Jeremiah Chapter 41: Atheist Bible Study

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, Husband here! And I'm wife. If you've been listening to us then you

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[00:01:03] forward slash Sacrilegious Discourse. Welcome to Sacrilegious Discourse. I'm husband and I'm

[00:01:19] wife. Together we're reading the Bible for the very first time. We grew up without religion and wanted

[00:01:24] to know what all the fuss was about. Well, what did we learn so far? That God is a dick and apparently

[00:01:30] some people believe in talking donkeys. We're not trying to pass ourselves off as experts. Nope,

[00:01:34] we're just reading the Bible for the first time and giving our first take reaction. If you'd like

[00:01:39] to join us in this venture, you might consider starting an episode one. Otherwise jump in wherever

[00:01:44] you like. Alright let's go read the Bible. Yeah let's get to it.

[00:01:47] Husband, do you remember what happened on Friday and where the hell we are today?

[00:01:56] Well on Friday we got done reading Jeremiah chapter 40. Correct. And in that episode Jeremiah

[00:02:05] was well no I'm sorry let me rephrase that. Well yeah, no Jeremiah was given the choice to stay

[00:02:13] in Israel, Slash Judah, Slash Jerusalem or go to the Babylon. Yeah where he would be treated

[00:02:23] well and looked after. Correct. Correct. Yeah and he chose to stay in Jerusalem or whatever.

[00:02:29] Jerusalem adjacent anyway. Right and this is after that area has been completely destroyed by Babylon.

[00:02:37] Right right right and then he was there was the new leader of Israel or whatever his name was

[00:02:46] it wasn't Gettelaya. Yeah he's the governor. Right he's the new governor appointed by

[00:02:54] Naboo somebody. The king of Nazar. Yeah yeah. Yeah. What I think we're off to a strong start tonight.

[00:03:05] Look I'm sorry that all day today I've been struggling to remember dude's name. Right.

[00:03:09] Never kidnether. Yeah so anyway he was maybe doing some good stuff because people were coming back

[00:03:15] in from the country and what have you and Gettelaya was Gettelaya yeah yeah um and but then he heard

[00:03:21] that somebody wants to kill him. Some guy named Ishmael maybe. Ishmael yeah coming after him

[00:03:26] and he was like yeah we're like yeah you probably should pay attention to that dude yeah

[00:03:31] and then that was kind of where it left off. Yeah and if you listen to our Q&A Saturday

[00:03:36] you might already know a thing. You might already know a thing um which is that them two guys were

[00:03:43] buddies that had served together for a while. Right which is why Gettelaya was like get the

[00:03:49] vulgarity here he's not trying to kill me. Right right. So silly yeah so anyway that was Jeremiah chapter 40

[00:03:56] it sure as fuck was which means that today we're getting into Jeremiah chapter 41.

[00:04:01] All right let's do this. Okay doke.

[00:04:12] All right so we are getting into Jeremiah chapter 41 okay which is a continuation of the previous

[00:04:20] chapter um regarding Ishmael's conspiracy against Gettelaya. Got it yeah so we're in the middle of

[00:04:28] this whole narrative thing speaking of which this chapter in particular is part of a narrative section

[00:04:37] that runs from chapters 37 through 44. Okay okay yeah so here we go now it came to pass in the seventh

[00:04:48] month that Ishmael call me Ishmael the son of Nathaniah the son of Elishima of the royal family

[00:04:58] and of the officers of the king so see he's part of that royal line lineage came with 10 men to

[00:05:06] Gettelaya the son of a heikam at Midspa okay so he's like he's like he's like me and my buddies here

[00:05:16] and where he's like yeah yeah and there they ate bread together at Midspa okay well that's not

[00:05:23] that's not so bad so far yeah they sat down and had dinner yeah then Ishmael the son of Nathaniah

[00:05:30] and the ten men who were with him arose and struck Gettelaya the son of a heikam the son of chef

[00:05:35] on with the sword there it is and killed him whom the king of Babylon had made governor over the land

[00:05:42] boom dead I guess at least they gave him a last meal maybe oh wrong that's just rude yeah no

[00:05:50] no don't don't go over to somebody's house neat dinner with them and then kill them

[00:05:53] don't it's not not a nice thing to do Ishmael also struck down all the Jews who were with him

[00:05:59] oh that is with Gettelaya at Midspa and the Chaldeans who were found there the men of war

