Obadiah Q&A and Wrap Up: Bible Study by Atheists

[00:00:00] Welcome to Sacrilegious Discourse.

[00:00:01] For this is what the Sovereign Lord says!

[00:00:03] Why do you need prophets to tell people who you are and what you want?

[00:00:07] If you can justify everything that the God of the Bible has done, then you can justify any of your behavior.

[00:00:14] A lot of this mentality is trickling into what is now mainstream right-wing Christianity.

[00:00:21] I am capable of empathy greater than this God of the Bible.

[00:00:26] This is a Bible that they tell kids. This is the good Lord. This is the good book.

[00:00:32] He is fantasizing about murder, mass murder.

[00:00:37] Head over to SacrilegiousDiscourse.com right now to find out how to leave us a review or support us on Patreon.

[00:00:51] Jetzt ist Herbst und bald stehen schon wieder die Feiertage vor der Tür.

[00:00:55] Das kann auch für Hunde ganz schön stressig sein.

[00:00:58] Viele Vierbeine reagieren unter anderem mit einer gestörten Verdauung.

[00:01:01] Und das ist wiederum Stress für Ihre Besitzer.

[00:01:04] Aber es gibt schnelle und einfache Hilfe.

[00:01:07] Das Probiotikum Purina Proplan Forti Flora.

[00:01:10] Streu einfach einen Beutel über das tägliche Futter.

[00:01:13] Die außergewöhnliche Zusammensetzung mit lebenden guten Darmbakterien stellt das Gleichgewicht im Darm wieder her.

[00:01:19] Natürlich kannst du Proplan Forti Flora auch präventiv oder bei alltäglichen Verdauungsbeschwerden einsetzen.

[00:01:25] Es unterstützt auch bei Ernährungsumstellungen oder Antibiotika-Einnahme.

[00:01:29] Purina Proplan Forti Flora.

[00:01:31] Jetzt auf shop.purina.de

[00:01:39] Das war's für heute.

[00:01:40] Das war's für heute.

[00:01:43] Wir haben uns das ganze Zeit, die wir in einem ganzen Tag gemacht haben.

[00:01:44] In einem Tag.

[00:01:46] In einem ganzen Tag.

[00:01:47] In einem ganzen Tag.

[00:01:47] In einem ganzen Tag.

[00:01:48] Ja.

[00:01:49] Boom.

[00:01:50] Da geht Obadiah.

[00:01:51] Da geht Obadiah.

[00:01:52] Ja.

[00:01:52] So das muss mean that today we're doing...

[00:01:55] A Q&A and a wrap-up.

[00:01:58] Not on Saturday, because what the fuck.

[00:02:02] Das war's für heute.

[00:02:03] I like it.

[00:02:04] I'm impressed.

[00:02:05] Das war's für heute.

[00:02:05] Das war's für heute.

[00:02:05] Das war's für heute.

[00:02:08] So do you have some good questions and wrap-up stuff for us today?

[00:02:11] I do.

[00:02:12] I have some interesting extraneous data.

[00:02:14] Yeah.

[00:02:15] That is probably pointless, but that I found interesting.

[00:02:19] And you probably will be like, when do you do that?

[00:02:23] And I think that other people will be like, husband, it is interesting.

[00:02:28] Stop.

[00:02:29] Okay.

[00:02:30] So that's how you think this is going to go?

[00:02:31] Okay.

[00:02:32] Well, let's go find out.

[00:02:34] Okay.

[00:02:34] All right.

[00:02:41] Let's talk about this book of Obadiah.

[00:02:43] Okay.

[00:02:44] So, normally I would go back over the intro stuff, but that was...

[00:02:48] That was yesterday.

[00:02:49] Yesterday.

[00:02:49] Yeah.

[00:02:50] Yeah.

[00:02:50] Yeah.

[00:02:50] So, I'm just going to do a quick recap in that it's a guy named Obadiah who may or may not

[00:02:58] have actually existed.

[00:02:59] There were like seven other Obadiahs in the Bible mentioned.

[00:03:04] Oh.

[00:03:05] And it may have been one of them or it may have been none of them.

[00:03:08] I see.

[00:03:09] Okay.

[00:03:09] Okay.

[00:03:10] And this whole book is exactly one chapter, which takes up the front of one page.

[00:03:17] Right.

[00:03:17] And is only like 21 verses.

[00:03:20] Yeah.

[00:03:21] So...

[00:03:22] It's really fucking short.

[00:03:23] Pretty fucking short.

[00:03:23] Right.

[00:03:24] And it is about judgment against Israel's brother Edom or Esau.

[00:03:30] Right.

[00:03:30] Okay.

[00:03:31] Whom the Edomites descend from.

[00:03:35] Right.

[00:03:35] Okay.

[00:03:35] Yep.

[00:03:36] So, the book of Obadiah is a prophecy concerning the fall and the subsequent divine judgment

[00:03:42] of Edom, a mountain-dwelling nation whose founding father was Esau.

[00:03:47] Got it.

[00:03:48] Okay.

[00:03:48] Yep.

[00:03:49] So, we start with Edom's sin and God's judgment against them.

[00:03:54] Okay.

[00:03:54] And before we even hop into the first verse though, let me just let you know, the Hebrew

[00:03:59] name Obadiah means worshiper of Yahweh or Yahweh.

[00:04:05] Yahweh.

[00:04:05] Yahweh.

[00:04:06] Sorry.

[00:04:08] Worshipper of Yahweh or servant of Yahweh.

[00:04:12] Oh, that's convenient.

[00:04:13] Which is like actually kind of synonymous, worship and servant.

[00:04:18] Right.

[00:04:18] Yeah.

[00:04:18] And fear-trodden, bendy boy.

[00:04:22] The really apt names that these prophets have make me think that they weren't actual people.

[00:04:32] Well, I'm going to push back on that because there's a lot of people alive today who named

[00:04:37] their kids like some really weird things.

[00:04:40] Sure.

[00:04:40] Like, did you hear the one about the people who they named their daughter Khaleesi but

[00:04:47] then they couldn't get any ID for her because they were like, that's not a real name.

[00:04:51] And they were like, the hell you say?

[00:04:53] Hmm.

[00:04:54] Yeah.

[00:04:54] I didn't hear about that, no.

[00:04:56] I want to say it was like somewhere in England or Ireland or Scotland or something like that.

[00:05:00] And they were like, no, it's a name because we said so.

[00:05:03] Right.

[00:05:03] Right.

[00:05:04] And, you know, Elon Musk over there in America named his kids something like XZ241 or whatever

[00:05:10] the fuck.

[00:05:11] Right.

[00:05:11] You know?

[00:05:12] Yeah.

[00:05:12] So, I mean, people named their kids after other people.

[00:05:18] Well, and I guess I'll push back on my own idea because I think a lot of the prophets

[00:05:23] were generally, it was kind of like a birthright to be a prophet somewhat.

[00:05:27] Like, it stemmed from the, your lot in life at some level.

[00:05:31] Yeah.

[00:05:31] Right.

[00:05:31] Yeah.

[00:05:32] So, maybe the parents would name their kids with the knowledge that they're probably going

[00:05:37] to end up being a prophet.

[00:05:38] Right.

[00:05:39] You know what I mean?

[00:05:39] You're going to be something in the church because that's the way it goes.

[00:05:43] Right.

[00:05:43] Yeah.

[00:05:43] Because our family is of the church.

