Jeremiah Chapter 47: Atheist Bible Study

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, husband here. And I'm wife. If you've been listening to us then you

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[00:01:15] Welcome to SAC Religious Discourse. I'm husband and I'm wife. Together we're

[00:01:20] reading the Bible for the very first time. We grew up without religion and

[00:01:24] wanted to know what all the fuss was about. Well what did we learn so far? That

[00:01:27] God is a dick and apparently some people believe in talking donkeys. We're not

[00:01:32] trying to pass ourselves off as experts. Nope we're just reading the Bible for

[00:01:36] the first time and giving our first take reaction. If you'd like to join us in

[00:01:40] this venture you might consider starting at episode one. Otherwise jump in

[00:01:43] wherever you like. Alright let's go read the Bible. Yeah let's get to it.

[00:01:50] Husband! Wife! Do you remember what happened yesterday and where the fuck

[00:01:54] were today? Well yesterday we read chapter 46 of Jeremiah. Sure it's that day.

[00:02:00] And in that chapter Jeremiah or God or somebody I mean it sounds less like

[00:02:08] Jeremiah now because it's almost like Baruch's telling us... I don't know it's

[00:02:13] just a weird way they're mentioning it but basically God was saying Egypt's

[00:02:19] going to get fucked. Yeah. But the thing is as much as he said that it never

[00:02:26] actually fully happened in our research that we kind of did and so God was wrong

[00:02:32] Kind of yeah. I mean you know... Egypt is still here today so... Egypt did get attacked

[00:02:37] and yes Egypt did lose some battles but Egypt was never fully invaded and

[00:02:43] taken over and so God was wrong. Egypt is still Egypt. In fact in fact the

[00:02:49] Israelites flourished in Egypt after they were supposed to have been destroyed

[00:02:54] Exactly. So I think something went haywire there with the whole God idea. I

[00:03:00] think that Babylon was looking so hot at the moment that they were like this

[00:03:06] is our it girl. You know what I'm saying? They were like oh damn we can totally make

[00:03:11] this prophecy work. See? Yeah it's obvious. They're gonna win. They're totally

[00:03:15] going to win. It's so obvious what's gonna happen here and I mean by all rights

[00:03:19] it could very well have happened that way Babylon was huge for a minute. Right right

[00:03:24] but they didn't stay. They didn't yeah it didn't work out. I mean we don't talk about

[00:03:29] a current day Babylon but we sure as fuck talk about a modern-day Egypt. Yeah yeah

[00:03:34] we sure do. We sure do. So anyway there wasn't really much to say about they

[00:03:39] basically God was like Egypt is gonna get screwed over. Yep that's pretty much

[00:03:43] all there was. Yep. So that was Jeremiah chapter 46. Yes. Which means that today

[00:03:48] we're getting into. Jeremiah chapter 47. Oh right let's do this. Okie dokie.

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[00:05:33] slash spoken today. All right we are hopping into Jeremiah chapter 47. Okay and

[00:05:42] just a quick note before I get into the chapter itself let us not forget that

[00:05:48] this is part of a series of oracles against foreign nations. Right and this

[00:05:55] will cover chapters 46 through 51 which is the rest of the book of Jeremiah. Oh

[00:06:01] it is so 51's the last chapter. I believe so yeah see the 51 or 52 but I'm

[00:06:06] pretty sure it's 51. Okay. So the rest of these every chapter is gonna be a

[00:06:10] different nation that God is like and I'm gonna get you and you and you. Okay

[00:06:15] and moreover these are not in chronological order right these are in

[00:06:21] geographic order like starting from like nearest to you know moving up the map.

