Isaiah Chapters 11 - 15 Q&A:
Listen in as we embark on an enlightening exploration of the intriguing mysteries of Isaiah. First, we clear up some confusion regarding the term "Lordas," a misprint that should have been "Lord as." We discuss how simple errors can lead to misinterpretations and, in this case, an entirely new word that can throw off our understanding of the text. We then delve into the names used to describe Lucifer, including "Lightbringer" and "Morningstar," and the King of Babylon, and discuss how these terms have evolved over time.
Continuing the discussion, we dissect the various names ascribed to Lucifer and the King of Babylon in chapters 11-15 of Isaiah. The conversation gets even more fascinating as we distinguish between Lucifer and Satan as separate entities in the Bible. Join us as we unpack how these words and names have been given more meaning than originally intended, and how they have come to be associated with an evil God. We unravel how the same words used to describe a Babylonian king have now become synonymous with Lucifer. Be prepared to rethink what you thought you knew about the Bible and the powerful influence of interpretation.
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00:00 - Wife (Host)
Husband Wife. Do you know what today is?
00:03 - Husband (Host)
Well, it is Saturday, which means that today is.
00:06 - Wife (Host)
Q&A Saturday, that's right. And it's on a Saturday this time.
00:12 - Husband (Host)
Amazing it is amazing. So, uh, since we're doing a Q&A, what are we, uh, what are we Q&Aing today?
00:20 - Wife (Host)
Well, we're going over Isaiah, chapters 11 through 15. That's what we read this past week.
00:26 - Husband (Host)
00:27 - Wife (Host)
And I have a couple of small things to say. One is about um Isaiah, chapter 11, verse 9. And we had a question about a word what's a lortus? And I joked around lard ass. Okay, I'm going to clarify that.
00:44 - Husband (Host)
00:45 - Wife (Host)
And then the other was about Isaiah, chapter 14, um referencing Lightbringer or Satan. Oh yeah, um yeah, morningstar, yeah yeah.
00:58 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, that was definitely. I was curious about that, for sure, okay, um, so you ready to get into this and find out what, uh, what all that's about? I sure as fuck am let's do this, okey-dokey.
01:18 - Wife (Host)
Okay, q&a Saturday here we go.
01:21 - Husband (Host)
01:23 - Wife (Host)
So the first question was about Isaiah, chapter 11, verse 9.
01:29 - Husband (Host)
01:29 - Wife (Host)
01:30 - Husband (Host)
01:31 - Wife (Host)
The verse itself read they will neither harm nor destroy. On all, my holy mountain for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the lordess. The water cover the sea.
01:43 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, that was weird.
01:45 - Wife (Host)
It was, but here's what happened.
01:47 - Husband (Host)
01:47 - Wife (Host)
The thing that I was reading had a typo.
01:52 - Husband (Host)
Well, that's an easy one.
01:53 - Wife (Host)
01:54 - Husband (Host)
So it was just Lord.
01:55 - Wife (Host)
Yeah Well, it's Lord ass. Oh, oh the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.
02:07 - Husband (Host)
Oh yeah, that makes a fuck ton more sense that makes so much more sense.
02:12 - Wife (Host)
So this is what I wrote in my notes here.
02:15 - Husband (Host)
02:15 - Wife (Host)
Lordess is a fucking typo. It should read Lord ass, yeah, yeah.
02:22 - Husband (Host)
That's hilarious. Okay, well, that one wasn't very exciting, but funny.
02:27 - Wife (Host)
I think it was funny because it just shows that we can make fuck ups and I mean, was the Bible like?
02:35 - Husband (Host)
we don't ever know if they're making up a word that we just don't know, or if it's, you know, a typo apparently.
02:40 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, I mean it wasn't like okay, when I said we can make fuck ups.
02:43 - Husband (Host)
It wasn't like our fault per se, like it really wasn't If we would have sat there and thought about it for a minute, we might have been able to come up with yeah, that's a fucking typo. Look, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. You know, I'm just saying it's if we had taken the time to sit down and look at it and be like Lordess.