[00:05:45] Right.

[00:05:46] So, it's kind of like naming your kid Winner.

[00:05:49] Yeah.

[00:05:49] You are going to be that.

[00:05:51] Yeah.

[00:05:51] So, either they were completely indoctrinated insofar as like all the way to the name,

[00:05:56] their name that their parents gave them.

[00:05:58] Mm-hmm.

[00:05:58] Or, they were kind of made up.

[00:06:01] Yeah.

[00:06:01] One of the two.

[00:06:02] Yeah.

[00:06:03] That's how I see it anyway.

[00:06:04] Sure.

[00:06:05] Well, let's talk about the Edomites a little bit.

[00:06:07] Yeah.

[00:06:07] They were the people descended from Esau, the son of Isaac and Rebecca, and the brother

[00:06:12] of Jacob.

[00:06:13] Okay.

[00:06:13] That story was all talked about in Genesis chapter 25.

[00:06:17] Right.

[00:06:17] You know, the twin that was supposed to have the birthright, but Jacob, the son of a bitch,

[00:06:23] ends up being like the sympathetic good guy.

[00:06:25] Like, we're supposed to be like, yay, Jacob.

[00:06:28] And I'm like, but you were a rat fuck from the day one.

[00:06:32] Yeah.

[00:06:32] Yeah.

[00:06:32] He was kind of an asshole.

[00:06:33] Like, it struck me again as I was like studying this, like, wait, you actually weren't the

[00:06:39] good guy like ever, but you're the main character that we're supposed to like, oh, yes, we are

[00:06:44] talking about Jacob's story.

[00:06:46] Yeah.

[00:06:46] Like, poor Esau still.

[00:06:48] Yeah.

[00:06:49] But Esau got fucked then and he's getting fucked now.

[00:06:51] Yeah.

[00:06:51] So, you know, justice for Esau is what I'm going to say.

[00:06:56] So, Esau was nicknamed Edom, which means red.

[00:06:59] And we talked about that at the time because dude had red hair.

[00:07:03] Okay.

[00:07:03] All right.

[00:07:04] Yeah.

[00:07:04] And we talked about that way back in Genesis.

[00:07:06] That was something that I brought to the table.

[00:07:09] I vaguely remember that.

[00:07:09] Okay.

[00:07:09] I didn't remember it until I read it and I was like, oh, yeah.

[00:07:12] Right.

[00:07:13] So, Esau eventually settled in the area of Mount Seir and absorbed a people known as the

[00:07:19] Horites.

[00:07:20] And that was discussed in Genesis chapter 36.

[00:07:23] Okay.

[00:07:24] When Israel came out of Egypt and wanted to pass through the land of the Edomites to enter

[00:07:28] into the promised land.

[00:07:31] Right.

[00:07:31] The Edomites wouldn't let them.

[00:07:33] Yeah.

[00:07:33] And probably because Esau was like, no, fuck you, Jacob.

[00:07:38] Yeah.

[00:07:38] You have my birthright.

[00:07:40] Like go around.

[00:07:41] Right.

[00:07:41] You know, you, you don't get to have everything.

[00:07:44] So that was described in numbers chapter 20.

[00:07:47] Sure.

[00:07:48] Okay.

[00:07:48] The Edomites opposed Saul and were conquered under David and Solomon.

[00:07:52] And that was covered in first Samuel, second Samuel and first Kings.

[00:07:57] Okay.

[00:07:58] In the days of King Jehoshaphat of Judah, Edom joined with Moab and Ammon to attack Judah,

[00:08:06] but the Lord fought for Judah and defeated them.

[00:08:10] And that was described in second Chronicles.

[00:08:12] Okay.

[00:08:13] Then the Edomites successfully rebelled against King Jehoram of Judah.

[00:08:18] And that was in second Kings.

[00:08:20] Oh, but King Amaziah of Judah brought them back under subjugation.

[00:08:26] Oh, man.

[00:08:27] That was again in second Kings.

[00:08:29] The Edomites again tagged Judah in the days of King Ahaz in second Chronicles.

[00:08:35] And the Edomites fought side by side with the Jews in the rebellion against Rome in

[00:08:39] AD 66 to 70 and were crushed by Rome never to be heard of as a people again, which rendered

[00:08:47] the predictions of Obadiah chapters one or chapter one versus 10 and 18.

[00:08:55] True.

[00:08:56] And I'll read those verses.

[00:08:57] Sure.

[00:08:58] But the timing is in the manner in which it happened is kind of questionable.

[00:09:04] I don't want to hear your because they were helping.

[00:09:06] They were fighting with the Israelites.

[00:09:08] Yes.

[00:09:08] But listen.

[00:09:09] Okay.

[00:09:09] I'm listening.

[00:09:10] So verse 10 of Obadiah reads, because of the violence against your brother, Jacob,

[00:09:15] you will be covered with shame and you will be destroyed forever.

[00:09:19] You know, someday.

[00:09:20] Yeah, sure.

[00:09:21] And that someday came true when it happened.

[00:09:24] When they were helping the Israelites.

[00:09:26] Yeah.

[00:09:26] Okay.

[00:09:26] In the 80s.

[00:09:28] Yeah.

[00:09:28] Yeah.

[00:09:28] That makes no fucking sense.

[00:09:30] Oh, you just stop now.

[00:09:31] Okay.

[00:09:32] The Bible's always right.

[00:09:40] Stubble and they will set them on fire and destroy them.

[00:09:43] There will be no survivors from Esau.

[00:09:45] The Lord has spoken.

[00:09:46] I see.

[00:09:47] You know, trash.

[00:09:48] Uh-huh.

[00:09:49] And then guess what?

[00:09:50] Several hundred years later, it happened.

[00:09:52] Wow.

[00:09:53] That was more than several hundred.

[00:09:55] It was like going on over 500.

[00:09:59] What?

[00:10:00] Yeah.

[00:10:00] Okay.

[00:10:00] No, you're right.

[00:10:01] You're right.

[00:10:02] Sorry.

[00:10:02] I had to math it.

[00:10:03] No, you're right.

[00:10:04] Yeah.

[00:10:04] All right.

[00:10:05] So verse three, we're going back to the beginning of the book now.

[00:10:09] Okay.

[00:10:09] Okay.

[00:10:10] Verse three and four read, the pride of your heart has deceived you.

[00:10:14] You who live in the clefts of the rocks and make your home on the heights.

[00:10:18] You who say to yourself, who can bring me down to the ground?

[00:10:22] Though you soar like the eagle and make your nest among the stars.

[00:10:26] From there, I will bring you down, declares the Lord.

[00:10:29] I'm assuming this is because they lived around where Mount Sir is.

[00:10:32] It was very mountainous land.

[00:10:33] Yeah.

[00:10:34] We're going to talk about that because that city is fucking cool.

[00:10:38] Is it?

[00:10:38] Yeah.

[00:10:38] Yeah.

[00:10:39] And that's what I'm bringing to the table as my extraneous data.

[00:10:42] Okay.

[00:10:43] So the Edomites didn't have all that much to be proud of, according to, you know, the

[00:10:47] people who...

[00:10:48] The people who didn't like them?

[00:10:49] Yeah.

[00:10:49] Yeah.

[00:10:49] The apologist who wrote the note that I'm reading from.

[00:10:53] That's not very trustworthy.

[00:10:54] No, no.

[00:10:55] Okay.

[00:10:55] No.

[00:10:56] No.

