Daniel Chapter 9: Bible Study by Atheists

[00:00:00] Welcome to Sacrilegious Discourse. For this is what the Sovereign Lord says! Why do you need prophets to tell people who you are and what you want? If you can justify everything that the God of the Bible has done, then you can justify any of your behavior.

[00:00:15] A lot of this mentality is trickling into what is now mainstream right-wing Christianity. I am capable of empathy greater than this God of the Bible. This is a Bible that they tell kids this is the good Lord. This is the good book.

[00:00:33] He is fantasizing about murder, mass murder. Head over to sacrilegiousdiscourse.com right now to find out how to leave us a review or support us on Patreon. Wife! I hate Chapter 9. Do you know where we are and how we got here? What?

[00:00:54] Yeah, that was a really weird start. Well, it's just that this chapter had so much to it. I hate it. But do you know how we got here? Yeah, we read Daniel Chapter 8 yesterday. We did what happened. So in that chapter, we covered Daniel and his visions.

[00:01:15] And there was a...let's see... There were horns. There were lots of horns. There was a ram. There was a ram and a goat. And there was a unigote. A unigote? That turned into a quadra goat. Yeah, and then it grew some other horn too.

[00:01:30] On top of one of the other horns maybe? One of the horns grew a horn. And the horn went all the way up to heaven or some shit. Yeah, sure. Good shit. Obviously we're still talking about symbolism and nations killing other nations

[00:01:45] and destroying them and rising up and ancient ones and gods and I don't fucking know what's going on at this point. It's a crazy vision mess. Yeah, that's how I feel about this chapter that we're about to read. So that's why I started out like...

[00:02:06] Ugh, do you know? Got it, yeah. It's making me tired. So I mean, as we've been reading through them, you've been supplying enough notes that I'm like, okay. I guess. Yeah, I guess. But... That's the thing though. Like I have to supply so many notes. Yeah.

[00:02:26] Because otherwise, I have no clue what's happening. Right, you couldn't... I don't think anybody could just read these chapters and be like, yeah, that made sense. No, it doesn't fucking make sense. I guess from a history perspective it is forcing us to learn

[00:02:40] a lot about what's happening in that area during that time. Yeah, but it's also forcing us to take the main view on what those histories mean, right? Like we're relying on other people to tell us what these things mean and we can't take it from a first source

[00:02:55] because there is no first source other than the Bible. Okay, well, you're right. You're not wrong. Right. But what I was referring to is, as we're reading this and we're like, wait, who did what? Then we're learning about like Babylon and what they were doing. Yeah, I know.

[00:03:14] And so when I bring notes about Babylon, I'm telling you what Babylon did, not from the Bible perspective. And I appreciate that, but I don't appreciate the vagueness of these prophecies and how we have to... Me too. Like it's like they're muddled on purpose. Yeah.

[00:03:30] They are not clear so that they can be whatever somebody wants them to be. They obviously meant for them to mean a certain thing when they wrote them, but they wrote them in such a way that if they're wrong, they didn't necessarily have to be wrong.

[00:03:45] But at the very best, they did not translate well and they did not last over time. Right. And that is frustrating when I'm just trying to understand what the fuck you're talking about. Well, you say they don't last over time, but Christians do say they last over time

[00:04:01] because they reinterpret them to mean whatever they want. And that's the part that's frustrating me. Yeah, I'm not worried about those fucks, honestly. Well, we should be though. No, I know. Given the current state of our nation and everything that's going on. You're right.

[00:04:14] And that is why we're reading this. Right. I'm just so irritated with them that I'm just like, fuck all y'all and your interpretations. I don't disagree with you. I just, you know, that's why we're dealing with this entire thing to begin with, as you said. Right. And unfortunately,

[00:04:28] part of that is trying to understand these prophecies and then how we got to our modern, somewhat interpretations of what these might mean. And even those interpretations though today are a little bit muddled depending on who you're talking to about them. Right? Like they could mean different things

[00:04:45] in any number of different sects. So... You said sects. Sects. I know. Yeah, whatever. Well, this chapter is going to have more Christian stuff in it that isn't Christian because Christ wasn't born yet. Right, yeah. But, you know, that stuff. It's there. Yeah. Okay.