03:02 - Wife (Host)
The sentence doesn't even read properly.
03:05 - Husband (Host)
Oh wait, hold Lord ass, yeah, and then it would read you know, so maybe Maybe.
03:10 - Wife (Host)
I doubt it, because that one was just too weird.
03:14 - Husband (Host)
03:15 - Wife (Host)
I don't know. I'm trying to say that I'm an idiot, a dumb dumb, if you will, and I read badly a typo.
03:27 - Husband (Host)
Got it. I don't entirely blame myself because it wasn't my typo Right.
03:33 - Wife (Host)
Right, but there it is.
03:35 - Husband (Host)
There you have it. That happened, that's the one.
03:38 - Wife (Host)
Sorry about that, sorry about the confusion that I put out into the world.
03:42 - Husband (Host)
That was my bad Right Right.
03:44 - Wife (Host)
And now I have cleared that up.
03:47 - Husband (Host)
03:48 - Wife (Host)
So let's move on to Isaiah, chapter 14. Okay, okay, I'm not going to reread the whole chapter, obviously.
03:56 - Husband (Host)
03:56 - Wife (Host)
But there were lots of references to late bringer and falling star, shining star, morning star morning star, all that stuff.
04:05 - Husband (Host)
04:07 - Wife (Host)
And they were talking about Babylon and the king of Babylon.
04:11 - Husband (Host)
That's what I was kind of asking yeah, because I thought maybe they were referring like these those are also terms for Lucifer, so I thought maybe they were referring to the king of Babylon as Lucifer or similar tonage to that extent.
04:26 - Wife (Host)
Sure, and that has been theorized as well, but the thing is, at the time that this was written, they didn't have a word for Lucifer, like they didn't have a word for Lucifer saying that kind of thing.
04:43 - Husband (Host)
But it's interesting that a lot of those words that they used to describe the king of Babylon then became words for Lucifer.
04:52 - Wife (Host)
Names for Lucifer. Yes and no. Lucifer was never a name. It became a name. Sure, it was a title, an office holder.
05:02 - Husband (Host)
05:04 - Wife (Host)
So it's not that there was a name that we refer to later as a bad guy. It's a bad guy of any Ilk Ilk With all of these other descriptors in his repertoire.
05:24 - Husband (Host)
05:26 - Wife (Host)
We sum that up as a Lucifer like a noun, and then later on that became a name in and of itself that we refer to as not just a bad guy but the biggest bad guy of all.
05:42 - Husband (Host)
So, but then? But I would like to dig more into this, maybe.
05:45 - Wife (Host)
Sure, and I would too.
05:47 - Husband (Host)
Because, morningstar, and you know, like the names that are, there's multiple names for Lucifer that are used in this chapter and apparently they are all to describe this Babylonian king.
05:56 - Wife (Host)
05:57 - Husband (Host)
Fokker must have been bad.
05:59 - Wife (Host)
06:00 - Husband (Host)
Like I mean obviously.
06:01 - Wife (Host)
Well, according to these guys, he was bad.
06:04 - Husband (Host)
Right, right according to these guys, yeah, right, but.
06:07 - Wife (Host)
Isaiah, isaiah, specifically Right, specifically Isaiah yeah.
06:12 - Husband (Host)
So, but to the extent that he is. They're describing him as the worst of the worst.
06:18 - Wife (Host)
No, he was not being described or compared to Lucifer I understand that.
06:22 - Husband (Host)
I understand that. But his name, the names they're giving this Babylonian king later describe a God of evil, that they are the same words used for either one.
06:36 - Wife (Host)
Yes and no. We now ascribe a lot more to that than what the Bible does. We're not there yet, so Okay. We don't, we can't say when we're the other, you and I, yet no, I. Because we're not there, but when we quote unquote, get to these parts where Lucifer is described.
06:58 - Husband (Host)
06:59 - Wife (Host)
We're gonna see that a lot of it was taken out of context and given more meaning, Like we think that the name Lucifer as an entity and a bad, bad being has more meaning than the Bible actually gave him.