[00:10:56] No.

[00:11:24] I, again, sourced this from more than one place.

[00:11:25] Sure.

[00:11:25] What they could be proud of, they were.

[00:11:27] And they had some shit to be proud of.

[00:11:30] Okay.

[00:11:30] They were not actually insignificant.

[00:11:32] Well, I mean, as you were saying that, I guess my thoughts went immediately to like

[00:11:36] the Native Americans, right?

[00:11:42] Right.

[00:11:44] As far as the quantity of and how they've been treated and where they've been subjugated

[00:11:49] to live and all that.

[00:11:50] Right.

[00:11:50] Sure.

[00:11:50] But they have a lot of pride.

[00:11:52] Yeah.

[00:11:52] They have a lot of, you know...

[00:11:53] And they have a lot to be proud of.

[00:11:55] And they have a lot to be proud of.

[00:11:56] Yeah.

[00:11:56] Right.

[00:11:56] So, I mean...

[00:11:57] It's all in the eye of the beholder.

[00:11:59] Right.

[00:12:00] Right.

[00:12:00] Who's telling the story.

[00:12:01] Exactly.

[00:12:02] And that's...

[00:12:02] I don't like the way this is...

[00:12:04] That that apologist decided to, you know, phrase that.

[00:12:09] Yeah.

[00:12:09] Totally agree.

[00:12:11] So, they lived in an area of great natural fortifications and strength.

[00:12:15] So, they boasted about the clefts of the rocks around them.

[00:12:19] Sure.

[00:12:19] Okay.

[00:12:20] Enclosed by towering rocks and watered by a perennial stream, their city controlled the

[00:12:26] main commercial routes which passed through it.

[00:12:29] Oh.

[00:12:29] So, they were not insignificant.

[00:12:32] Sounds like they actually had a lot of power, maybe.

[00:12:33] Yeah.

[00:12:35] The routes...

[00:12:36] The commercial routes that passed through it led to Gaza in the west, to Damascus in

[00:12:41] the north, to important cities on the Red Sea, and across the desert to what we now call

[00:12:46] the Persian Gulf.

[00:12:47] Hmm.

[00:12:47] So, they were a major hub.

[00:12:48] Yeah.

[00:12:49] So, fuck off.

[00:12:50] You know?

[00:12:51] Their city not only served as a trading hub, but also possessed the advantages of a fortress,

[00:12:56] you know, because of where they were located with the rocks and the caves, right?

[00:12:59] Yeah.

[00:12:59] Sure.

[00:13:00] So, the Edomites also, those bitches, they boasted about their secure defenses.

[00:13:05] Hmm.

[00:13:06] The ancient city of Petra.

[00:13:08] This is so cool.

[00:13:09] I'm just like, wowed out over this, okay?

[00:13:13] Okay.

[00:13:16] Okay.

[00:13:20] Okay.

[00:13:21] Amazing defenses.

[00:13:22] It is a city carved into the rock, accessible by a narrow canyon almost a mile long.

[00:13:28] At the end of the canyon, there is a spectacular city carved in stone and seemingly incapable of

[00:13:35] being conquered by any army.

[00:13:37] Wow.

[00:13:38] Petra is the Greek word for rock, and it has the same root as, you know, petrified.

[00:13:45] Right.

[00:13:45] Petrified wood, petrified forest.

[00:13:47] Sure.

[00:13:47] Petrified meaning scared stiff.

[00:13:49] Right.

[00:13:50] You know, that kind of thing.

[00:13:51] Sure.

[00:13:51] So, Petra, that city of rock, is a historic and archaeological city in southern Jordan,

[00:13:59] famous for its rock-cut architecture and water conduit systems.

[00:14:03] Petra is also called the Rose City because of the color of the sandstone from which it is carved.

[00:14:09] The city is one of the new seven wonders of the world.

[00:14:14] Wow.

[00:14:14] And a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

[00:14:18] Wow.

[00:14:18] Right?

[00:14:19] Like, I got goosebumps reading that out loud.

[00:14:21] Yeah.

[00:14:21] Sounds like that apologists, like, really undersold the importance and longevity of this place.

[00:14:29] Yeah.

[00:14:29] Right?

[00:14:30] Right.

[00:14:30] So, the Edomite site, excavated at the top of the Om El Bayara mountain at Petra,

[00:14:36] was established no earlier than the 7th century BCE.

[00:14:40] Hmm.

[00:14:41] The area around Petra has been inhabited from as early as 7,000 BCE and was settled by a nomadic Arab people in the 4th century BCE.

[00:14:53] Okay.

[00:14:53] Petra is listed in various Egyptian campaign accounts dating from the Bronze Age.

[00:14:59] And the Bronze Age lasted about 2,000 years from 3,300 BCE to 1,200 BCE, just to put that in context.

[00:15:07] The Iron Age lasted between 1,200 and 600 BCE.

[00:15:11] And in that time period, the Petra area was occupied by the Edomites.

[00:15:16] Hmm.

[00:15:17] Okay?

[00:15:17] Okay.

[00:15:18] The configuration of mountains in Petra allowed for a reservoir of water for the Edomites.

[00:15:24] Like I said, they had that perpetual stream just coming in.

[00:15:27] Yeah.

[00:15:27] So, they had fresh water right in their little city, just flowing all the time.

[00:15:32] Very cool.

[00:15:33] This made Petra a stopping ground for merchants, making it an outstanding area for trade.

[00:15:39] Hmm.

[00:15:40] Items of trade included wines, olive oil, and wood.

[00:15:44] I'm so sorry, but why were they insignificant?

[00:15:47] Fuck off.

[00:15:47] Right.

[00:15:48] Sounds like they had a lot of, uh...

[00:15:50] A lot to be proud of.

[00:15:51] Yeah.

[00:15:51] Definitely.

[00:15:51] Initially, the Edomites were accompanied by nomads who eventually left, but the Edomites stayed and made their mark on Petra.

[00:16:00] Petra would later become the capital city of the Nabataean kingdom in the 2nd century BCE.

[00:16:07] Okay.

[00:16:07] The Nabataeans invested in Petra's proximity to the incense trade routes by establishing it as a major regional trading hub, which gained them considerable revenue.

[00:16:19] Hmm.

[00:16:19] Unlike their enemies, the Nabataeans were accustomed to living in the barren deserts and thus were able to defend their kingdom.

[00:16:27] They were particularly skillful in agriculture, stone carving, and rainwater harvesting.

[00:16:34] Petra flourished in the 1st century AD, but fell to the Romans, as we've already said, in 106 AD, but annexed and renamed it as Arabia Petraea.

[00:16:45] Okay.

[00:16:46] You know, as the Romans do.

[00:16:48] Right.

[00:16:48] Petra's importance declined as sea trade routes emerged and, after an earthquake in 363 AD, destroyed many of the structures.

[00:16:58] That's sad.

[00:16:59] Right?

[00:17:00] In the Byzantine era, several Christian churches were built, but the city continued to decline, and by the early Islamic era, it was abandoned except for a handful of nomads.

[00:17:11] I think it's Byzantine.

[00:17:12] Is it?

[00:17:13] I believe so.

[00:17:14] Okay.

[00:17:14] But I just, I don't, I don't want to say that like with 100% authority, but I think it's Byzantine.

[00:17:19] Byzantine.

[00:17:19] Yeah.

[00:17:20] I always say Byzantine.

[00:17:21] I believe you.

