Strap in, non-believers, for an episode chock-full of wild prophetic gymnastics that would give even Nostradamus a run for his money. Dive into the perplexing world of Isaiah's prophecies, where historical context gets blurry, timelines are fluid, and vague statements are treated as profound truths.
Listen in as we untangle the so-called prophetic judgment on Moab, a society seemingly destined to play perpetual pinball in the biblical narrative. Experience the dizzying whirlwind of Isaiah's compassionate plea for humanity, an intriguing paradox within a book filled with smiting, judgment, and divine vengeance.
Delve into the convoluted enigmas surrounding Ethiopia and Egypt, where the role of 'God's chosen tool' is passed around like a game of divine hot potato. You'll marvel at the audacious interpretations of biblical scholars who make quantum physicists look like amateurs when it comes to bending reality.
Finally, try to keep a straight face as we discuss the consequences of God smacking Egypt with 'foolish counsel' and 'cruel rulers'. And yes, we will discuss the hot topic of Isaiah's clothing (or lack thereof) - because nothing says 'divine message' like public nudity.
Don't forget to join us on Discord for lively discussions, debates, and occasional fits of laughter at the absurdity of it all. You won't want to miss it!
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00:00 - Wife (Host)
Husband wife. Do you know what we're supposed to be doing right now that we were supposed to have done yesterday?
00:07 - Husband (Host)
Well, we're not supposed to be doing it right now. We were supposed to do it yesterday right, we are doing it right now.
00:11 - Wife (Host)
That's why we're supposed to do it, because we didn't do it yesterday.
00:13 - Husband (Host)
Well, I know it has to do with questions that we had with regard to everything we read last week right. Which would mean that we're on a Sunday doing what?
00:21 - Wife (Host)
Q&A Saturday. But wife had a shell fish reaction that was bad and gave her hives and bumps and had to go to bed after taking Benadryl.
00:32 - Husband (Host)
Yes, yes, that is correct. Yeah, so we're doing our Q&A day and this is gonna be over Isaiah chapters 16 through 20. Okay, you ready to do this?
00:45 - Wife (Host)
It's doozy yeah let's do it.
00:56 - Husband (Host)
Hey, before we get into this, I have a quick announcement and I just wanted to make sure that everyone knew. We have a new merchandise Um group that we're dealing with and I have recently updated all of our products on our website. So go to sacreligiousdiscoursecom and all of the pricing is only one dollar above our cost. So I'm trying to make this as price Conscious for you as I can right, so hopefully that entices you to go over and take a look, and we have some really great stuff mugs, sweat shirts, hoodies, t-shirts, all kinds of crap.
01:37 - Wife (Host)
That sounds interesting. That's it. That's all I got, all right, so I'm gonna let you head on into the episode here. All right. So do you remember last week at all? It was so confusing. Yes, I was very confused like every chapter was like I don't know what just happened.
01:51 - Husband (Host)
I think I got that. There was a lot of death happening. Well people were dying.
01:56 - Wife (Host)
There was prophecy of death.
01:58 - Husband (Host)
Yes, that's what I meant somebody was naked For three years, right yeah.
02:02 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, so I I kind of just did a no, let's go back and Actually understand what happened?
02:10 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, yeah.
02:10 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, so let's start with chapter 16, you know, as you do right and that was a continuing Concern about moab got it Okay. So the previous chapter was like this is gonna happen to moab and then. So now we're still talking about it, it's still happening, yeah, yeah. It continues the proclamation concerning moab, and we're talking about Some cities that isaia is is saying is going to.
02:41 - Husband (Host)
Have a hammer come down Right yeah.
02:43 - Wife (Host)
So isaia condemns Damascus and its allies for their pride and arrogance, and he prophecies their destruction.
02:52 - Husband (Host)
Right Now I think, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think Damascus is part of the syrian I believe so which, and I could be wrong about that, but like that's so. This is part of. What was confusing me is like which Group he was killing at any given time.
03:07 - Wife (Host)
Right. Well, the main cities, from what I could understand when I went back, or not cities, but nations assyrian isreal Ethiopian and. Egypt and Egypt right, right, I got that so, um, when I get into this a little bit later, but one of the things that I came across as a little note is that the assyrians were the most feared During that time right, because he refers to them as the the tool of god More than once, and even after they talk about destroying some of them.
03:39 - Husband (Host)
That comes back later, when they was talking about Ethiopia and Egypt. That he's still, or the assyrians are still, the tool of Egypt or of god.
03:45 - Wife (Host)
Whatever, yeah. Well, during that time, um, they were the most abusive of all the little nations feared what assyria would do to them got it, so that was. That was the biggest, scariest one got it Okay so um, send the lamb to the ruler of the land. That that was something that was said. Okay we were like I don't even know what that means right. Isiah saying that Moab should resume bringing tribute to Jerusalem Um thereby submitting themselves to god. So we're getting away from Assyria and we're just talking about.
04:19 - Husband (Host)
Moab, moab, now okay.
04:21 - Wife (Host)
Okay, and so he's saying that Moab is going to come back into the fold. Okay, and we saw that a lot in these early chapters that these Nations and cities that were not accepting god, the god of the Israelites, are going to come back.
04:38 - Husband (Host)
Into the fold. Okay.