[00:05:05] So that was Daniel chapter 8. Sure as fuck was. And as you already let us know what today we're reading. Daniel chapter 9. Right, let's do this. Okay. Alright, let's hop into Dan I.L. Chapter 9. Or Daniel chapter 9. Well, whatever you want to call them. Whatever you say. Yeah.

[00:05:31] I always start by talking about how this book can be divided into two parts. One, a set of six court tales in chapters 1 through 6 written mostly in Aramaic. Okay. And two, four apocalyptic visions in chapter 7 through 12 written mostly in Hebrew. And those are the ones that were

[00:05:51] in the apocalyptic visions. And how? Got it. Yeah. I'm kind of split between let's just start reading the chapter versus should I read this whole history thing. So I'm just going to start reading it and then when we get to a what the fuck's happening, then we're

[00:06:11] going to switch over to my history and my notes. Okay. And I had to take down some history because whatever, you'll see. Sure. It's too many. It's too much. Okay. It's too far. Got it. Yeah. Alright, so Daniel chapter 9. Right. In the first year of Darius,

[00:06:30] son of Xerces, a mead by descent. Okay. So he was given the title of the Babylonian kingdom. Okay, so in that first year. Yeah. In the first year of his reign, I, Daniel understood from the scriptures according to the word of the Lord given to Jeremiah the prophet.

[00:06:52] Remember that guy? I do. I do. The trader. Yeah. Okay. That the desolation of Jerusalem would last 70 years. Yes. So, I, Daniel turned to the Lord God and pleaded with him in prayer and petition in fasting and in satcloth and ashes. Oh, okay. So he's like, please.

[00:07:16] To make it the 70 years? Don't do 70. Okay. Well here we go. He's going to tell us what he prayed. Got it, yeah. I, Daniel, prayed to the Lord my God and confessed, Lord, the great and awesome God who keeps his covenant of love with those who love him

[00:07:35] and keep his commandments. Yeah. We have sinned and done wrong. Oh my gosh, we're horrible. We're worms. Okay. We have been wicked and have rebelled. We have turned away from your commands and laws. Please, flog us, please. I love getting beat by God.

[00:07:54] We have not listened to your servants, the prophets who spoke in your name to our kings, our princes, and our ancestors, and to all the people of the land. Lord, you're righteous. But this day... I might argue that point. Yeah, I'm going to push back on that guy.

[00:08:11] Yeah, right, right. But this day we are covered with shame. I'm not, but okay. The people of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, both near and far in all the countries where you have scattered us, scattered mother covered because of our unfaithfulness to you.

[00:08:29] That's why bad things happen to us. Well, I mean that's what they... Yeah, because it was always about the worshiping of other idols and all that kind of stuff, which they blame on unfaithfulness. So obviously that means you should all die and get scattered all over the place.

[00:08:44] Yeah, because every bad thing that happens to you, obviously you had it coming. I mean, that's what God seems to think. I mean, that is why children die. They had it coming. Those little fuckers shouldn't have picked their nose or whatever they did. I mean, you know?

[00:08:58] I mean, yeah. You cannot attribute righteousness to a God that allows things that happen in this world to happen. Right. You just can't. Right. It clearly... I mean, I've heard this thing like either God is great or God is good, but he cannot possibly be both.

[00:09:18] And for reasons that I think we've already had this discussion. There's a quote, I can't remember the exact quote off the top of my head, but it's an Epicurean quote because that... Oh, I would have to look it up. But it says exactly basically

[00:09:32] like if God is omniscient, he does this, if he's omnipotent, he does this, and these things cannot... You cannot have... They all contradict what happens in the world. Right. Every single instance either it contradicts the fact that there is a God or that God is a dick

[00:09:50] and allows these things to happen. Right. Exactly. There's no other answer than those things. And that's why he can't be both great and good at the same time. And I want to say that maybe that's not an Epicurean quote exactly. It's attributed to him often in memes, but...