[00:17:22] And I apologize.

[00:17:24] I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure.

[00:17:26] Well, you know how I'm better in my head than out loud.

[00:17:30] The city remained unknown to the Western world until 1812.

[00:17:37] Oh, wow.

[00:17:38] When Swiss traveler Johann Ludwig Burkhardt rediscovered it.

[00:17:43] Huh.

[00:17:43] The fuck, right?

[00:17:44] Yeah.

[00:17:45] Local folklore says this city was created by the wand of Moses when he struck the rock to bring forth water for the Israelites.

[00:17:55] Oh, wow.

[00:17:57] And is where Moses' brother Haran, or Aaron, is buried at Mount Hor, known today as Jabal Haran, or Mount Aaron.

[00:18:07] Wow.

[00:18:07] Right?

[00:18:08] Yeah.

[00:18:08] The Wadi Musa, or Wadi of Moses, is the Arab name for the narrow valley at the head of which Petra is sited.

[00:18:18] A mountaintop shrine of Moses' sister Miriam was still shown to pilgrims at the time of Jerome in the 4th century, but its location has not been identified since.

[00:18:30] But still, that's really interesting.

[00:18:32] Right?

[00:18:32] Yeah.

[00:18:33] Yeah.

[00:18:33] I was like, oh my God, everything about this city is cool.

[00:18:36] Yeah.

[00:18:36] New evidence indicates that broader Edomite and thus Nabataean theology had strong links to Earth-Sun relationships, often manastated in the orientation of prominent Petra structures to equinox and solstice sunrises and sunsets.

[00:18:55] Okay.

[00:18:55] Kind of like how we discovered, oh shit, Stonehenge.

[00:19:00] Right.

[00:19:00] How we discovered, oh, it's not just a random circle of stones, they're actually a fucking calendar, my bad.

[00:19:05] You said manastated.

[00:19:07] I don't know that word.

[00:19:08] Is that a...

[00:19:09] Manifested.

[00:19:10] Manifested.

[00:19:10] Okay.

[00:19:12] Manifested.

[00:19:12] You said manastated.

[00:19:14] Well, you know, that's how I be.

[00:19:17] Sorry, I just, I had to, I wasn't sure what I thought maybe that was the wrong word.

[00:19:23] Sorry.

[00:19:23] Sorry.

[00:19:24] I'm doing a lot of fuck-ups.

[00:19:25] It's okay.

[00:19:26] I think my brain is regressing, honestly.

[00:19:29] Maybe I'm like RFK and I got a brain worm.

[00:19:32] There you go.

[00:19:32] Yeah.

[00:19:33] Yeah.

[00:19:33] So anyway, these folks were, they were worshiping sun and moon gods and goddesses.

[00:19:41] Okay.

[00:19:41] Much like the later Greeks and Romans.

[00:19:44] Right.

[00:19:44] So location, fortification, those are things that the Edomites boasted about.

[00:19:50] They also boasted about their wisdom.

[00:19:52] The men of Edom, especially of the city Taman, were noted for their wisdom.

[00:19:58] The phrase, quote, men of the East, which has been something we've heard in the Old Testament.

[00:20:05] Yeah.

[00:20:05] Often refers to men from Edom and passages like 1 Kings chapter 4 verse 30 declare the great wisdom of the men of the East.

[00:20:15] And I'm going to read that verse.

[00:20:17] Solomon's wisdom was greater than the wisdom of all the people of the East and greater than all the wisdom of Egypt.

[00:20:24] So that's who they were talking about, these Edomites.

[00:20:27] Okay.

[00:20:27] Like, I had no idea.

[00:20:29] Yeah.

[00:20:29] And then also in Jeremiah chapter 49 verse 7, it says, concerning Edom, this is what the Lord Almighty says.

[00:20:37] Is there no longer wisdom in Taman?

[00:20:40] Has counsel perished from the prudent?

[00:20:43] Has their wisdom decayed?

[00:20:44] So, I mean, they were very much known for their wisdom.

[00:20:47] And I guess that's why they boasted about it.

[00:20:50] Right.

[00:20:51] Right.

[00:20:51] You know, insignificant, huh?

[00:20:54] So location, fortification and wisdom were all sources of great pride for the Edomites.

[00:20:59] Okay.

[00:21:00] And then they got in trouble for being too awesome.

[00:21:02] Yeah.

[00:21:03] And not letting son of a bitch Jacob people travel through their land.

[00:21:09] Right.

[00:21:10] Right.

[00:21:10] That's what this really was about, I think.

[00:21:12] Yeah.

[00:21:12] Oh, yeah.

[00:21:12] No, I mean, they were seen biblically as an enemy of, you know, the Israelites and Jacob.

[00:21:18] But if we look back to the very fucking beginnings, I'm kind of on Edom's side.

[00:21:25] Look, I would like to hear their story.

[00:21:27] How about that?

[00:21:28] Yeah.

[00:21:28] No, I think that's the part that's, you know, when you read strictly from the biblical perspective

[00:21:33] is that you're missing out on the stories of these other groups of people that existed

[00:21:38] and had their own stories.

[00:21:39] Right.

[00:21:40] Right.

[00:21:40] That's the part that you miss out on.

[00:21:42] Well, I just, I hate that.

[00:21:44] I hate that.

[00:21:45] Like, they're like, yeah.

[00:21:47] And Jacob was a son of a bitch and stole the birthright.

[00:21:50] And isn't that great?

[00:21:51] And Jews descend from him to this day.

[00:21:54] And there are great people.

[00:21:55] And I'm like, hold on, hold on.

[00:21:57] Rewind just a sec.

[00:21:58] Right.

[00:21:59] Why is he a hero again now?

[00:22:01] Why is he great?

[00:22:02] Well, and that's something that I personally have thought about is that because you know

[00:22:06] how much I love history.

[00:22:08] I would love to do, like, if we were doing this full time, I would love, like,

[00:22:12] as far as we had a full time to dedicate to the podcast as opposed to doing it in our

[00:22:17] spare time.

[00:22:17] Right?

[00:22:17] Yeah.

[00:22:18] I would love to do a series on the history of the Bible.

[00:22:24] But by the history of the Bible, I mean the history surrounding the Bible.

[00:22:28] Like, what was happening actually in the world that we're not talking about in the Bible?

[00:22:33] Yeah.

[00:22:34] When something comes up, I'd rather talk about, like, take the, what I would love to do

[00:22:39] is take the timeline of the Bible.

[00:22:40] Right.

[00:22:40] And then take the things that, the people that interact with the Israelites and talk about

[00:22:49] those events.

[00:22:51] Talk about those people.

[00:22:52] Yeah.

[00:22:52] Talk about those cultures.

[00:22:53] From a historical reference point instead of the biblical reference point.

[00:22:58] Right.

[00:22:58] Yeah.

[00:22:58] We can use the Bible as a timeline reference.

[00:23:00] Yeah.

[00:23:01] But talk about the other side of it.

[00:23:02] Talk about the other cultures.

[00:23:04] Right.

[00:23:05] Real quick, though.

[00:23:06] Speaking of which, you said something about the Romans being sun and moon worshipers.

[00:23:12] You know, they were only, like, after they conquered the Edomites, which you said was

[00:23:16] 66 CE, I believe.

[00:23:19] I already don't remember.

[00:23:20] Or no, it was like 10 something.

[00:23:21] It was 100 something.

[00:23:23] I'm sorry.