04:39 - Wife (Host)
So that's what that meant, right? So in second kings, chapter three, the king of Moab, who once paid tribute to Israel, stop doing so when king Ahab of Israel died. Okay so isiah is counseling Moab to resume this payment.
04:57 - Husband (Host)
Hey fuckers, just because he died, we still need shit. Right, right, you don't need to stop.
05:01 - Wife (Host)
Not only that, but like it's not just for us, it's to put you back in god's good graces.
05:07 - Husband (Host)
Yes. They all say, oh sure, yeah, I'm not, I'm not here like to try to say, and that'll be great.
05:14 - Wife (Host)
I say that was their supposed reasoning. Yeah, okay, I don't know how much the leaders believed that, but that's.
05:21 - Husband (Host)
I know how much I would believe it and that would be zero, right exactly. I just want my money.
05:27 - Wife (Host)
So the next little bit is isiah's word to Judah as she observes Moab under judgment. Okay, so remember, at this time Judah and Israel were at arms with each other. Yeah, they're separate nations Right. So isiah is like talking to Judah and saying now look what's happening with Moab, Be concerned Got it. Um, so he's saying hide the outcast. Now, out of compassion, isiah pleads with the rulers of Judah to hide the outcasts of Moab. Okay so he's trying to convince them that it's in their best interest to shelter.
06:07 - Husband (Host)
So was Moab being attacked by the Assyrians at this point? Is that partly whether they're having to shelter outcasts or what's going on?
06:14 - Wife (Host)
Um they're being attacked by their own people, the ones who do not take God. Okay so he's. He's saying Judah, please take in the ones who still believe our God. Yeah, yeah, his great sympathy for the Moabites is likely due to the connection between Moab and the royal house of David Sure.
06:38 - Husband (Host)
So he's like Ruth was a Moabite right. Yes, yeah so like there's all kinds of connections to Moabites and they weren't really far. I think they were part of one of the lines from Noah or something like that, like that.
06:50 - Wife (Host)
I don't remember exactly. I think one of Moses' wives was a Moabite.
06:55 - Husband (Host)
Something like that. Yeah, so there's definitely some connections biblically to the Moabites.
07:02 - Wife (Host)
So Isaiah is like we need to help the people that are the people of God.
07:07 - Husband (Host)
Right right.
07:09 - Wife (Host)
He wanted Judah to be a place of refuge and protection for Moab under judgment. So he also knows Judah is about to or, I'm sorry, Moab is about to get the hammer come down. He wants to protect them from that.
07:26 - Husband (Host)
Okay.
07:27 - Wife (Host)
He's like God is about to Judge. Judge this nation. If you can get out, go to Judah. Judah, please help.
07:36 - Husband (Host)
Got it.
07:37 - Wife (Host)
Okay. So the next little bit is a plea for refuge among Moab in the day of the righteous king. So in Isaiah 16, three, judah was counseled to receive the outcasts of Moab. Okay, and now Moab is asked to receive the outcasts. And so that happens, got it? This may be an end times prophecy of how Moab will be a place of refuge for Jews escaping the fury of the antichrist after the abomination of desolation as described in the book of Revelation.
08:08 - Husband (Host)
So this is a Christian adaptation of the yes and no.
08:13 - Wife (Host)
Yes and no. I added this little bit just because I thought it was interesting Got it. Okay, there are some who say that yes.
08:21 - Husband (Host)
Right, we're right. I just think it's funny that, like even as much as I didn't exactly understand what was going on in these chapters, it seemed pretty clear and straightforward to me that it was talking about things that would be near future, not long time.
08:35 - Wife (Host)
Right.
08:35 - Husband (Host)
Thousands of years down the road.
08:37 - Wife (Host)
And that's a big argument among scholars.
08:40 - Husband (Host)
Sure.
08:41 - Wife (Host)
The apologists versus the actual academics.
08:44 - Husband (Host)
No, but just, I mean just the way it read, like the way things were said, yeah, did not indicate to me and again, I'm not a scholar, I'm not an academic, I'm not studying this but it doesn't indicate to me that this was something that was going to happen thousands of years later.
08:57 - Wife (Host)
No, they all seemed like near prophecies.
09:00 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, for sure.
09:01 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, so the pain in Moab at the judgment of God is the next bit.
09:06 - Husband (Host)
Okay.
09:07 - Wife (Host)
The Moabites took great pride in their vineyards, but God used the lords of the nations to break them down and to destroy everything Moab took pride in.
09:16 - Husband (Host)
Gotcha.
09:17 - Wife (Host)
So that's why he attacked their vineyards. We were like who, why, what?
09:20 - Husband (Host)
Yeah.
09:21 - Wife (Host)
But that's why, that's what their nation was renowned for. So he's like I'll take that from you then.
09:26 - Husband (Host)
Okay, okay, yeah, punishment.
09:29 - Wife (Host)
Yes, because fear the Lord Right, don't forget.
09:31 - Husband (Host)
We gotta do that.
09:32 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, so then there was the bit about Isaiah's sorrow of heart for Moab, which we already talked about a little bit, why he would have those feelings.
09:41 - Husband (Host)
Right.
09:42 - Wife (Host)
And then the last little bit of chapter 16 was about. It said three years until judgment comes on Moab.