[00:06:27] I mean there was like no point throughout Jeremiah that we were in chronological

[00:06:32] order to begin with so we might as well just stick with that theme. Right exactly

[00:06:36] yeah so just want to put that out there before we start and today we're getting

[00:06:42] into the Philistines. Okay yeah. So here we go the word of the Lord that came

[00:06:50] to Jeremiah the prophet against the Philistines before I don't even discuss

[00:06:54] the Philistines at all throughout the by like Jeremiah yet. I'm holding up a

[00:06:59] finger that says one moment please. Okay okay yeah before Pharaoh attacked Gaza

[00:07:05] what? Okay what? Yeah wait wait wait wait what the okay so let me let me read this

[00:07:12] word this sentence again. Okay yeah. The word of the Lord that came to Jeremiah

[00:07:16] the prophet against the Philistines before Pharaoh attacked Gaza. So we have not

[00:07:22] discussed this. Let me go to my notes. Okay and let us read about the very first

[00:07:27] verse of this chapter because what the ever loving fuck right yeah okay so

[00:07:33] there is no actual historical evidence. I'm not saying it didn't happen but we

[00:07:39] don't have evidence of any Egyptian king smiting Gaza. Okay okay so don't know

[00:07:46] what the fuck they're talking about. I think I would call it attacking that

[00:07:49] smiting. Smiting is more of a god thing. Right right exactly. It was no doubt hit by

[00:07:55] some of them like obviously because there's always all kinds of shit going on

[00:08:01] like this was a like the Israelites were right in the middle of all kind of shit

[00:08:04] happening. Right and and Gaza was getting hit every which way too. It was right

[00:08:10] there in the minute. But my understanding is what we've read so far is it feels like

[00:08:13] you know the Israelites are almost kind of friendly with Egypt. So they're

[00:08:18] frenemies. They're right yeah but so this is kind of confusing to me. Right in

[00:08:22] this in this time and place. Sure you know sure so again this may have happened at

[00:08:28] some point but it was like small beans never recorded and when or by whom does

[00:08:34] not appear in any written history. Interesting. So we're like okay I believe you

[00:08:38] sure. If this occurred if this attack occurred it would likely have been when

[00:08:46] Nico was marching to Haran in 609 BCE. Okay sure because Nico's campaign at

[00:08:54] that point had a twofold purpose it was one to prop up a tottering Assyria against

[00:09:01] a powerful Babylon thus maintaining the balance of power which okay that

[00:09:06] tracks and two to extend his own empire in a time of international chaos when

[00:09:12] everything was addressed like we just said. There were two empires fighting over

[00:09:16] the middle ground essentially and Israel happened to be in that middle ground. Yes

[00:09:20] and so Gaza might have got struck by Egypt at some point who fucking knows. Right but

[00:09:26] to say it got struck also might be a little bit of a misnomer because it felt like they

[00:09:32] were reaching out to Egypt for help against the Babylonians so I don't know I mean

[00:09:39] it feels like the the struck bit might be a little bit strongly worded. Yes totally

[00:09:45] agree with you so there's that. Yeah don't know verse one what the fuck. We have no

[00:09:51] historical context to relate this to so like we can't speak anymore about that

[00:09:56] other than it says it in the Bible. Yeah okay all right so I'm like yeah I'm sure

[00:10:03] that lots of little cities got marched over. Sure you know whatever and whoever was

[00:10:09] running that little city in that minute may have been much like Jeremiah on the side

[00:10:16] of Babylon fearing that Babylon was the larger power and so then maybe Egypt in marching

[00:10:23] through at one point was like oh you like them okay we'll fuck you for a minute. Well

[00:10:29] my understood so Gaza as it sits now is essentially the part of Israel that is like

[00:10:35] bordered up against Egypt. So this is this would be like if they took it over if

[00:10:40] they struck them this would be basically them taking over an area that would buffer

[00:10:45] like they can set up the fences before yes you know the right strategic so that the

[00:10:51] Babylonians hit this wall of their troops before it hits their actual country. Exactly

[00:10:55] so I could see that being the case like using that as a military fortification right and

[00:11:01] less as a you know we struck this city today. Right yeah especially if they were frenemies