[00:10:07] And I didn't even quote it, but I'm just saying if you look up Epicurean quote with regard to God, you'll probably find what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Regardless, the whole thing is irritating. Yeah, no, definitely. And I apologize for my lack of enthusiasm. A, it's really late

[00:10:24] while we're recording this and I'm super tired because it's been a long day. B, this chapter is kicking my ass. C, this book is kicking my ass. Right. While we're talking about things kicking our ass and tired, I might as well say it now. We suck

[00:10:40] and we didn't get our Patreon chat in the second part done. That's still pending. It's ready. It's just not recorded. No, no, no, no. I know. Technically it was my day off today but I didn't end up with a day off. No, you went to work.

[00:10:51] I went to work today. Yeah. That's the way that goes. That's the way that goes. So, yay. All right, back to this stupid book. Yeah. We, continued Daniel, and our kings, our princes, and our ancestors are covered with shame, Lord. Just, you know, covered in it

[00:11:09] because we have sinned against you. Okay. The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving. Don't forget to forgive us and be merciful. I mean, after he kills a lot of people, he comes back in this sort of merciful, as for a bit. Is that what we call that?

[00:11:24] Okay. It seems that that's the MO. He kills a lot of people and then he's like, and you five can live. But, you know, I mean... But not us five. Yay! How merciful. Right. Even though we have rebelled against him, he's so fucking merciful. I find that,

[00:11:40] that's a strong wording, rebelling against God. Yeah. I don't really think they're rebelling against God. They didn't rebel. They merely didn't give a shit. Right. I think that most of the people who were probably believed in multiple gods. And that's kind of how Judaism started to begin with,

[00:11:57] with the whole El idea and everything. You know, it was based on a multiple God structure. And their remnants of other cultures and other religions that have kind of come to be what is now Judaism and Christianity. But the people back in ancient times

[00:12:15] had no idea what was happening. They're just like, we've always done this, so we're going to continue to do it. Right. Whatever. Yeah, they weren't like actively thumbing their nose. They were actually just getting up in the morning and putting on their pants

[00:12:29] and trying to, you know, live. Right. And God only ever talks to these like, random people and expects you to believe these five random people he's picked. Yeah. You know? It's just so weird and dumb. It really is. Anyway, Daniel continues,

[00:12:43] we have not obeyed the Lord our God or kept the laws he gave us through his servants, the prophets. Okay. We suck so hard. All Israel has transgressed your law and turned away refusing to obey you. You know how we be. Therefore, the curses and sworn judgments

[00:13:02] written in the law of Moses, the servant of God, have been poured out on us because we have sinned against you. This is getting real sick. You have fulfilled the words spoken against us and against our rulers by bringing on us great disaster under the whole heaven.

[00:13:23] Nothing has ever been done like what has been done to Jerusalem. This just feels like a recounting of what was prophesied back during Jeremiah and Ezekiel times. It basically is. Yeah, shit's going to happen. You guys sucked and here we are. And then guess what? That shit happened.

[00:13:40] Right. And now, nothing like this ever happened to anybody else. And I'm like, okay. Yeah, but it did though. Okay, I am not poo-pooing on the Jewish Holocaust. That is a thing that did not happen to other people maybe. You know? Okay.