07:19 - Husband (Host)
I don't doubt that. I don't doubt that. But at the same time, it's interesting that multiple names for Lucifer are used for this king also. That's all I'm saying. It's just, it's interesting to me.
07:32 - Wife (Host)
Well, I think that you have it exactly backwards it's multiple names for this guy, then go on to become multiple names for so bad, totally bad. Bad is bad got it. Just like that Babylonian guy back then. No, so bad. And then one of those words gets translated as Lucifer okay, you see what I mean. It's not that Lucifer, it's not that the guy was compared to Lucifer, it's that Badness was compared to the Babylonian king, and a word arose from that.
08:13 - Husband (Host)
I see the but so there's no conflating of the Babylonian king for Lucifer. Correct that like that's not something that even they weren't there yet. No, no, no, I know, but Christians didn't go back and say maybe this guy was oh yeah, christians have done that.
08:28 - Wife (Host)
But Christians are cooks.
08:30 - Husband (Host)
Right, but I'm that's what I was trying to get at, though, like so we're reading. We're reading the Christian Bible, right. No, we're reading the Jewish Bible which will then continue into the Christian. Yes, it's all. It's all one one.
08:42 - Wife (Host)
So they will say I say I was totally talking about Jesus and the devil and all that right, but they're wrong.
08:52 - Husband (Host)
I understand, but we have to take it both ways though, because people are going to enter Christians. A lot of Christians are going to interpret this as the devil and not the Babylonian king well, they can if they want to, but they're wrong. But you're, you're, I'm asking you a question.
09:10 - Wife (Host)
What is your question? What is your Christians?
09:13 - Husband (Host)
view this as possibly the devil.
09:15 - Wife (Host)
Oh Christians today do, because Christians haven't actually read the Bible.
09:20 - Husband (Host)
Okay, yes, but I.
09:23 - Wife (Host)
Don't? I guess I'm not really understanding your question.
09:26 - Husband (Host)
Okay, I understand that Christians today who haven't read the Bible Think of this as the devil.
09:32 - Wife (Host)
Are you asking what Bible?
09:35 - Husband (Host)
Christians? Do Christians who have read the Bible attribute any meaning to Lucifer in this book?
09:41 - Wife (Host)
Okay, in that part, right there fit it, the same way that they do say that he's talking about Jesus. Yes, christians do, but Scholars agree yeah, no, but that's not what Isaiah was saying.
09:55 - Husband (Host)
Okay, but apologists who have read the Bible do try to attribute meaning to, of course they do in this book?
10:01 - Wife (Host)
Of course they do.
10:02 - Husband (Host)
Okay, that was never in doubt I. Didn't know because I didn't do the research. I just heard you read the chapter. Okay so I'm just trying to figure out what you know, okay, and that's all. I'm trying to draw it out of you, because I don't really.
10:17 - Wife (Host)
I didn't really understand your question.
10:19 - Husband (Host)
I just want to know what the fuck's up with Lucifer, as far as Christians are concerned, in this Bible? Well, in this chapter.
10:25 - Wife (Host)
It depends on. It depends on. It depends on who you're asking, as If you are asking me asking somebody who's curious about all takes on this matter okay. Well, I'm only curious about actual interpretation by scholars, and Scholars have said yeah, no, that's not what he was talking about but scholars is.
10:49 - Husband (Host)
Is is Depended on who's saying they're a scholar. So a Christian is going to say an apologist Christian who has read the Bible and studied the Bible is going to say they're a scholar. They're gonna come up with a different opinion about what happened. It doesn't make them not a scholar, it makes them more biased because they're not taking into account a lot of things that an actual scholar would do well, I'm talking about actual scholars, right?
11:12 - Wife (Host)
not Apollock, christian Apologist.
11:15 - Husband (Host)
I understand, I understand.
11:16 - Wife (Host)
I'm talking about actual scholars who are able to compare the language of the time and tell you what was happening and what kind of things were being said. I understand that's what I'm telling you.