09:51 - Husband (Host)
Okay, yep, so still kind of near Right. We got a specific timeline here.
09:55 - Wife (Host)
Right.
09:56 - Husband (Host)
Or a specific ish.
09:57 - Wife (Host)
Now there's a note from scholars that says since we don't know the exact date of Isaiah's prophecy, it is impossible to independently verify the accuracy of the within three years prediction.
10:12 - Husband (Host)
So but did it happen any time in this timeframe?
10:15 - Wife (Host)
I could not find a lot of information on that Right.
10:19 - Husband (Host)
But, like I mean I kind of take issue with a historian saying we can't corroborate this because of this. But you could corroborate it within a hundred years maybe, and just be like it could have been this. It might have been this.
10:31 - Wife (Host)
It's an attempt to be sensitive to a controversial issue and it's basically a way of saying we probably didn't find any evidence of this but we don't want to say that should never happened.
10:43 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, that's why I'm taking issue with the way that was phrased.
10:46 - Wife (Host)
Right.
10:48 - Husband (Host)
Because I'm like no, you didn't find shit. And you're saying we didn't find shit because it wasn't there.
10:53 - Wife (Host)
Right.
10:54 - Husband (Host)
And it wasn't there because it didn't happen. But you don't want to say that, so you're being like real coy about it, right?
11:00 - Wife (Host)
And that's how I read it as well.
11:02 - Husband (Host)
Yeah.
11:02 - Wife (Host)
All right, so now we get into chapter 17.
11:05 - Husband (Host)
Okay.
11:05 - Wife (Host)
Okay, and chapter 17 is a proclamation against Syria and Israel. So we're still with Isaiah giving all of these prophecies about the various nations.
11:17 - Husband (Host)
Yeah.
11:17 - Wife (Host)
Okay. Isaiah prophecies about the destruction of Ephraim and Samaria, the two northern kingdoms of Israel, declaring that they will be defeated and exiled.
11:28 - Husband (Host)
Sure Okay.
11:30 - Wife (Host)
So the chapter opens with the Lord speaking to Damascus and Ephraim. So Damascus was actually it looks like a part of a Syria. No.
11:43 - Husband (Host)
Oh.
11:44 - Wife (Host)
No, I think we're saying that Damascus was a part of Israel. I could be wrong. Oh, here we go. You were right. Damascus was one of the great cities of the ancient world, the capital of Syria.
11:57 - Husband (Host)
Okay, yeah, I apologize. I was gonna say I know of Damascus so I didn't think I was wrong there, but that's one of the main truth. No, you were right.
12:03 - Wife (Host)
I apologize. So he's talking to Damascus again and saying this shit's gonna come down, okay, yep. Now when he talks about the judgment on Israel, ephraim was the dominant tribe of the northern kingdom of Israel.
12:18 - Husband (Host)
Okay.
12:19 - Wife (Host)
At this time, Israel and Syria were closely aligned against Judah.
12:24 - Husband (Host)
Okay, okay, yeah.
12:27 - Wife (Host)
Which is why God's judgment against Israel via Ephraim came at the same time as his judgment against Syria.
12:33 - Husband (Host)
Damascus Got it Okay, uh-huh.
12:37 - Wife (Host)
The next bit covers the humble response to the judgment of the Lord. In the midst of this severe judgment, some people will respond with humble respect for God, and that'll be great. Those people will be taken in and that's awesome.
12:50 - Husband (Host)
The way they were taken in, though what it looked like to me was through slavery, though.
12:53 - Wife (Host)
Yes, which doesn't yes?
12:56 - Husband (Host)
Not a very nice way to treat those who submit to you.
13:00 - Wife (Host)
Right, exactly. They were definitely taking advantage of that situation in the worst way possible. Yeah Again. That's the way the Apologists phrased it.
13:14 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, taking, in. They took them in as slaves they had made some really creative ways to scape that whole slavery thing they do.
13:21 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, yeah. The next bit is about God's judgment will bring man's work to nothing and the rush of the nations against Syria and Israel.
13:31 - Husband (Host)
Okay, okay.
13:33 - Wife (Host)
So that's the bit where God's gonna use other nations to bring judgment against Syria and Israel.
13:37 - Husband (Host)
Okay.
13:38 - Wife (Host)
He's gonna use them as tools to wipe them flat.
13:43 - Husband (Host)
Right, but Syria was one of the ones that he was using as a tool as well, so this is where it was getting really fucking confusing.
13:50 - Wife (Host)
Well, he's using them all as tools against each other is basically what it goes down to.
13:54 - Husband (Host)
It's a big ass fucking war. Lots of people died and they're claiming God used people as tools. Right, that's the gist of it.
13:59 - Wife (Host)
It's war in the Middle East.
14:01 - Husband (Host)
Got it Right. Yeah, shit sucked.
14:05 - Wife (Host)
Now, this doesn't mean that the nations that God uses to judge them will be exempt from their own judgment, which that's what you just said. God will rebuke them and they will flee far away, sure, okay, so that's basically what you just said.
14:19 - Husband (Host)
Yeah.
14:20 - Wife (Host)
The tools are tools until they get smacked down by somebody else. Who's a tool?
14:24 - Husband (Host)
Right.
14:25 - Wife (Host)
Looks to me like everyone's a tool.