[00:14:00] No, I'm not being a Holocaust denier. No, I wanted you to clarify. Yeah, you're looking at me like what are you saying? That was just, you need to clarify. So what I'm seeing is right now they're like nobody else has ever been defeated by other people

[00:14:15] and got flogged or whatever. And I'm like, no, but they did though. Every single nation that was there and fighting for dominance, they all got smacked by each other. That's why you all got smothered covered, you know? Scattered. Yeah. So to say that nothing like this

[00:14:33] ever happened is just so like victimization and just like, who are you? Right. And I was saying that I don't deny that the Holocaust happened to them and that that is a tragic thing that came way later. Yes. So they can say nothing like that has ever happened

[00:14:56] to anybody else and we've suffered through the ages and that's fine, right? Jewish people today can say that and I got no beef with them saying that. Right, right. But these people back then, I got beef with them saying that because they were not

[00:15:13] treated any worse than any other nation that got defeated by others. Right, right. I mean, they were all killing each other. Yeah, no, I agree. They were all doing land grabs. They were all like tribal about which God was big. For sure. So I'm sorry.

[00:15:29] I cannot sympathize with this. Right. Well, we could if they didn't act like it was unique to their culture completely. That's what I mean. They're speaking from a very one-sided viewpoint of history and events. Self-centric, you know? Like only us were the middle of the universe.

[00:15:47] Right, and I do get it. I mean in this time, why wouldn't you be very self-centric with regard to your community and your tribe and everything else because there's not a lot of things else out in the world and your world is smaller than our world would be.

[00:16:02] Sure. You know, that's what I mean. They don't have cars. They don't have internet. They don't have telephones. I know that I am judging them through the eyes of today. I recognize that. I unfortunately have eyes of today and do not know how to make them

[00:16:19] not be judgy. Well, I'm just... That's why I'm trying to bring it back a little bit and say that their world was basically their community. It didn't extend much further than that for most people. No, and I think that's why I'm trying to

[00:16:33] bring it back a little bit and say that their world was just the world that was not even much further than that for most people. No, and I get that. I guess I just wish that we could read literature from every other little tribe from back then

[00:16:48] and I bet they would all read the same. Our God is so mean and did so many terrible things to us and we're the only ones that this ever happened to. No, I agree. I agree. And I think that's probably very true. You know, a few religions

[00:17:03] that are more prominent now than others and that's why we don't... We don't really talk about the other ones because most of them are dead religions or very close to dead religions. We have the major religions out there and that's about it. Or they're like harmless

[00:17:20] and so whatever. Yeah. So, alright, I'm sorry. I'm just so annoyed with this book. Okay. The Bible and Daniel. Right. Just continue Daniel as it is written in the law of Moses all this disaster has come on us yet we have not sought

[00:17:37] the favor of the Lord our God by turning from our sins and giving attention to your truth. Okay. The Lord did not hesitate to bring the disaster on us for the Lord our God is righteous and everything he does. He's a righteous man. If I recall correctly

[00:17:55] and I could be I could be misremembering but it seems like either in Ezekiel or Jeremiah God said that he was going to change the hearts of the Israelites when the 70 years was up and then bring them back because mostly because he was concerned about

[00:18:11] what his neighbors thought. Yeah, he was worried about his name. Yeah. He was like, oh, hey. Which makes me think that this whole you know going on and on and on about how they don't worship the right gods and how they're not true to him.

[00:18:24] It's kind of pointless. Like if your God doesn't really give a shit and he's just like the neighbors think we suck so I'm going to fix this. Right. That's not a reason to fix anything. Yeah. Like that's just, that's bull shit. Prideful and sad. Yeah. Narcissistic. Yeah. Whatever.

[00:18:42] We've covered all this before. Right. Okay, so he's righteous and everything he does continued Daniel yet we have not obeyed him. Now Lord our God who brought your people out of Egypt with a mighty hand and who made for yourself a name that endures to this day

[00:18:59] we have sinned and have done wrong. Period. Okay. Lord in keeping with all your righteous acts turn away your anger and your wrath from Jerusalem your city your holy hill our sins and the iniquities of our ancestors have made Jerusalem and your people an object of scorn

[00:19:20] to all those around us. Yeah, that's it. Good, good. Right. Attack them where it hurts. Yeah. God in that makes you look bad. It seems to work. Like giving him that idea that other people think badly of you seems to work with God. Yeah.

