08] the back and forth in 11 especially was really, really rough.

[01:15:13] Yeah.

[01:15:14] It wasn't much less rough in the Q&A, but at least we have dates and names and understandings.

[01:15:19] I enjoyed knowing the names of the people and the countries that they represented.

[01:15:25] Right.

[01:15:25] Like, that helped me a little bit.

[01:15:27] Sure.

[01:15:27] It was still a lot because their names happened to be the same a lot of the time.

[01:15:32] Yeah.

[01:15:32] Which you might as well have just said North and South and North and South.

[01:15:35] Antichess and Silica...

[01:15:39] Silica...

[01:15:40] Silica...

[01:15:41] Whatever.

[01:15:41] Yeah.

[01:15:43] Alright, let's get out of here.

[01:15:45] Alright.

[01:15:45] Bye guys.

[01:15:46] Bye!