14:26 - Husband (Host)
Yeah.
14:28 - Wife (Host)
Okay, so that was chapter 17. Everyone's a tool.
14:30 - Husband (Host)
Okay, okay, no, we're heading into 18, 18, 18.
14:34 - Wife (Host)
And this is about a prophecy concerning Ethiopia.
14:37 - Husband (Host)
Okay, okay, yep.
14:38 - Wife (Host)
Now, I found this very interesting. Many biblical scholars say that this is the most, one of the most obscure prophecies in the whole book of Isaiah. I'm glad I'm not alone then but I remember saying that at the time. Yeah like I had come across that note, so I'm Reiterating this shit up front to say that's why this chapter was super confusing.
14:59 - Husband (Host)
Okay, okay, yep.
15:00 - Wife (Host)
Isaiah describes the coming invasion of Ethiopia, which will bring judgment on Egypt, and declaring that Ethiopia will be humiliated and its people scattered, which he basically said humiliated and scattered to all of the nations that got smacked sure what's.
15:18 - Husband (Host)
What's funny to me about this whole thing is that, up until this point, the only mention I think of well, I don't even know if Ethiopia was mentioned then, but I think they were back when Solomon was king and the Egyptianist Queen the princess came from.
15:33 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, yeah, she came from Ethiopia or something like that was only in one of our Q&A suppositions. I don't think it even said it in the Bible. Right? Yeah, so yeah.
15:41 - Husband (Host)
It might have, but regardless, like there hasn't been much talk of Ethiopia. And then, all of a sudden, we're worried about conquering them and getting conquered and and all this shit just pops out of nowhere With regard to how the Bible reads right.
15:52 - Wife (Host)
Well, that that's interesting. You see that because my very next note is a note about Ethiopia got it Okay. Ethiopia was a major world power who ruled Egypt for parts of of that history.
16:05 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, so it's a lot of that gets. I think that's where Queen Shiba was part of that.
16:09 - Wife (Host)
They both were kind of one power at that yes because they talked about Ethiopia and Egypt as kind of one right when that was being, and that's because power went back and forth between the two, sure, and Ethiopia was a chief rival, rival to Assyria, which makes sense.
16:25
Yeah, you know they both they were, they were and they both wanted Egypt because, yeah, egypt was Flourishing and it was flourishing because it of the location where it was settled, along the Fertile Crescent and the Nile and right, it was just great land to have sure. So everybody fought over it. Yep, now, since Judah was caught in the middle of this conflict, it would make sense for Judah to ally with Ethiopia against Assyria.
16:54 - Husband (Host)
Sure, so yeah that's why they get Put in a lot of the same prophecies or announcements at the same time right, and but this, this brings me to like you know this, this isn't so much about God, it's just about world fucking events that are going on and how the. Israelites are reacting to these things. Yes, right, exactly that that's what strikes me as a very important piece to take away is that Ethiopia hasn't been a part of any biblical anything really right until right now, all of a sudden, there, there's this big chunk of this, this prophecy and this thing was going on, but we haven't.
17:30
Before this, god was in a much smaller circle you know, and now we're expanding out. Yes because cultures are expanding, not because God's expanding right, right, that's true.
17:42 - Wife (Host)
So do you remember there was a reference to Whirring wing?
17:46 - Husband (Host)
Yes.
17:47 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, Whirring wings. Yes, okay, so that refers to Ethiopia being an insect infested land. The Nile Valley is famous for its many buzzing insects.
17:58 - Husband (Host)
Got it.
17:58 - Wife (Host)
So that's what that had to do with.
18:00 - Husband (Host)
Once they had like a plague alochus even. We're gonna get into that a little bit yeah.
18:05 - Wife (Host)
So Isaiah is addressing Ethiopian ambassadors who have traveled to Jerusalem. Okay, okay. That's who he was talking to, sure? So then the Lord rejects the offer of help from the Ethiopians because he Claims he's more than able to deal with the Assyrians himself wait, god's, literally he's.
18:25 - Husband (Host)
he's negotiating with, with people that are trying to negotiate.
18:28 - Wife (Host)
He's like hey.
18:29 - Husband (Host)
I see you guys negotiating. I got this. Leave those fuckers alone.
18:33 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, well, okay, he's like this is Isaiah speaking for God, right? And Isaiah is like God says he got this.
18:41 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, thanks anyway, guys, but was he naked at the time?
18:43 - Wife (Host)
That's not yet. Okay, that's the next chapter and I will have I guess not naked.
18:47 - Husband (Host)
Maybe you still listen to the guy.
18:49 - Wife (Host)
Well, like I said, we'll talk about that Sure.
18:51 - Husband (Host)
Okay.
18:52 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, so the Ethiopians came to Mount Zion, or they're going to come to Mount Zion. But it's props according to Isaiah, he announces that there will be a day when, instead of Israelite messengers bringing news to Ethiopia of an alliance against the Assyrians, ethiopians will come to us and worship God, us, israel got it.
19:15 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, so instead of us Israel sending messengers to them, they will be coming to us Israel and I took issue with that because I don't recall any point in time where Egypt or Ethiopia was. You know Christian.
19:31 - Wife (Host)
That I'm aware of that I'm aware of.