[00:19:33] Don't take pity on us for pity's sake. We know how much we deserve to be smacked around and we know how much you love killing us and stuff. Right. But right now people think that you look ugly. Yeah. So can you help us please?

[00:19:50] I do have to say this whole chapter that we're reading seems ill-placed. It doesn't really feel like it fits the whole Daniel narrative. Well, there's a break that we're coming up on and then it gets into the vision which is he has to pray first. Okay.

[00:20:05] And then he has a vision. Got it. Okay. All right. Now our God hear the prayers and petitions of your servant, you know, Daniel. Yeah. For your sake, Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary. Give ear our God and hear. Open your eyes and see the desolation

[00:20:23] of the city that bears your name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous but because of your great mercy. The self-deprecation is just so over the top. Yeah. Lord, listen. Lord, forgive. Lord, hear and act. For your sake, my God, do not delay

[00:20:43] because your city and your people bear your name. Call now. Operators are standing by. I'm sorry. No, it's not. Don't delay and I just put it. That fit really well. Yeah. All right. So now we're going to get into vision land. Okay. All right. Good stuff.

[00:21:02] I hope there's wheels. I hope there's more horns. I see some wheels and horns and horns. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So here we go. This one is called the prophecy of the 70 weeks. The 70 weeks. 70 weeks and there is so much argument over how long that is

[00:21:18] because they use different calendar. Okay. And yeah, anyway. Does it matter? Oh, it does because several quote unquote scalars by which I mean Christian apologists have mathed it so fucking hard that they like just were like ecstatic and probably came in their pants to when they figured out

[00:21:45] that they could math it to where the 70 years started on this day and ended when Christ. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we're going back to the prophecies of 70 years essentially. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Why do we call it or why is it 70 weeks? I don't know. But it does say

[00:22:05] 70 week prophecy. Yeah, it's 70 weeks. That's weird. Yeah. I don't know. There's some shit coming up. There's math coming up. Okay. Yeah. And there's some 70 weeks, but there's some math coming up. And it's just why do you have to do math in the Bible? That's dumb. I don't know.

[00:22:22] All right. I have notes on it. Yeah. That's how I know. I was just like, yeah. All right. While I was speaking and praying, Daniel tells us, confessing my sin and the sin of my people, Israel, thank you for apologizing on my behalf. Right.

[00:22:38] You go ahead and do that, sir. Yeah. And making my request to the Lord, my God for his holy hill still in prayer. Right. My pal, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, you know, last chapter. Right. Yeah. He came to me in Swift Flight.

[00:22:55] So I guess he got wings. I guess so. Sounds like, you know, Daniel has an imaginary friend. That's what it's starting to sound like here. It sounds like he is in tight with Gabriel. Or very delusional about somebody that's named Gabriel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, that dude

[00:23:15] that I had seen in the earlier vision, he came to me in Swift Flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. Okay. He instructed me and said to me, hey, Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. All right. As soon as you began

[00:23:31] to pray, a word went out for which I have come to tell you for you are highly esteemed. Mm hmm. So you prayed so fucking hard that the angels were all, well, the angels at least were all a flutter. Right, right. Our feathers were just quaking.

[00:23:47] That's some hard-ass praying. Right? Yeah. Therefore, comma, says Gabriel. Yeah. Consider the word and understand the vision. Here we go. All right. Seventy-sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression. Seventy-sevens. Okay. How many sevens? Seventy. Right. Okay. To put an end to sin,

[00:24:12] to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy place. Okay. Capital M, capital H, capital P, MHP, most holy place. Oh, okay. All right. So the 70 weeks is sounding like maybe they're saying, God, Gabriel's telling him,

[00:24:35] hey, you guys, 70 weeks to get your shit out of this order, and that's when everything's going to happen. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. I'm not sure. All right. No one understand this. He's going to tell us. Yeah. I mean, it might not be clear, but he's going to tell us.

[00:24:50] Right. From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, you know, because they're allowed to rebuild now. Right. Because Cyrus. Well, is Cyrus, I thought Darius was in charge when we started this chapter. Or was that just last chapter? That was last chapter.