[00:23:23] You know I don't hold numbers.

[00:23:24] No, that's right.

[00:23:25] But it was 100 something.

[00:23:26] So, but the Romans actually became Christian more or less shortly after the 300 CE timeframe.

[00:23:34] So they were only, like, actually worshiping Roman gods for, like, maybe another couple

[00:23:37] hundred years after that.

[00:23:38] That's very interesting.

[00:23:40] Just FYI.

[00:23:41] Because, like, we always associate the Romans with the Greeks.

[00:23:46] And, you know, they all had the same gods and goddesses.

[00:23:49] More ish.

[00:23:51] Yeah.

[00:23:51] They were different names.

[00:23:52] But yeah.

[00:23:52] Right.

[00:23:53] But they serve the same purposes.

[00:23:55] Right.

[00:23:55] Yeah.

[00:23:55] And so in my head, that's just what they do.

[00:23:58] And I never thought of the Romans as becoming Christian.

[00:24:02] Well, and the Greeks would have probably too, right?

[00:24:05] Because they had the Greek Septuagint.

[00:24:07] Like, it became Greek Orthodox Church.

[00:24:10] That's true.

[00:24:10] That whole Greek aspect to the...

[00:24:12] No, you're right.

[00:24:13] Of course, when we call them Christian, we're referring to Catholicism, not the Christianity

[00:24:20] of the Americas as we know it today.

[00:24:22] Right.

[00:24:22] And that's an important distinction to make.

[00:24:25] Sure.

[00:24:25] Because it ain't the same.

[00:24:27] Right, right.

[00:24:28] And it's actually, Catholicism is quite pagan and is where the early adoption of turning

[00:24:37] the Greek and Roman religions into something that they could all practice together.

[00:24:44] Yeah.

[00:24:44] That's where that all started.

[00:24:46] Right.

[00:24:46] So, again, the Christianity in the Americas today is not the source of...

[00:24:52] Not the same as the source of where it sprang from.

[00:24:55] Oh, yeah.

[00:24:55] Definitely not.

[00:24:56] It's just, I forget that.

[00:24:57] Like, when they're like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, they became Christian.

[00:24:59] And I'm like, oh, but wait a minute.

[00:25:04] They...

[00:25:04] Like, we need a different word.

[00:25:06] You know?

[00:25:07] They became Christian, yes, but different Christian from what today is.

[00:25:13] They became Catholic.

[00:25:14] They became very early, like, still pagan.

[00:25:19] Sure.

[00:25:20] You know?

[00:25:20] Sure.

[00:25:21] They became monotheistic and called it Christianity, which eventually developed into what America

[00:25:27] calls it today.

[00:25:28] Right.

[00:25:28] Like, that's just, like, a whole sentence that I need to keep in my head.

[00:25:33] Right.

[00:25:33] That I always forget about.

[00:25:35] Yeah.

[00:25:36] All right.

[00:25:37] Let's move on.

[00:25:38] Sure.

[00:25:38] Okay?

[00:25:38] So, we're leaving Petra behind, but it's always going to be in my heart.

[00:25:44] All right.

[00:25:45] So, we're moving on, and then God gives his judgment against Edom and says it'll be complete.

[00:25:51] Okay?

[00:25:51] So, God further states that no remnant will remain, and that the enemy will search out

[00:25:56] his people and totally subdue them, and that none of their allies will stand by them.

[00:26:01] They suck, and they'll be alone.

[00:26:03] See, that's where it goes wrong, though, right?

[00:26:04] Because they were literally allied with, you know, the Israelites.

[00:26:08] The Nebaians, and yeah.

[00:26:10] So, whatever.

[00:26:11] Okay.

[00:26:12] When the enemy soldiers plunder Edom, they will take everything.

[00:26:16] They will seize even the treasures that the Edomites have hidden in caves in the mountains.

[00:26:22] Edom prided itself in its political skill and military strategy.

[00:26:26] Its leaders thought they were cleverer than the leaders of neighboring nations, and often

[00:26:33] use their cunning to cheat their allies, those cheaters.

[00:26:36] From the perspective of someone who doesn't like them.

[00:26:39] Yeah.

[00:26:39] Right.

[00:26:39] And who would rather be the one doing the cheating.

[00:26:42] Right.

[00:26:42] Yeah.

[00:26:43] Yeah.

[00:26:43] Cheaters always accuse others of cheating.

[00:26:45] How do you cheat at war, anyway?

[00:26:46] I don't really understand that concept exactly.

[00:26:48] I don't know.

[00:26:49] I mean, there are bad ways to wage wars, I suppose, in polite society.

[00:26:55] Well, I mean...

[00:26:55] We have war crimes today.

[00:26:58] Yeah.

[00:26:58] And so, if somebody commits war crimes, we would consider that a form of cheating at war.

[00:27:04] Definitely.

[00:27:05] But, again, I think war is an atrocity in and of itself.

[00:27:08] Right?

[00:27:09] Right?

[00:27:09] It's like, we've agreed how to kill each other.

[00:27:12] Right.

[00:27:12] There are only certain things that we can do when we agree to kill each other.

[00:27:16] What?

[00:27:16] Yeah.

[00:27:17] It's such a weird concept.

[00:27:19] It is, and it isn't, but it is.

[00:27:22] As long as we're going to kill each other, let's agree to do it as nicely as possible,

[00:27:26] but only sometimes and under certain circumstances.

[00:27:29] Yeah.

[00:27:29] And, I mean, if either one of us can get away with cheating, totally that's fine.

[00:27:33] Well, yeah.

[00:27:34] Yeah.

[00:27:35] And countries push the boundaries all the time, even today.

[00:27:38] So, I'm like, so why not just not?

[00:27:41] Why are we pretending that murder in stages is okay?

[00:27:45] Right.

[00:27:45] Like, why don't we stop calling it war with, you know, human rights and stuff,

[00:27:52] and why don't we just call it murdering nations?

[00:27:54] We're going at murder.

[00:27:56] Everybody, you know, sign up for the military and support your country in murder today.

[00:28:01] Yeah.

[00:28:02] I think even the most, like, let's take World War II, for example, right?

[00:28:07] Mm-hmm.

[00:28:08] Even the Allied side did some horrific things, right?

[00:28:13] We always hear the wonderful shit that the Allies did, right?

[00:28:16] Sure.

[00:28:16] The greatest generation.

[00:28:17] Right.

[00:28:18] But, I mean, if you've ever read Kurt Vonnegut and you've read Slaughterhouse-Five,

[00:28:23] Yes.

[00:28:24] You are familiar with the Dresden bombings.

[00:28:26] Yes.

[00:28:26] Right?

[00:28:26] And that was a horrific thing that the Allies did.

[00:28:30] Mm-hmm.

[00:28:31] You know, now, it was in a battle against a horrific enemy as well.

[00:28:36] But it doesn't take away from the fact that we did something terrible to human beings.

[00:28:41] Right.

[00:28:41] Like, we did.

[00:28:42] We absolutely did.

[00:28:43] Yeah.

[00:28:43] And there's no denying that fact.

[00:28:46] And it's, no matter how you cut it, it is terrible.

[00:28:49] Mm-hmm.

[00:28:50] You know?

[00:28:50] And you can go through history.

[00:28:53] And I know that, you know, we all, like, as people in our own countries, we love to love

[00:29:00] our country, generally speaking.

[00:29:02] Sure.

[00:29:02] I'm not saying that that's across the board.