19:32 - Husband (Host)
Now I am not, you know, I'm not a major historian here. Maybe I'm wrong.
19:37 - Wife (Host)
Right, we'll get into that a little bit, okay, okay, because I do have a note about that. All right, okay, so now we're in chapter 19. Okay.
19:45 - Husband (Host)
Okay.
19:45 - Wife (Host)
And this is about the Oracle concerning Egypt. Sure, okay, isaiah prophecies about the future of Egypt. He describes how Egypt will be conquered and its people enslaved, but he also promises that a remnant of Egyptians will be saved and turned back to God.
20:01 - Husband (Host)
Okay, okay, yeah.
20:03 - Wife (Host)
So that was the both and.
20:05 - Husband (Host)
Yes, right.
20:06 - Wife (Host)
You will be smacked by tools, but then yay everybody.
20:11 - Husband (Host)
Also, wasn't he going to plague them first or play after they turned back to God. He was going to plague them and then cure them, just to show him how powerful he was, or whatever. Yeah, okay.
20:18 - Wife (Host)
Yes, so the Lord strikes Egypt by giving them over to Civil War and submission to a cruel master. So he's letting them get smacked down and enslaved and humiliated and he's like I'm sorry for your luck, but you were naughty.
20:34 - Husband (Host)
Right, right.
20:35 - Wife (Host)
So Egypt was one of the great powers of the ancient world and, being situated immediately to the south of Israel, it was an empire that Israel constantly had to reckon with. Sure, Many times Egypt had been the enemy of Israel and at times Egypt had been a refuge for Israel, and sometimes Egypt offered a tempting but ungodly alliance to Israel.
20:56 - Husband (Host)
Sure.
20:57 - Wife (Host)
So it's like their frenemy.
20:58 - Husband (Host)
Right, right. You know what I mean. They're always there.
21:02 - Wife (Host)
Sometimes they team up for a common cause and sometimes like when it's safe to do so and all the other wars stop. Then they're like, and now we can get back to our conflict.
21:12 - Husband (Host)
Right, right.
21:14 - Wife (Host)
So that is why God presents both a prophecy against and for Egypt.
21:18 - Husband (Host)
It's kind of funny because they kind of still hold the same place in history right now. Mm-hmm, Like Egypt is a frenemy of Israel at the moment too.
21:27 - Wife (Host)
Right For now. For now, yeah, and yeah. I mean dealing with, like trying to let refugees in from the Israeli-Palestine conflict.
21:40 - Husband (Host)
Well, and all it would take is just for them to decide we're done with you and start fighting and it would cause, you know, a huge war in the region Right Exactly, so that's interesting. Mm-hmm.
21:50 - Wife (Host)
So Isaiah prophecies a coming civil war in Egypt. Yeah, Okay. So the Lord strikes Egypt by drawing up the Nile, thus wrecking their economy.
22:01 - Husband (Host)
Man.
22:01 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, he's going to do that okay.
22:03 - Husband (Host)
Yeah.
22:05 - Wife (Host)
So the Nile River was the key to Egypt's agriculture and economy, and for it to suffer a severe drought or lowering would have been a devastating effect on the lives of the Egyptians. Sure.
22:16 - Husband (Host)
Obviously.
22:17 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, Like even a child in fifth grade knows that.
22:20 - Husband (Host)
Right.
22:20 - Wife (Host)
Right. So the Nile, and if it goes away, that's bad.
22:26 - Husband (Host)
We need water, regardless of where you are in the world.
22:28 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, so the Lord is first going to strike Egypt by sending them foolish counsel? Okay, God damn foolish counsel. I hate foolish counsel Butters. As God strikes Egypt, not only does he give them cruel rulers, but he also gives these cruel rulers foolish counsel.
22:47 - Husband (Host)
Okay.
22:48 - Wife (Host)
So they're not only going to be mean, they're going to be mean and stupid.
22:50 - Husband (Host)
Got it, stephen Miller, for Trump.
22:53 - Wife (Host)
Stephen Miller for Trump.
22:54 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, right, yeah, okay.
22:59 - Wife (Host)
So the princes of Zohan have become fools. Do you remember that?
23:04 - Husband (Host)
What was it again? Say that one more time.
23:06 - Wife (Host)
The princes of Zohan I keep saying Zohan the princes of Zion have become fools.
23:14 - Husband (Host)
So they're talking about princes of Israel.
23:18 - Wife (Host)
Oh, you know what it is, zohan, okay, sorry.
23:20 - Husband (Host)
What are we talking about here? I?
23:22 - Wife (Host)
couldn't read what I have here oh okay, sorry yeah. The princes of. Okay, here it's verse 13. Ready yes. The princes of Zohan have become fools. The princes of Naph are deceived. They have also deluded Egypt, those who are the mainstay of its tribes. Okay, sure. That was verse 13. Okay, princes, here refers to a group of expert counselors of the Egyptian pharaoh. They are the ones who are being Counseling and being whatever.
23:55 - Husband (Host)
Yes, yes, okay.
23:58 - Wife (Host)
Despite the renowned wisdom they are mocked as incapable.
24:01 - Husband (Host)
Okay, okay.
24:01 - Wife (Host)
And that's what's happening there.
24:02 - Husband (Host)
Got it.