[00:25:04] We're assuming Cyrus is in charge now. I guess. Because I don't think that's been covered specifically. Um, I think we're back to like later now. Yeah. You know what I mean? No, I get that we're later, but you would think that a character like Cyrus who was prominent

[00:25:19] earlier on in prophecies that obviously were written after the fact. But this person was very prominent and now we're not even mentioning the fact that he's there necessarily. That's just, it's odd to me. That's all. Yeah. I don't know. Okay. I've got notes on it.

[00:25:36] We'll read the notes and see if you can make sense of it. Sure. Okay. So no one understand this as Gabriel from the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem from then until the anointed one. You know who that is. Jesus in the Christian sense.

[00:25:54] Yeah. The ruler an anointed one is capital A, capital O. Right. The ruler until he, I'm sorry, until that individual whose gender I don't know, because they are magical comes. Yeah. There will be seven sevens and 62 sevens. Okay. No, not okay. You drink seven and sevens.

[00:26:15] What the fuck is this? Yeah. I do like seven and sevens. Mm hmm. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. After the 62 sevens, the capital anointed capital one will be put to death and will have nothing. Okay. So I mean,

[00:26:37] this is them. I'm assuming this is what people would attribute to the, you know, where Jesus was put up across. Gabriel's totally prophesizing, giving a prophecy. Yeah. Prophecying, professing, he's a, he's for, fortune telling about Jesus. Right. Yes. The people of the ruler who will come,

[00:27:03] will destroy the city and the sanctuary. Womp, womp. Okay. The end will come like a flood. War will continue until the end and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with many for one seven. In the middle of the seven,

[00:27:20] he will put an end to sacrifice an offering. Oh, this is so bad. And at the temple, he will set up an abomination that causes desolation. Well, how do they, how do they refer, how does God, what did Jesus do that did that?

[00:27:36] Until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. The end. You cut me off mid-sentence. No, I did, I did. Because I'm not understanding what's going on here. It's an abomination that causes desolation. The way I'm understanding this is that the sevens are,

[00:27:50] and based on the title of the chapter, I guess these are a week, right? I would think. So we're not talking like long-term way out there type thing. And unless we're starting somewhere way out there, and then once that starts, that's 70 weeks from there.

[00:28:06] I don't know what's going on. Because part of this is returning, part of the prophecy is them returning to the promised land, which happens after the 70 years because there's the return from exile, right? So that bit happens. And if we go from there forward by 70 weeks,

[00:28:21] you're nowhere near modern times. And some of this, you're not even anywhere near Jesus. I don't know. Let's read the notes and see what happens. Okay? So first we got to go back a little bit and re-cover some history. Okay, yeah. So Nebuchadnezzar defeated Assyria at Huron under

[00:28:40] Asher Ubalit, who was unsuccessfully assisted by Niko of Egypt. Okay? Yeah. It was at this event that Josiah lost his life. Remember all this? Kind of, yeah. Jehovah has of Judah replaced him, but Niko of Egypt replaced him with Joachim and exacted three years of servitude and tribute.

[00:29:01] Four years later, Niko returned and lost again at the battle of Karsamesh in 605 BCE and Nebuchadnezzar finally established the Babylonian Empire as dominant. Okay, yeah. Following a revolt in 597 BCE, Nebuchadnezzar deposed Judas King Joachim Mugh and installed Joachim Ne for three months. Sure.

[00:29:27] But his rebelliousness brought Nebuchadnezzar back. Joachim Ne surrendered and this saw the first roundup of captives including Daniel. Right, right. Okay. Nebuchadnezzar finally installed Zedekiah, who lasted 11 years. But remember he was the pump... I said pumpkin king, but I meant he was the puppet king. Yes. Okay.

[00:29:50] And here a second revolt in 586 BCE, Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the city of Jerusalem including the Temple of Solomon carrying away much of the population to Babylon. Yep. Okay, so we're good so far. We're gold. We're Gucci. Sure. As the kids say. Do they say that? They do. Really?