[00:11:07] like it's they're gonna be like okay you guys can obviously beat us so I guess yeah just

[00:11:12] come on in. Like you guys are guard people that were used to ruin us. Sure right yeah whatever

[00:11:20] okay so carrying on chapter. Okay now we have reached verse two okay yeah this is the

[00:11:29] word behold waters rise out of the north and shall be an overflowing flood. Of course we

[00:11:36] know that that's Babylon. Well yeah anything anytime they ever refer to the north it's

[00:11:41] Babylon and when they say it's an overflowing flood it's always like their troops are coming

[00:11:46] in large numbers. Yeah sure okay yeah and they shall overflow the land and all that is in

[00:11:52] it the city and those who dwell within then the men shall cry and all the inhabitants of

[00:12:00] the land shall wail. So even though we're talking about Egypt here we're still talking about

[00:12:07] Babylon to conquering them. Well we're supposed to be talking about the Philistines so which

[00:12:14] is the Philistines is that the Egyptians or what are the Philistines exactly I don't even really

[00:12:19] think that's the only thing that I can say is that the Philistines are not going to be

[00:12:25] in the city. Yeah it's all very confusing and I have some notes about that as well that I

[00:12:30] will get to a just a minute let me finish this verse here okay yeah then the men shall cry

[00:12:35] and all the inhabitants of the land shall wail at the noise of the stamping hooves of his strong

[00:12:41] horses at the rushing of his chariots at the rumbling of his wheels the fathers will not even

[00:12:48] yeah yeah I was like damn because of the day that comes to plunder all the Philistines to cut off

[00:12:56] from tear and siden every helper who remains for the Lord shall plunder the Philistines the remnant

[00:13:04] of the country of cahstor got it okay so I'm not done but let me just cut back to my notes

[00:13:10] for a minute okay so he's talking about the afflicted cities right yeah and so he's saying to cut

[00:13:20] off from tear and siden that was very likely meant that any available Phoenician help would be

[00:13:28] prevented from reaching philistia okay okay all right so tear and siden were Phoenician cities not

[00:13:35] Philistine but they were probably in a desperate alliance with the Philistines against the force of

[00:13:40] Babylon got it and all of these names are like so confusing to me like all I heard was Mesopotamia

[00:13:48] Mesopotamia Mesopotamia and that word Mesopotamia was not in the paragraph that I just read to you

[00:13:53] got it yeah like it's all one deserty blur to me because I am ignorant right can I interject here

[00:14:02] for just a second so I did a quick search on the the Googles here and what I came up with is that

[00:14:08] they were people that settled in canin and then they were in the Gaza area like there's a bunch of

[00:14:13] city states in that area and that they were they had a rivalry with the Israelites which almost

[00:14:19] makes it sound to me like these are the people like you know how the Israelites destroyed all the

[00:14:24] amonites all the all that all that this sounds like maybe a remnant of the guys yes and that's

[00:14:32] why there's this rivalry that tracks because I'm actually going to mention about that in a minute

[00:14:37] yeah and it also says they were skilled seafaring people so like you know how they always talk about

[00:14:40] the well yeah yeah and calf tour was actually Crete of Greece okay yeah yeah so that tracks got it

[00:14:49] okay yeah so okay continuing on with our chapter sure baldness has come upon Gaza ash colonists

[00:14:55] cut off with the remnant of their valley okay okay so now let's go back to our notes for a minute

[00:15:02] okay so the niv explains it a little bit more clearly and that's a different version than what we're

[00:15:09] reading which we're reading the niv but this is new international version but that's what we're

[00:15:15] reading so I don't understand what they're quoting here okay because we are reading the niv okay

[00:15:21] right I think you're reading it so we are so I think that maybe this is a misquote of what translation

[00:15:31] but this translation whatever it is says Gaza will shave her head in mourning

[00:15:37] rather than what ours says baldness has come upon Gaza okay yeah yeah we make more sense with the