[00:06:07] he's like you're dead you're dead your dad ishmael is like everybody's dead I don't feel like this

[00:06:12] is a good move this is probably this is that fucking conquered by the Chaldeans and Babylon and everything

[00:06:17] and you're killing them already he's like watch this what did he it right and it happened on the

[00:06:23] second day after he had killed Gettelaya when as yet no one knew it that certain men came from

[00:06:29] Shesham from Shiloh and from Samaria 80 men with their own beard shaved and their closed horn

[00:06:37] having cut themselves with offerings and incense in their hand to bring them to the house of

[00:06:43] the Lord okay so let's let's go read some notes here real quick okay let's catch ourselves up sure

[00:06:48] okay so Ishmael murdered Gettelaya along with all the Judean officials and Babylonian advisors

[00:06:54] supervisors at Gettelaya's headquarters in Midspa during a meal time when the covenant community

[00:07:01] is celebrated and the people were less guarded okay so they were like wasn't that great oh by the

[00:07:07] way you're dead right and apparently it's nobody new for days right right which is interesting

[00:07:13] and so that makes the treachery of his act like all the worst because they broke bread together

[00:07:18] right and he he took the cowards way like he killed them while they were down not in the heat of

[00:07:23] battle sure like you didn't even like fight with them or yell at them or say you know pick up your

[00:07:28] weapon he was just like and by the way I hate you buy right right yeah so the day Gettelaya was

[00:07:34] murdered was remembered as a fast day by the post captivity Jews because on that day the hope of

[00:07:40] a of living a separate life in the promised land completely vanished got it like in that one dumb

[00:07:46] move yeah it was off yeah they were completely done right and the murder was likely

[00:07:52] avenged by a third deportation of Jews you know based solely on this guy's actions right yeah yeah

[00:08:01] so Ishmael was of the royal family and one of the officers of the king a descendant of David

[00:08:08] and he was probably jealous that Gettelaya was appointed governor so that's why he was like I'll show

[00:08:13] you sure making him more willing to do the work of the king of ammonites so he's here at the

[00:08:21] behest of the ammonites ishmael is yeah okay yeah ishmael and his men had so effectively killed all the

[00:08:30] men at the misspeck settlement that it took some time for the news of the murder to be known

[00:08:36] oh wow so yeah it was not just like the next day but it was like a few days right right because

[00:08:42] they just killed them all like one two three go you're all dead yeah there was nobody even left to

[00:08:47] like tell the tale this was a planned assassination slash yes whatever yes okay um there were

[00:08:53] warshipers of Yahweh in the lands that were formerly part of the kingdom of Israel conquered by the

[00:08:59] Assyrians more than a hundred years before this and perhaps they were influenced by King Josiah's

[00:09:06] reforms or perhaps they came from the southern kingdom of Judah okay these pilgrims the ones

[00:09:13] who were coming remember yeah like I just said that these guys came with their beards shaped and stuff

[00:09:21] they may have been descendants of Judeans who had moved north after Samaria fell in 722 BC

[00:09:28] okay shaving their beards was a sign of deep mourning okay so they were mourning the loss

[00:09:36] of Judea and coming to like bring their prizes and and commissary but also you know they had heard that

[00:09:47] they would be invited back yeah so it was like you know bitter sweet you know what I mean they were

[00:09:53] coming to rejoin but also to mourn right okay so they had that's why they had shaved their beards

[00:09:59] okay this large group of men came from the north to bring offerings and sacrifices to the temple

[00:10:06] since the Babylonians destroyed the temple as we read back in 2nd Kings yeah they came in

[00:10:12] mourning to bring grain offerings and incense to the ruins of the temple their offerings were

[00:10:17] bloodless sacrifices because no facilities were available for animal sacrifices got it and since

[00:10:24] the water oh I'm not there yet nothing okay all right so we continue yeah mm-hmm now ishmael

[00:10:32] the son of nethanaya went out from his pot to meet them so he was not expecting these guys calm

[00:10:38] right okay this is a surprise and he was weeping as he went along always putting on a show now

[00:10:44] he's putting on a show yeah and it happened as he met them that he said to them come to get a liar

[00:10:49] the son of the heathum so it was when they came into the midst of the city that ishmael met

[00:10:55] the son of nethanaya killed or I'm sorry that ishmael the son of nethanaya killed them and cast