[00:29:04] No, you want to be proud of where you came from and glad that, you know, your country is

[00:29:09] a place that you can call home.

[00:29:10] Sure.

[00:29:11] But part of my political awakening was realizing that the United States isn't perfect.

[00:29:16] The United States is far from perfect.

[00:29:18] Mm-hmm.

[00:29:18] Like, we fuck up a lot.

[00:29:20] We fuck over people a lot.

[00:29:22] Yeah.

[00:29:22] Like, it's a thing that happens in our country where we do things wrong.

[00:29:28] Yeah.

[00:29:28] And it affects entire cultures, you know?

[00:29:32] And it's just one of, like, to me, there is no correct war.

[00:29:36] No.

[00:29:36] War is just bad, no matter what.

[00:29:38] And we should do everything we can to possibly avoid it.

[00:29:41] Right.

[00:29:41] And I'm not saying that there aren't times that it's unfortunately necessary, like in

[00:29:48] self-defense or in defending weaker people.

[00:29:51] Right.

[00:29:51] But we only seem to do that when we have a financial interest in it.

[00:29:55] And that makes it a little less noble, you know?

[00:29:58] Yeah.

[00:29:59] Right.

[00:30:01] And I don't know.

[00:30:02] We're getting off topic here.

[00:30:03] Yeah, no, definitely.

[00:30:04] But war is bad.

[00:30:05] War is bad.

[00:30:06] It's just, I understand that it's going to happen, but let's not sugarcoat it.

[00:30:11] Let's not, it's not good.

[00:30:12] It's bad.

[00:30:13] There's murder.

[00:30:14] We're killing each other.

[00:30:15] I do feel like countries are a little bit too eager to do it.

[00:30:18] Yes.

[00:30:19] You know, like, as a general rule, there is way too much war in the world.

[00:30:22] Yes.

[00:30:23] In my opinion.

[00:30:24] No, there, I don't think that's an opinion.

[00:30:26] That's, it's literally anti, it's anti-evolutionary going on ziz.

[00:30:37] Right.

[00:30:37] You know, like, whatever the word is.

[00:30:39] I'm not, I'm speaking off the top of my stupid potato head here, okay?

[00:30:44] But it's literally the opposite of the primary directive of creatures, not just humans, but

[00:30:54] all animals, you know?

[00:30:56] Right.

[00:30:56] We want to live as a species.

[00:30:58] Yes.

[00:30:58] Therefore, we shouldn't kill each other.

[00:31:00] Right.

[00:31:00] Like, that's just anti-science.

[00:31:02] The social contract that we have with each other not to murder each other.

[00:31:04] It's not just the social contract.

[00:31:06] It's the evolutionary contract.

[00:31:08] Right.

[00:31:09] We're supposed to eat, fuck, and procreate.

[00:31:12] Now, you could argue, if we're going with evolutionary and societal, right, that there

[00:31:17] are diminishing resources so that, therefore, it makes sense to go to war at some level

[00:31:22] too.

[00:31:23] And pandemics fall under that too.

[00:31:25] It's the way of earth cleansing itself and making resources available.

[00:31:30] There's lots of ways to argue this, but my end goal, my end point of view is always

[00:31:37] that killing people is bad.

[00:31:40] Yeah.

[00:31:40] It's an atrocious thing to do, and I don't care how you justify it to me.

[00:31:45] You can't.

[00:31:46] Right.

[00:31:47] It's not going to be justified.

[00:31:48] Right.

[00:31:48] Either you're killing people.

[00:31:50] The whole peace through strength is, that's no.

[00:31:55] I'm not okay with it.

[00:31:56] Right.

[00:31:56] You know?

[00:31:57] Like, you're trying to put a smiley face on a murder.

[00:32:01] Sure.

[00:32:02] And it doesn't work for me.

[00:32:03] Right.

[00:32:04] So, okay.

[00:32:05] Moving on.

[00:32:05] Yeah, yeah.

[00:32:06] Yeah, so they cheated their allies at war, whatever that means.

[00:32:11] Their shame and defeat will therefore be all the greater when they discover that some

[00:32:16] of these neighboring nations whom they thought were trusted allies have betrayed them and

[00:32:21] helped bring about their downfall.

[00:32:23] But that's not how it ended up, though.

[00:32:25] No.

[00:32:25] Okay.

[00:32:26] No.

[00:32:26] Just double checking.

[00:32:27] Those fucking Edomites.

[00:32:28] Yeah, right.

[00:32:29] I'm telling you, justice for Esau.

[00:32:32] Okay?

[00:32:32] Right.

[00:32:33] So, then I'm going to read verse 9.

[00:32:36] Your warriors, Taman, will be terrified, and everyone in Esau's mountains will be cut

[00:32:42] down in the slaughter.

[00:32:43] So, Esau's mountains is Mount Seir.

[00:32:46] Okay?

[00:32:47] Right.

[00:32:47] That's what we're talking about there.

[00:32:49] Okay?

[00:32:49] So, then we talk about why judgment is coming against Edom, as if we haven't already, you

[00:32:55] know, said enough.

[00:32:56] Right.

[00:32:56] Obadiah explains why God will punish Edom so severely.

[00:33:00] When the Babylonian armies attacked and plundered Jerusalem, Edom did nothing to help

[00:33:05] its brother nation, instead helping the attackers.

[00:33:08] So glad were they to see Jerusalem plundered, even joining in the plundering themselves.

[00:33:14] Worse, they helped the Babylonians capture Jerusalem by cutting off the escape route of

[00:33:20] those who tried to flee.

[00:33:21] Wait, now we're back to Babylon conquering.

[00:33:25] So, it's not when they were still around and allied with the Israelites in whatever

[00:33:32] time frame that was when they were fighting the Romans.

[00:33:34] Right.

[00:33:34] We're now back to the...

[00:33:35] Like, this is where I struggle with the things that apologists put together, right?

[00:33:39] Mm-hmm.

[00:33:40] So, like, no, it's this thing.

[00:33:41] No, wait, it's that thing.

[00:33:42] Wait, it's probably...

[00:33:44] I don't know.

[00:33:44] Well, no, Obadiah was, we think, written during the Babylonian exile.

[00:33:51] No, I get it.

[00:33:51] The thing that we were talking about with the Romans, that was facts that I threw in later

[00:33:57] that are outside of the Bible and Bible curriculum.

[00:34:01] Because they never got fully conquered.

[00:34:03] Right.

[00:34:03] They never got fully destroyed.

[00:34:05] They did not get destroyed until they teamed up with Rome or whatever.

[00:34:10] Right.

[00:34:10] So, that was way later in the AD.

[00:34:13] Right.

[00:34:13] Or no, they...

[00:34:13] They teamed up with the Israelites.

[00:34:15] Yes.

[00:34:15] And got conquered by Rome.

[00:34:16] Right.

[00:34:17] My bad.

[00:34:17] Sorry.

[00:34:18] Yes, thank you.

[00:34:19] Yeah.

[00:34:19] All right.

[00:34:20] So, moving on, we're going to talk about the deliverance on Mount Zion and a promise

[00:34:24] of judgment against Edom.

[00:34:26] Okay.

[00:34:27] Making this promise-y promise, promise, promise.

[00:34:29] It's coming, judgment, judgment, coming.

[00:34:32] Okay.

[00:34:33] God then expands on their particular offense and threatens them with speedy recourse,

[00:34:39] which doesn't seem very speedy to me.