[00:15:42] because that indicates what they've said in the past as far as like grieving

[00:15:47] yeah practices and things like that exactly so yeah I read from the niv so no that wasn't there you

[00:15:54] are incorrect whoever you are so the septuagents the Greek version translation describes the quote-unquote

[00:16:04] valley as the remainder of anachim in place of the remnant of their valley okay so

[00:16:14] you know where it said baldness has come upon Gaza ash clonas cut off with the remnant of their valley

[00:16:20] okay yeah what that means is the anachim were the race of giants that were said to live in the

[00:16:30] southern part of the land of canine oh oh oh the ones that came across they were first trying to

[00:16:36] enter uh-huh interesting okay yeah um the use of the term anachim seeks to link the people of Gaza

[00:16:44] and ash clon with the race of giants that inhabited canine before the arrival of the Israelites

[00:16:52] so exactly what you said a remnant of the people that are trying to conquer yeah yes that is correct

[00:16:58] interesting right yeah like oh okay I see okay so carrying on unless did you have something else

[00:17:06] that you know I just yeah that's just I'm mostly I was silent because I was just thinking that over

[00:17:10] my head and I'm like that's like it's we've talked about it throughout especially this book

[00:17:18] this stretch of this book yeah because like there's so much that God says that is like final

[00:17:24] and and with with such force that he's going to do these things but he doesn't actually ever

[00:17:30] follow through and like we've been talking about it in the context of Egypt who we've kind of alluded

[00:17:33] back to some of the stuff that he said back when he was trying to destroy some of these other tribes

[00:17:38] and so in here we are even the giants even in this book that's still coming back up yeah

[00:17:43] that's amazing they they might be giants and you still didn't kill them right yeah okay so carrying on

[00:17:49] how long will you cut yourself oh you sword of the Lord how long until you are quiet put yourself

[00:17:57] up into your scabbard rest and be still he's he's reading he's arguing with the sword okay okay

[00:18:08] okay and then the responses how can it be quiet seeing the Lord has given it a charge against

[00:18:14] Ashclon and against the seashore there he has appointed it okay the end so he's he's going to

[00:18:21] destroy the sword yeah right so the dialogue between the sword of the Lord and the prophet

[00:18:29] is a form of personification about which there are several legends okay um you know

[00:18:35] the most famous like the sword right would be Excalibur right okay all right not saying that

[00:18:42] that comes specifically from that but there are always like um Beowulf had his very special magical

[00:18:50] sword throughout cultures throughout cultures there's always this special magical sword right sure

[00:18:56] and so this alludes to that whole legendary magical swords ability to talk with you got it okay um

[00:19:06] so there is no consensus as to when this um speech was delivered sure it may have occurred during

[00:19:15] the fourth year of Zedakaya but others assign it to some time even during the reign of Josiah I think

[00:19:21] I said this the last time for the last chapter but these little sides about the different um

[00:19:27] countries mm-hmm don't sound like I mean they just sound so out of place yeah like we could do

[00:19:34] without this we've never heard Jeremiah even once evoke this poetry and um personification of

[00:19:44] inanimate objects and like what the fuck is this right if this Baruch trying to like you know

[00:19:51] make his book prettier and yeah it's just this doesn't fit no like it doesn't it's not doing it for me

[00:19:59] no it's it's very out of place but it does belong together with the chapter that we just read

[00:20:07] sure sure like all of these you could tell they were a unit because they belong together but they

[00:20:13] don't belong in this book right so yeah I find that interesting yeah so there we go that's

[00:20:20] is that all we had today then that is all we had today then all right well that was Jeremiah

[00:20:25] chapter 47 sure it's fuck was which means that we will be back tomorrow with Jeremiah chapter 48

[00:20:32] all right we'll see you then bye

[00:20:41] hey wife I guess that's the end but husband that's just sad it doesn't have to be we are on lots

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