24:04 - Wife (Host)
So, moving on, when God strikes Egypt, there will be terror among the people, you know that makes sense, right yeah? Now, for thousands of years, the land of Judah lay submissively in the shadow of the great Egyptian empire. Isaiah prophecies a day when Judah will be mightier than Egypt and the land of Judah will be a terror to Egypt.
24:26 - Husband (Host)
Hmm, okay, that's interesting because I bet a lot of people do equate that today.
24:31 - Wife (Host)
So yeah. So in the last bit of that chapter Egypt is going to turn to God. Okay, Uh-huh. Isaiah's prophecies in this chapter appear to point to two different seasons in Egypt's future. In the nearer season, Egypt will experience sweeping judgment from God, leaving the nation divided and destitute. The second season is set further in the future, when God will return to earth and establish his kingdom, and in that era the Egyptians will recognize God and respect his power to destroy them. Then the people of Egypt will begin to worship him as their own God.
25:09 - Husband (Host)
Gotta have that fear before you start worshiping.
25:11 - Wife (Host)
Yes.
25:12 - Husband (Host)
It's always about fear.
25:14 - Wife (Host)
Now the prophecy states that five cities in Egypt will speak the language of Canaan. We were really confused about that. Yeah Like what the fuck does that mean?
25:23 - Husband (Host)
Right yeah.
25:24 - Wife (Host)
Okay. Some scholars suggest this means that those initial cities will be the beginning of a nationwide repentance and all of Egypt will end up swearing allegiance to God. In this time, the act of learning Israel's language, which Canaan refers to Israel.
25:41 - Husband (Host)
Okay, okay, that's what they were confused about because they defeated the Canaanites originally to move Right.
25:49 - Wife (Host)
So the language of Canaan was whatever Israel spoke.
25:51 - Husband (Host)
Sure Okay, all right.
25:54 - Wife (Host)
So the act of learning Israel's language may indicate a humility to fully adapt to the ways of God's people.
25:59 - Husband (Host)
Got it.
26:00 - Wife (Host)
You know they're being forced to learn that language.
26:01 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, yeah.
26:03 - Wife (Host)
One of these five key cities will be called City of the Sun. Some translations have a city of destruction, but that's because the Egyptian words or, I'm sorry, not the Egyptian the Hebrew words for sun and destruction are exactly the same, except for, like, one of them has a little dot under it.
26:25 - Husband (Host)
Okay.
26:26 - Wife (Host)
So it makes it hard to decipher. So most scholars like in some translations it still says city of the destruction.
26:34 - Husband (Host)
Sure.
26:34 - Wife (Host)
But most scholars agree that it should say city of the sun, which is likely a reference to the Egyptian city of the sun called Heliopolis.
26:42 - Husband (Host)
Oh, okay, right Sure.
26:45 - Wife (Host)
Which was a center of worship to the Egyptian sun. God Ra that makes sense that would be a big fucking deal if that city fell.
26:51 - Husband (Host)
Right, right.
26:53 - Wife (Host)
Now this comes to what I told you. We have a note about that. Later there did come to be a widespread knowledge of God in Egypt in the days of Jesus, more than a million Jews lived in Egypt. In the early days of Christianity there was a strong, vital church in Egypt for more than 600 years. Huh, okay, so that did happen, apparently.
27:17 - Husband (Host)
Fair enough, fair enough yeah. So I didn't want to like poop on you, but I did want to say no, no, I appreciate that and I guess you know, if I really were to stop and think about it, the Islamic religion didn't actually even happen until maybe like eight or 900 AD. So it was, it hadn't. Islam hadn't even established as a religion at this point. So it it makes some sense that Christianity might have taken some hold.
27:42 - Wife (Host)
I guess right in between.
27:44 - Husband (Host)
It was like a transitional between their, their old gods, and their new gods exactly, yeah, yep, yep.
27:52 - Wife (Host)
Okay so, ending up that chapter, an amazing piece between three formerly hostile enemies will occur. Okay, and that's when we were talking about that highway or byway or freeway.
28:05 - Husband (Host)
Yes okay.
28:06 - Wife (Host)
So God promises the day will come when there will be peace between Israel, egypt and Assyria? Okay and that would be amazing right. Yeah there will be trade and travel between the three nations. That's what he meant by a highway from Egypt to Assyria.
28:21 - Husband (Host)
Okay so that all three nations will prosper and that again, that makes sense like, and especially given that we're talking about a timeframe right now, that is, everybody's expanding their reach, right. Like obviously there's things that are Allowing people to trade more, reach out to further and further places and interact with more and more different people.
28:42 - Wife (Host)
Mm-hmm and so fight over God's more and to fight over God's more.
28:45 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, so it's. It's, it's taking hold in the Bible now what we're reading, because Society is moving forward right and that that. So it's causing different interactions, it's causing different problems, mm-hmm. And it's not because of God, it's because clashes of societies and right in cultures right.
29:03 - Wife (Host)
Right because Humanity evolves.
29:07 - Husband (Host)
Changes. You know, rose, I mean you know, so yeah, yes, so that was chapter 19.
29:14 - Wife (Host)
Okay, okay, yeah, are you a little more clear on all that now I'm I am that definitely helps out a lot?