[00:34:42] In the day of the Lord, God will intervene in human affairs and punish sinners according

[00:34:47] to their sins.

[00:34:49] The Edomites celebrated their plunder of Jerusalem by holding wild drinking parties among the ruins

[00:34:55] of the temple on Mount Zion.

[00:34:57] They, as well as Jerusalem's other enemies, will now be drunk in a different way.

[00:35:03] They will drink the cup of God's wrath.

[00:35:06] Oh, no.

[00:35:07] Until, unable to stand any longer, they will stagger and fall.

[00:35:11] I see.

[00:35:12] Okay.

[00:35:13] Yeah.

[00:35:13] Yeah.

[00:35:14] So, God will use Israel to bring judgment against Edom.

[00:35:18] Got it.

[00:35:18] Is what we're about to talk about here.

[00:35:20] Okay.

[00:35:20] And I'm like, whatever.

[00:35:22] Yeah.

[00:35:22] The Babylonians accordingly subdued the Edomites and expelled them from Arabia, Petraea, of which

[00:35:28] they never afterwards recovered possession.

[00:35:31] And I'm like, if you say so.

[00:35:35] Having punished Jerusalem's enemies, God says he will release his people from captivity and

[00:35:40] bring them back to their homeland.

[00:35:42] He will restore holiness to Mount Zion, but send a fitting judgment upon Edom.

[00:35:48] He will destroy Edom as a fire burns up a field of dry grass.

[00:35:52] From Jerusalem, the reestablished Israelite nation will expand south into Edomite territory, west

[00:36:01] over Philistine territory, north over its own territory that the Philistines had seized,

[00:36:08] and east across Jordan to retake former territory there.

[00:36:13] Captives will be taken from various camps in foreign countries and resettled permanently in their own land from Phoenicia in the north to the Negev in the south.

[00:36:23] So, I'm going to read verse 18.

[00:36:25] Okay.

[00:36:26] Jacob will be afire and Joseph aflame.

[00:36:29] Esau will be stubble and they will set him on fire and destroy him.

[00:36:32] There will be no survivors from Esau.

[00:36:35] The Lord has spoken.

[00:36:35] I already read that earlier.

[00:36:36] Sure.

[00:36:37] But I'm wanting to reference it again.

[00:36:39] Got it.

[00:36:39] Yeah.

[00:36:39] After their return from captivity, the Jews, called here the House of Jacob and the House of Joseph, did break out as a flame upon the Edomites.

[00:36:49] They reduced them into slavery and obliged them to receive circumcision and to practice the rights of the Jewish religion.

[00:36:56] Now, we're going to be reading about that in 1st and 2nd Maccabean.

[00:37:01] Oh, when we get into the...

[00:37:02] The Maccabees.

[00:37:03] Right, yeah.

[00:37:04] Yeah.

[00:37:04] Which is the apocryphal stuff, right?

[00:37:08] I think...

[00:37:09] I don't know.

[00:37:10] I always forget.

[00:37:11] It is.

[00:37:11] Okay.

[00:37:12] I'll go with you on that.

[00:37:13] I think...

[00:37:14] I don't think it's apocryphal.

[00:37:15] I think it's in Catholic.

[00:37:16] It is.

[00:37:17] Yeah.

[00:37:18] So, it's considered apocryphal by the...

[00:37:20] Christians, but not Catholics.

[00:37:22] Right.

[00:37:23] Even though Catholics are Christians.

[00:37:25] Sort of.

[00:37:26] Yeah.

[00:37:26] Yes.

[00:37:27] Ish.

[00:37:28] Right.

[00:37:28] Sort of.

[00:37:29] I mean, they are.

[00:37:30] They consider themselves Christians.

[00:37:31] Right, but Christians wouldn't consider Catholics Christian.

[00:37:33] They do, but they don't...

[00:37:36] They think that they are pagan-ish Christians.

[00:37:39] Right, yeah.

[00:37:40] But they still are better than heathens like you and me.

[00:37:43] Sure.

[00:37:43] Yeah.

[00:37:44] Because at least they believe in one God and that Jesus is his son who died for their

[00:37:50] sins or whatever and came back to life, however that goes.

[00:37:53] Right, right.

[00:37:54] All right.

[00:37:55] So, I'm going to read verse...

[00:37:56] Wait.

[00:37:58] That was 18.

[00:37:59] Now, I'm reading verse 19 again.

[00:38:01] Okay.

[00:38:02] People from the Negev will occupy the mountains of Esau and people from the foothills will

[00:38:07] possess the land of the Philistines.

[00:38:09] They will occupy the fields of Ephraim and Samaria and Benjamin will possess Gilead.

[00:38:15] Okay.

[00:38:15] Okay.

[00:38:16] So, in this and the following verse, which I'll read in a moment, the prophet shows the

[00:38:21] different districts which should be occupied by the Israelites after their return from Babylon.

[00:38:26] Okay.

[00:38:27] So, he's like, after you return from Babylon, you guys are going to retake all these lands.

[00:38:31] Got it.

[00:38:32] And I don't know that that actually happened.

[00:38:34] Right, right.

[00:38:35] But God says it will and these people believe it.

[00:38:38] Sure.

[00:38:39] Edom lay to the south, the Philistines to the west, or Philistines.

[00:38:45] I always get that wrong.

[00:38:46] Ephraim to the north and Gilead to the east.

[00:38:49] Those who returned from Babylon were to extend themselves everywhere.

[00:38:54] Got it.

[00:38:54] Okay.

[00:38:54] Yeah.

[00:38:55] Okay.

[00:38:55] So, verse 20 reads, this company of Israelite exiles who are in Canaan will possess the land

[00:39:02] as far as Zarephath.

[00:39:03] The exiles from Jerusalem who are in Sephiroth will possess the towns of the Negev.

[00:39:09] And remember, I was like, well, I think Sephiroth is the Hebrew word for Spain, but I don't

[00:39:15] know what the hell a Zarephath is.

[00:39:17] Yeah.

[00:39:17] Yeah.

[00:39:17] So, Zarephath is also Sarepta, a city of the Sidonians mentioned in 1 Kings.

[00:39:26] Yeah.

[00:39:26] I think the Sidonians were the ones that chopped the cedar trees and stuff, if I recall correctly.

[00:39:30] I believe so.

[00:39:31] I believe so.

[00:39:32] So they will possess the whole city of Phoenicia called here that of the Canaanites.

[00:39:38] Okay.

[00:39:38] Is what is being said.

[00:39:39] Got it.

[00:39:40] Okay.

[00:39:40] Yeah.

[00:39:42] There were some argument about whether Sephiroth actually means Spain.

[00:39:49] When I was reading it just from the historians and scholars.

[00:39:53] Yeah.

[00:39:53] It was just, yeah, that's Spain.

[00:39:55] But then when I was reading it from the Christian apologists sources.

[00:40:00] Yeah.

[00:40:01] They were like, we don't know.

[00:40:02] It might be France.

[00:40:03] It might be Spain.

[00:40:04] It might be.

[00:40:05] And they named a bunch of other countries.

[00:40:07] But those are the only two that stuck in my brain.

[00:40:09] Got it.

[00:40:09] But I was just like, okay.

[00:40:12] Yeah.

[00:40:12] Spain then.

[00:40:13] Right.

[00:40:14] But it sounds like maybe that is because there was never any evidence of that happening probably.