11:30 - Husband (Host)
I guess what I was really curious about and and maybe I'm still curious about even after we're done with this Q&A and maybe we'd like to dive into a little bit more would be the, the origins of, of the name Lucifer and Morningstar, and and and.
11:48 - Wife (Host)
That particular brand of the king of hell? And how did it all.
11:52 - Husband (Host)
And how did all these names then become the devil like at?
11:56 - Wife (Host)
what point in history did this shit get retrofitted? Right okay, that's a good question.
12:04 - Husband (Host)
And so to me, to me there's a like I guess this is why I'm nitpicking you about it, because to me there's a bigger story here.
12:11 - Wife (Host)
Oh no, I totally agree, and I do want to research this more okay but for all intents and purposes the answer to the question is is a? 14 is not actually about Lucifer, it's about the Babylonian king, and we humans later on retrofitted and stole a lot of the descriptors and the language to mean what we wanted it to mean. So that's where that sits for the moment, till we do more research specifically just into that.
12:49 - Husband (Host)
Okay, maybe we've got a Patreon coming up this weekend. We, do, do we have anything, I mean, we might maybe.
12:57 - Wife (Host)
We might look into Lucifer, because clearly that is where you're at right now.
13:02 - Husband (Host)
I'm curious, I'm very curious.
13:03 - Wife (Host)
See, okay, I feel like we were trying to have two separate discussions, because I was trying to talk about Isaiah chapter 14 from the Isaiah chapter 14 perspective and you were trying to talk about Lucifer outside of the context of that chapter.
13:21 - Husband (Host)
Only because those names resonate so much further than this chapter.
13:24 - Wife (Host)
No, and I totally agree, but that's beyond the scope of what I was getting into for this discussion.
13:30 - Husband (Host)
13:32 - Wife (Host)
And for this Q&A about chapters 11 through 15.
13:36 - Husband (Host)
Well, I'm not going to say I was disappointed, but I'm not going to not say I was disappointed. Well, I'm not going to say that I disagree with you.
13:46 - Wife (Host)
I do want to know more. But I wasn't looking at it from the grander scope of a rabbit hole. I was looking at it purely from the what did Isaiah mean here?
14:01 - Husband (Host)
14:02 - Wife (Host)
14:03 - Husband (Host)
That's fine. I was just trying to clarify a couple of points, because we are talking about something that later indicates Lucifer and Satan.
14:11 - Wife (Host)
And the show Lucifer is so good and has nothing to do with this. That's so ever.
14:17 - Husband (Host)
Right Like in any way whatsoever, except that everybody does call him Lucifer Morningstar. Yeah.
14:23 - Wife (Host)
Which is just so cool, and his brother, aminadiel, calls him Lucy, which I fucking love.
14:30 - Husband (Host)
Don't you just want a reason to talk about? You know, say the words Lucifer and Morningstar, and Lightbringer you know Lightbringer a lot in an episode.
14:38 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, yes, okay, yes, that's not what I was doing, though.
14:46 - Husband (Host)
No, I got you, I got you and I apologize.
14:49 - Wife (Host)
I didn't realize that you were going to be so.
14:51 - Husband (Host)
Well, maybe not just me. I'm trying to be the everyman Like. I'm trying to be the person that's like, but you said Lucifer in this chapter. I want to know what the fuck's happening here with about Lucifer.
15:01 - Wife (Host)
Okay, and I hear you, but actually Lucifer was never said in this chapter. I know I you said Lucifer, nobody else said Lucifer.
15:12 - Husband (Host)
They said Morningstar, they said Lightbringer.
15:15 - Wife (Host)
15:16 - Husband (Host)
Those things were mentioned.
15:17 - Wife (Host)
They were those things are things that Lucifer slash.
15:21 - Husband (Host)
Satan is called at other, if not in the Bible, at some point in time.
15:26 - Wife (Host)
This is really going to blow your mind. Satan and Lucifer are not the same being Jesus Christ. Look at that ball I just threw and on that note, bye, bye. What a grenade.