[00:11:02] them into the midst of a pit holy shit and he and his men he and all the men who were with him

[00:11:08] he's just he's killing Israel it's all over the place here yeah damn yeah so he's just like

[00:11:14] what does it feel like he doesn't even fucking care apparently well okay so the first group he killed

[00:11:21] was at the behest of this ammonite king sure he was more than happy to do it because he's like I

[00:11:25] should have been the governor fuck this guy right right you know I don't give a shit find whatever yeah

[00:11:31] and you Babylonians you're gone too because fuck you for invading us right so that was the first

[00:11:39] bout of murders the second bout he was caught on a wares he was not expecting the second group of

[00:11:45] people to come and he had to kill them or else you know they were going to give away the game

[00:11:50] got it you know okay so he had to kill him and he threw him into a sister okay now since the water

[00:11:55] supply was so precious in Palestine the fouling of a sister and was a particularly irresponsible

[00:12:02] act of vandalism got it so it's like dude why do you have to do that too yeah cool but 10 men

[00:12:09] were found among them who said to ish male do not kill us but we have treasures of wheat barley oil

[00:12:15] and honey out in the field so he de-sisted and did not kill them among their brethren now the pit

[00:12:23] into which ish male had cast all the dead bodies of the men who me it's lame because of get a liar

[00:12:28] was the same one asa the king had made for fear of Bayasha king of Israel okay ish male the son of

[00:12:37] nethaniah filled it with the slain then ish male carried away captive all the rest of the people who

[00:12:44] were in miss pa the king's daughters and all the people who remained in miss pa whom nebby zera dan

[00:12:51] the captain of the guard had committed to get a liar the son of a hikam okay all right like I

[00:12:58] feel like I should stop saying so and so the son of so and so because that like confuses us like

[00:13:03] it as extra names and we really don't fucking me know it does it does make it a lot more confusing

[00:13:08] to me I'm sure that this is how they were used to conversing back then maybe but but for us it's like no

[00:13:15] I just need get a liar as far right it's very extra and we don't we don't need that yeah yeah so

[00:13:22] okay just to recap ish male killed get a liar and the Babylonians at that table right then he killed

[00:13:31] these guys that were coming from afar bringing gifts yeah and through them in a sister except for

[00:13:39] 10 and so then ish male carried those 10 and all the other people that remained in town he took

[00:13:47] them as prisoners and ran away with them got it okay some of them being the king's daughters

[00:13:52] okay all right yeah so that's what's happening okay makes sense and ish male carried away carried

[00:14:00] them away captive and departed to go over to the aminites okay so he's affecting back to the

[00:14:06] back to the aminites but when johanan the son of korea and all the captains of the forces that were

[00:14:14] with him heard of all the evil that ish male had done they took all the men and went to fight with

[00:14:20] ish male and they found him by the great pool that is in gibbian so it was when all the people who

[00:14:26] were with ish male saw johanan and all the captains of the forces who were with him that they were

[00:14:33] glad they were like oh thank goodness somebody's here to save us from this creeptastic murderer

[00:14:40] yeah then all the people whom ish male had carried away captive from his but turned around and came

[00:14:46] back and went to johanan the son of korea but ish male escaped from johanan with eight men

[00:14:53] and went to the aminites yeah fuck him anyway right okay brah yeah okay bye go to the aminites

[00:14:59] we don't care see ya then johanan and all the captains of the forces that were with him took from

[00:15:05] mispa all the rest of the people whom he had recovered from ish male after he had murdered gettolaya

[00:15:12] the mighty men of war and the women and the children and the unix whom he had brought back from

[00:15:17] gibbian and they departed and dwelt in the habitation of chinham which is near Bethlehem

[00:15:25] okay one on their way to egypt okay so johanan is like obviously we can't go back to you know

[00:15:33] where we were staying where we were yeah because ish male nicks that deal for us the Babylonians

[00:15:38] are gonna have our hides so we gotta go to egypt that's our only hope yeah so he's taken

[00:15:46] the people with him back to egypt okay which to me is just a turn of irony right yeah because of

[00:15:53] the chaldeans okay as they went on their way to egypt because of the chaldeans for they were afraid

[00:15:59] of them because ish male had murdered gettolaya whom the king of Babylon had made governor in the land

[00:16:06] right okay yeah so that's the end of that chapter now ish males motive in transporting the remnant