29:18 - Husband (Host)
Yeah right, I mean it. I Grasp some of this when we were reading it, but I wasn't sure you know, like it was very muddled how they talked about it. So I wasn't sure how all this was breaking down.
29:28 - Wife (Host)
Well, I get really confused when we're talking about cities versus nations, versus kingdoms and I forget who belongs to what at what point sure and so Taking these notes really helped me understand who the fuck we're talking about right right. Okay, so now we're talking about chapter 20.
29:48 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, okay make.
29:49 - Wife (Host)
Syria to conquer Egypt and Ethiopia. Don't trust in Egypt.
29:53 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, okay.
29:55 - Wife (Host)
So Isaiah describes the Assyrian invasion of Judah. He warns the people of Judah not to rely on Egypt for help don't do it. But to trust in God alone. God is definitely not real and don't forget like this is yeah. Don't forget, though, that Judah and Israel are not at peace with each other when he's making this Proclamation, or whatever, so for him to be saying this to Judah, judah is like whom's to the fuck right Do you think you are to tell us these things like you, go away now.
30:31 - Husband (Host)
Right, right Was he. Was he naked yet? Though? No, no, not yet. All right okay.
30:36 - Wife (Host)
So then we talk about the political setting for the sign, the political setting. So remember, that chapter started in the year that tartan came to Ashdod. We were right in the year that. What, what, what, what now? Okay, it describes a time when the army of Assyria will conquer the Philistine city of Ashdod, which is an invasion that actually occurred in 7-eleven BC.
31:00 - Husband (Host)
Oh, okay, Well, there's some yeah yeah, there's some history for you? Yes, some history Okay.
31:04 - Wife (Host)
Yeah, so next the Lord gives Isaiah a sign to act out. Here we come.
31:10 - Husband (Host)
Okay.
31:11 - Wife (Host)
Okay now. Isaiah wore an outer garment of sack cloth right clothes of mourning. Yep, god told him to remove his sack cloth and to take his sandals off. Okay, now, isaiah was not actually nude. He was not completely without clothing. Instead, he only wore the inner garment customary in that day, sort of like if you were to walk around only in your underwear, or Okay. So the message wasn't about actual nudity. It was about complete poverty and humiliation, and Isaiah dressed as the poorest and most Destitute would dress he was naked but not nude.
31:53 - Husband (Host)
If that makes sense, all right, which I'll allow it. Yeah, that's not. It's not very clear when you're reading the Bible.
31:59 - Wife (Host)
No, and I guess that has?
32:00 - Husband (Host)
you have to know context and and how people Dressed back then and what they mean by naked versus nude right, right.
32:08 - Wife (Host)
So if you were reading it just as it says, which is what a lot of Christians claim. Yeah then no, he was naked.
32:16 - Husband (Host)
I have to say, though it it's a lot more fun to read it that way it is because imagining ding-dongs Swinging in the wind is funnier.
32:24 - Wife (Host)
It just is. I'm sorry like I don't mean to be a child, I just am right. Yeah, so that sign him marching around like poor and and destitute and in his undies and stuff. Yeah that was a sign of the coming humiliation of Egypt. Basically, he was dressing ahead of time.
32:47 - Husband (Host)
It was all part of the property Right?
32:50 - Wife (Host)
Well, he was dressing ahead of time in the way that Egypt would be dressing.
32:54 - Husband (Host)
Got it Okay, yep.
32:55 - Wife (Host)
It was a message against Egypt, because the king of Assyria would lead away the Egyptians as prisoners now I do have.
33:02 - Husband (Host)
I do have a problem with this, because one of the things that they compared was that he was gonna be. He's dressed like this, just like in, they say, just like the Assyrians or somebody Egyptians. One of them was gonna be led away showing their buttocks and stuff like that. Yeah so like they did compare it to nakedness at some level.
33:20 - Wife (Host)
They did, they did. Yeah, and I saw that in my notes too and I was like so it might just be Apologizing for the nakedness right.
33:30 - Husband (Host)
You know, I'm just throwing that out there. I'm not trying to say that they're wrong.
33:33 - Wife (Host)
What you're saying makes sense to me, but or it could be similar to when they cut their shirts short so that their junk showed right their Uncircumcised or circumcised penises for embarrassment. Sure like it could have been something like that where they're kind of naked.
33:53 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, I know, I and I don't know either, but I don't always have faith in these Interpretations that people either, because they don't always match up to what's being said. It sounds like they stretch a little bit to appease certain crowds right, you know.
34:07 - Wife (Host)
so Maybe they were naked, maybe they weren't, maybe their undies had the buttholes cut out.
34:14 - Husband (Host)
I don't know right, you know yeah.
34:16 - Wife (Host)
I, I don't know.
34:18 - Husband (Host)
Sure, and we won't know, because we can't go back to you know those times and see it if I could get into a time machine, you'd go visit Isaiah.
34:26 - Wife (Host)
I would go visit that day just to look and see where you actually naked dude what's up?
34:32 - Husband (Host)
Naked or undershirt.
34:35 - Wife (Host)
Like do you have undies on that's?
34:37 - Husband (Host)
all I want to know, yeah, why didn't Bill and Ted go back there?
34:39 - Wife (Host)
They should have.
34:40 - Husband (Host)
Right.