[00:40:18] And they're like, we don't know what it, you know, like if they don't know, then it could be explained away.

[00:40:23] Right.

[00:40:23] I guess.

[00:40:24] I don't know.

[00:40:25] The historians and scholars are the people I'm going to trust.

[00:40:28] Yeah.

[00:40:29] Not the apologists who just shit out ideas.

[00:40:31] Right.

[00:40:31] Well, that's what I'm saying.

[00:40:32] Like the apologists would, if it never happened, they're going to be like, well, we don't know what that means exactly.

[00:40:37] Right.

[00:40:37] But then the scholars would be like, yeah, that's Spain.

[00:40:40] Yeah.

[00:40:40] Like we studied Hebrew and that's what that means.

[00:40:44] Right.

[00:40:44] So go fuck yourself.

[00:40:45] I mean, that's what I would say.

[00:40:47] If I knew Hebrew.

[00:40:48] Sure.

[00:40:49] And I was learning words and reading the Bible and I knew that that was Spain.

[00:40:53] I would say to apologists, go fuck yourself.

[00:40:57] Yeah.

[00:40:57] Right.

[00:40:57] Because I'm crude like that.

[00:40:59] Sure.

[00:41:00] All right.

[00:41:01] About to finish up here.

[00:41:02] Okay.

[00:41:02] Okay.

[00:41:03] The final verse in this whole entire book of one chapter is about the saviors coming to Mount Zion.

[00:41:10] The final verse contains a prophecy of the restoration of the Jews from Babylonian captivity and of Israel's victory over all their former enemies.

[00:41:20] The end.

[00:41:21] Isn't that just wonderful?

[00:41:23] Yep.

[00:41:24] Yep.

[00:41:24] So that's it.

[00:41:25] That's the book of Obadiah.

[00:41:27] Okay.

[00:41:27] That is a Q&A and a book recap.

[00:41:31] I actually, after listening to your, you know, information there, kind of want to see that city.

[00:41:37] I know.

[00:41:38] Right?

[00:41:38] Like that is, that is really cool.

[00:41:40] I want to see Petra.

[00:41:41] I definitely, I definitely am going to look up some pictures.

[00:41:43] Yeah.

[00:41:43] I looked up pictures too.

[00:41:45] Did you?

[00:41:45] It's really neat.

[00:41:46] Yeah.

[00:41:46] It reminded me as you were talking about it.

[00:41:48] But I don't know if you were, so like one of my favorite movie series when I was younger was, oh, the Harrison Ford.

[00:41:58] He's Indiana Jones.

[00:42:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:42:01] But there was one at the, the last one where his dad was with them.

[00:42:06] And it was Indiana Jones and the Crusade.

[00:42:10] Last Crusade.

[00:42:10] Last Crusade.

[00:42:11] Yeah.

[00:42:11] And there was like this beautiful, like carved in area that was in rocks and like it was a hidden thing.

[00:42:18] And I was thinking of that as you were saying.

[00:42:20] Oh, I wonder if that's what, that's interesting.

[00:42:22] Right.

[00:42:23] Yeah.

[00:42:23] Okay.

[00:42:23] Well, we'll get back to you on that.

[00:42:25] No, I just, it was, it reminded me of that, that movie because.

[00:42:29] You know, that wasn't the final movie.

[00:42:31] You said it was the last one, but it wasn't the last.

[00:42:33] No, you're right.

[00:42:33] You're right.

[00:42:34] But last one as I was when I was younger.

[00:42:36] Sure.

[00:42:37] Sure.

[00:42:37] But yeah, but that's what, that's what I was thinking of the whole time.

[00:42:40] Okay.

[00:42:40] I'm probably going to piss off everybody here, but I really enjoyed the most recent one.

[00:42:46] The Dial of Destiny.

[00:42:48] It actually made me cry because I just felt like it was, it felt a lot like the original series.

[00:42:55] And it was fun.

[00:42:57] It had the same tone and mood.

[00:42:58] Now, granted, I was watching it with my husband and with my kid.

[00:43:02] And so that could have lent to it, but I just, I appreciated it and it brought the right mood and it was fun and I loved it.

[00:43:08] I think it was what it was, right?

[00:43:09] Yes.

[00:43:09] It was a callback to a movie franchise that we loved when we were younger and it did all the right things to call back those memories.

[00:43:17] Having said that, I didn't really love the one prior to that.

[00:43:21] Right.

[00:43:22] So I don't just have the nostalgia.

[00:43:25] If it's nostalgia, I love it for the sake of loving it.

[00:43:28] Sure.

[00:43:28] Just to be clear.

[00:43:29] I think it was something about Skull something, Crystal Skull.

[00:43:32] I honestly don't remember what that one is.

[00:43:33] It had, oh, I forget the kid's name in it.

[00:43:36] Sure.

[00:43:36] Miles Teller maybe.

[00:43:37] I could be wrong.

[00:43:38] Sorry if I'm wrong.

[00:43:39] Yeah.

[00:43:39] Anyway, I didn't love that.

[00:43:40] I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it.

[00:43:42] This last one, the Dial of Destiny, I absolutely loved.

[00:43:46] And you can hate me and cut me off if you want.

[00:43:48] And I'm fine with that.

[00:43:50] I said what I said and no regrets.

[00:43:52] Right.

[00:43:53] Right.

[00:43:53] Okay.

[00:43:54] Well, on that note, I think we have covered Obadiah pretty well here.

[00:43:58] I think we did too.

[00:43:59] But we do still have one more episode in the series, which will be...

[00:44:03] You're always wrong if I can find anything that says so.

[00:44:07] Or our contradictions episode, which we will be back tomorrow with.

[00:44:12] And we'll...

[00:44:13] No.

[00:44:14] No.

[00:44:14] Because...

[00:44:15] No.

[00:44:16] Yes, you're right.

[00:44:16] You're right.

[00:44:17] Okay.

[00:44:17] Yeah.

[00:44:18] And then on Wednesday night will be our live Discord at 10 p.m. Eastern.

[00:44:25] Yes.

[00:44:26] Yes.

[00:44:26] I always get that confused.

[00:44:28] The recording versus the publishing.

[00:44:31] Right.

[00:44:32] And that will be, obviously, the night before Thanksgiving.

[00:44:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:44:35] So if you're able to join us, definitely do.

[00:44:39] Some people will have some time off.

[00:44:41] Maybe this is the time where you can find some time to come join us that night.

[00:44:45] Right.

[00:44:45] Right.

[00:44:45] Right.

[00:44:46] So hopefully we'll see you there.

[00:44:48] Link is always in the show notes.

[00:44:49] So go check that out.

[00:44:51] And then...

[00:44:51] And we'll be covering our Patreon episode, which is the continuation of the series, Cults

[00:44:59] versus Religion.

[00:45:00] Yes.

[00:45:01] So you definitely want to stay tuned for that.

[00:45:03] Right.

[00:45:04] Right.

[00:45:04] Yeah.

[00:45:04] It was good stuff.

[00:45:05] Mm-hmm.

[00:45:06] So...

[00:45:06] All right.

[00:45:06] Well, we'll see you guys then.

[00:45:08] Bye.

[00:45:08] Happy Thanksgiving.

[00:45:10] Yeah.

[00:45:10] Bye.

[00:45:11] Bye.

[00:45:14] Jetzt ist Herbst.

[00:45:16] Und bald stehen schon wieder die Feiertage vor der Tür.

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