[00:30:09] They use Gucci? Yeah. I thought that was us. I thought we used that a little bit in our generation. I never used that and I never heard it till kids started saying it. Really? Yeah. I don't know what to tell you. Okay, all right.

[00:30:21] Then came the Babylonian exile 586-538 BCE. Sure, okay. Which came to an end when Babylon was conquered by Persian king Cyrus. Right. Who allowed the Jewish exiles to return to Judah. Okay. So we're good. We know all this. The Persian period came to an end

[00:30:44] in the first half of the fourth century BCE at the arrival of Alexander the Great, whose vast kingdom was divided upon his death among rival successors. Okay. So that sucked. Yeah. The series of conflicts that ensued following Alexander's death and the wars that erupted among his successors

[00:31:04] marked the beginning of the Hellenistic period. That's the Greeks. Okay. 323-322-ish BCE. Got it. Okay. So that's where we're at right now. Okay. Two rival kingdoms, Egypt and Syria, fought for control of Palestine during this period. Right, because it was between them, essentially. Yeah, yeah.

[00:31:26] So they were the dominant forces at that time. Got it. So I'm just catching us up. And this was helpful to me. Yeah. At the start of the second century BCE, Syria had the upper hand in their struggle with Egypt for dominance,

[00:31:40] but earlier conflicts had left them nearly bankrupt. The Syrians? Mm-hmm. Okay. Syrian ruler Antiochus attempted to recoup some of his kingdom's fortunes by selling the post of Jewish high priest to the highest bidder. Oh, okay. I did not know that. All right. That's interesting. Right. Yeah.

[00:32:04] In about 171-170 BCE, the existing high priest, Onias, was deposed and murdered. Whoa. Right. Yeah. Palestine was then divided between those who favored the Hellenistic culture of Syria versus those who remained loyal to older Jewish traditions. So religious war, okay. Right. Yeah. For reasons still not understood today,

[00:32:29] Antiochus banned key aspects of traditional Jewish religion, which we kind of read about yesterday. Right. In 168-167-ish BCE, including the twice daily continual offerings. Got it. Remember all that? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, all right, we're going to continue on through the notes here.

[00:32:50] And so we may cover a little bit of stuff that we already covered, but again, this is just to help catch us up. Right. Okay? Yeah. So it has been argued that there is a pre-Mechabean writing style to the revelation that was delivered by Gabriel in verses 24-27.

[00:33:07] Okay. Yeah. And I mean that tracks. Additionally, certain linguistic inconsistencies between the 70 weeks prophecy and other Danielec passages. Yeah. So Daniel passages. Yeah. Suggests that the second century BCE authors and or redactors of the book of Daniel took over and modified a pre-existing oracle

[00:33:33] that was already in circulation at the time of composition. Okay. And again, that tracks. Right. These ideas have been further developed to suggest that the different redactional layers represented in this text reflect different eschatological perspectives. And that means like the way that the words are phrased and stuff.

[00:33:56] Sure. Okay? Yeah. With the earliest one going back to a priest named Daniel who accompanied Ezra from Babylon to Jerusalem in the 5th century BCE. Hmm. And the latest one to an unnamed redactor who edited this prophecy in the 2nd century BCE so that it would function

[00:34:16] along with other parts of the book of Daniel as part of a prophetic manifesto for world domination. Oh wow. Right? Yeah. Boom. Okay. Yeah. And they're like, these are apologists admitting that it's been edited, right? No. Or these scholars. No. These are scholars. Okay. Yeah. All right. No.

[00:34:41] The apologists are like, no, no, no. Daniel wrote it and it's perfect. Got it. Okay. All right. All right. Carrying on with the notes. Persia conquered Babylon in 539 BCE. And Darius was placed in charge of the newly conquered territory. The Jews 70 years captivity in Babylon,

[00:34:57] which Jeremiah had predicted, ha, ha, ha, to their return to their homeland. Okay. So I'm going to read the first verse says, in the first year of Darius, son of Xerxes, a mead by descent who has made ruler over the Babylonian kingdom. Yeah.