34:41 - Wife (Host)
That would have been fun for them, because then they could have seen Ding Dong, or no.
34:44 - Husband (Host)
Yeah Right, they would have had to change the rating on the movie, though, true.
34:48 - Wife (Host)
Yeah Well, they didn't have to show the Ding Dong. That's true, that's true they could have just showed their eyes going like really super wide going. Whoa dude Right.
34:57 - Husband (Host)
Yes, yes.
34:58 - Wife (Host)
Alright. So as the Assyrians took the Egyptians captive, they would humiliate them by stripping them and leading them away as prisoners, which would obviously be to the shame of Egypt.
35:09 - Husband (Host)
Right, okay, sure.
35:10 - Wife (Host)
So I tend to think that if they're trying to embarrass them, that they would strip them down super naked.
35:15 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, so which? When they compared Isaiah to that, that sounds like he's fucking naked.
35:22 - Wife (Host)
Yeah.
35:23 - Husband (Host)
So, and again, there's no way to know people are going to say what they're going to say, right. I like the idea that he's naked, better though.
35:29 - Wife (Host)
Right.
35:30 - Husband (Host)
So I might just, in my mind, keep it that way, because it's more fun.
35:32 - Wife (Host)
I'm going to keep it that way because it makes more sense to me, in spite of the very logical thing that was stated as far as, like you know, he was walking around in his undies, you guys.
35:42 - Husband (Host)
But ultimately I don't really think that it matters all that much. Either way you interpreted it Right. It means the same thing either way.
35:48 - Wife (Host)
Right.
35:48 - Husband (Host)
One way he's naked, one way he's clothed for a PG-13 movie.
35:52 - Wife (Host)
Right, you know I mean Either way. He was walking around in a state of destitution and humiliation.
35:57 - Husband (Host)
Right.
35:58 - Wife (Host)
It's a matter of, but how destitute was he?
36:01 - Husband (Host)
Right, right.
36:02 - Wife (Host)
So the final bit of that chapter is the signs message to Judah.
36:08 - Husband (Host)
Okay.
36:09 - Wife (Host)
When God judges Ethiopia and Egypt, it will be evident how foolish it was for Judah to look to them for protection against Assyria.
36:18 - Husband (Host)
Yeah, how dare you look for help outside of God?
36:20 - Wife (Host)
Right.
36:21 - Husband (Host)
God is all you need.
36:22 - Wife (Host)
That was a big part of what this is about and why God turned down the offer of assistance from the Ethiopians.
36:33 - Husband (Host)
Right.
36:33 - Wife (Host)
Because he's like they don't need your help, they just need to rely on me.
36:37 - Husband (Host)
If God's so fucking powerful, why did he need the help of the Assyrians to be a tool?
36:42 - Wife (Host)
He didn't need to do that.
36:43 - Husband (Host)
He chose to do that, whatever, fuck him. That's some fucking bullshit. They justify whatever the fuck they want to justify. Yeah, on any given day, based on what happened in history, and they're like, yeah, that's what happened, this is because God did this and that's because God did this and that's why there's so many fucking contradictions. Yeah, because they can't even keep their own information straight, because it's not true. Right, it's just bullshit. They're trying to pawn off on some God character.
37:13 - Wife (Host)
Right.
37:14 - Husband (Host)
Whatever?
37:14 - Wife (Host)
Whatever?
37:15 - Husband (Host)
So, anyway, that looks like all we have for today.
37:18 - Wife (Host)
That was my Q&A over chapters 16 through 20. I hope everybody feels a little bit better and that we cleared up some of the questions that we all had, I think.
37:28 - Husband (Host)
I learned some stuff today. I learned some stuff as well, it's not that I didn't have some of this information in my head, but it straightened it out in my head.
37:37 - Wife (Host)
I had none of this information in my head, so I appreciated all of the notes that I took. Honestly, like I was so lost. I was like somebody's a tool, but I don't remember who and why.
37:48 - Husband (Host)
Right, right.
37:49 - Wife (Host)
And also fear God.
37:50 - Husband (Host)
Definitely All right. Well, I mean don't, yeah, don't do that. No, don't Sorry I don't know why I said definitely, but don't, don't fear God.
37:57 - Wife (Host)
No, no, I mean, if you're one of these people in this book, yes, fear God, but if you're one of us who is outside of the book, canon right, yeah, no, no don't, don't, just don't.
38:08 - Husband (Host)
All right, so we will. Are we? Are we doing our book club still? Do you have a book club this week?
38:14 - Wife (Host)
Um, I need to do some more prep work for it, but should be okay, we may.
38:19 - Husband (Host)
we'll probably do a book club today. We'll see how that goes. Um, if you catch this before three pm on Sunday, which we'll be releasing here shortly, maybe we are doing a live on discord today. So if you haven't joined us on discord before, join us over there. If you haven't joined us on discord before which you see this or you hear this after that time frame, join us on discord anyway and catch the next live. That's on there.
38:43 - Wife (Host)
So, and we do one every Tuesday night at 10 pm, easter.
38:46 - Husband (Host)
Correct, correct, um. That being said, we may be back later with a book club. We will definitely have a wrap up out at some point today, and then we'll be back on Monday with Isaiah, chapter 21. We'll see you guys then.
39:00 - Wife (Host)
Bye.