[00:16:13] may have been threefold ish male the murderer yeah okay one he may have wanted to escape punishment

[00:16:19] so he took all the people with him right sure two he may have wanted to find refuge with bayolas who

[00:16:25] had instigated the assassination of gettolaya bayolas was the king of the ammonites got it which

[00:16:31] I mean yeah that's where he was going right obviously he wanted to find refuge with him yeah and three

[00:16:36] he probably wanted to sell the remnant as slaves to the ammonites oh okay yeah so this guy

[00:16:43] wasn't really an israelite at all I mean he was by blood but he was by blood but not in his heart

[00:16:49] he's like fuck this shit I'm just gonna get what I can get yeah you know worse than Jeremiah honestly

[00:16:55] like it Jeremiah was a double spy or whatever yeah like a double agent but he didn't at least

[00:17:03] according to these stories right as recorded he didn't like lift sword and hack people to pieces

[00:17:11] we didn't hear Jeremiah mentioned once in this chapter or the word of God or anything right

[00:17:16] that's because we're counting of like they killed him yeah we're in story land that's why when

[00:17:22] when you're in story land sometimes the main character doesn't show up yeah so I mean it was

[00:17:28] we already kind of knew this was coming and not all of it no not all of it not all of it but

[00:17:34] I don't know I feel like

[00:17:39] this just makes this story weirder it doesn't make it like better it just makes it weirder like he

[00:17:43] didn't really he just murdered it was some other king and some other land that one of this

[00:17:48] israelite guy to murder him and he's like you got good reason to do it so do it and then he killed

[00:17:53] him and then that was that but the that was the smaller picture the bigger picture is and that was

[00:18:00] the very end right right any any potential chance for judeia to reestablish their at that point yeah

[00:18:09] which which makes sense though like we already know we already know that you know there was a

[00:18:14] Babylonian exile right yeah so we knew that this this whole thing was kind of weird to begin with

[00:18:20] like what they're still living in they were reestablishing themselves right yeah yeah that's

[00:18:25] that was odd so I mean it this actually makes more sense now yeah I mean to some degree I I

[00:18:31] appreciate it because it let's us know that like everything didn't just happen overnight like it

[00:18:36] wasn't just like and Babylon came in and took charge and killed all the kings and that was at

[00:18:41] the end right right there was a lot of like and this happened over here and those people were still

[00:18:46] fighting over there and then you had some some of the Jewish people were like fighting their own

[00:18:53] interests yeah you know yeah like they weren't all on the same team right that to me bears

[00:19:02] repeating in my mind because to me I hear these stories and I'm like the Jews did this and the Jews

[00:19:10] thought that and it's very easy to think of them as a monolith I can't just yeah yeah yeah

[00:19:16] I gotta say though if so Jeremiah decided to stay with us remnant and and Judah right and he's a

[00:19:23] prophet who can see the future no he's a prophet who God tells him things that God wants him to know

[00:19:31] right I'm having trouble understanding what his purpose was to stay here I have no idea because

[00:19:37] there's literally nobody that's gonna matter from this group right doing anything right they're

[00:19:42] either dead heading to Egypt or heading to the Ammonites right and so so what like what was your

[00:19:49] purpose here what it what did God want you to do here I don't know it doesn't make any sense I think

[00:19:54] we've got how many chapters do we have in Jeremiah I don't know oh I thought maybe we were coming

[00:20:01] up on the end but no we've still got several more chapters yeah so okay yeah I couldn't tell you

[00:20:09] okay well maybe it'll become clear I kind of doubt it honestly sometimes there's just these random

[00:20:14] things that happen in the Bible and it's like yep that happened well maybe he's going with Johanon

[00:20:21] and the surviving remnant to Egypt maybe maybe but he would he literally didn't come up in this

[00:20:29] story at all so I'm just that was kind of odd and I feel like we're gonna just like kind of

[00:20:34] buzz over this right and it'll just be a thing well let's be on the lookout for that tomorrow

[00:20:40] and if it doesn't come up we'll be like the fuck up in a Jeremiah sure sure all right well that

[00:20:46] was Jeremiah chapter 41 sure it's fuck was which means that we'll be back tomorrow with Jeremiah chapter 42

[00:20:54] our favorite one 42 yeah yeah all right we'll see you then bye

[00:21:03] hey wife I guess that's the end but husband that's just sad it doesn't have to be we are on lots

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