[00:35:15] This is the same Darius, the mead from chapter 5. Okay. Who succeeded Belshazzar king of the Chaldeans. Right. Even though we're like, but who is Darius? We don't even know. Sure. Right? Like whatever. So let me just continue scrolling down through to my notes here back to their land.

[00:35:36] Okay. The lengthy prayer in verses three through 19. Yeah. That's the one where he's like, oh God, we suck so hard. Oh God, you're awesome. Except, you know, hit us. Hit me again, bitch. Okay. That lengthy prayer is strongly deuteronomic. Yeah. And it's theology.

[00:35:56] It felt very much like that. Yeah. It's so interesting that we can be like, this feels like deuteronomy. Well, they're certain. I mean, you know, when you're reading it through it, there's a lot of styles that kind of stand out and you know, I can see how

[00:36:10] the people that do linguistic analysis on these books are able to figure out, hey, this was probably written here and this was there. These match this and those match those. Because there are ideas that very much align with this out of the other. Right.

[00:36:25] Now, it would get a little bit difficult. Like we're talking about Daniel right now, right? Yeah. And they're referencing the fact that there are parts in here that are from the deuteronomical. What do you call it? Deuteronomical. Yeah, the deuteronomic whatever. Yeah. That thing.

[00:36:42] And so, but these, but the books were written in like the 200s BCE, right? So obviously this was people studying that and then using those ideas to create a tie-in to earlier books of the Bible because they're trying to create things that match, right?

[00:37:01] They're trying to complete the circle. Yeah. And make sure that any prophecies and loose ends are all tied up, which is funny because then that's what the New Testament does to Daniel. Sure. Yeah. No, definitely. Just like this continuous loop-de-loop. Yeah.

[00:37:19] That lengthy prayer is strongly deuteronomic in its theology. Daniel's people are punished for their own sin and appealed to God for mercy. Right. However, such theological overtones conflict with other aspects of the book of Daniel in which the primary sin is

[00:37:37] that of a Gentile king and the course of history is arranged in advance. Hmm. Okay. All right. So like his prayer is weird because it's like you guys have already predicted this. It's already coming. Yeah, and it's even contrary.

[00:37:52] Like there was the whole idea of being forgiven for sin in his ego that came up. So I just got done with that book. Yeah. So it contradicts quite a bit with regard to how it's going back to some earlier ideas. Exactly.

[00:38:05] Consequently, some scholars have argued that the angel ignores Daniel's prayer and that the author is making the point that quote, the calamity is decreed and will end at the appointed time quite apart from the prayers and that the prayer is not intended to influence

[00:38:23] God but is just merely an act of piety in and of itself. Okay. So I mean, that would be my best explanation of how we're trying to explain in the way because that's the only thing that really jives with the rest of the shit that we've read.

[00:38:39] You know, they, it doesn't, they've said that God is going to bring them back not for any reason that they do but just because he's sick of being, you know, chastised and then looked down on. Right. So. Exactly. All right. And now we get into some maths. Okay.

[00:38:56] Oh boy. Yeah. Yeah. Possibly no other portion of the Bible has produced as many interpretations as Daniel's 70 weeks. I bet. This is for two main reasons. First, it's not clear who or what many of the symbols or statements refer to when they were doing the translation. Sure. Yeah.

[00:39:17] Second, if a week equals seven years, the timetable of 490 years does not correspond exactly with the historical record of events, no matter what meaning we give to the symbols or what method of chronological reckoning we use. Right. So they were using actual weeks as weeks.

[00:39:35] They were seven sevens is seven years. Okay. All right. But I mean, like you said, like that's 490 years and it doesn't work. Right. The following interpretation, which is only one among many possible explanations does not attempt to draw up a timetable based on 70 lots of seven years.

[00:40:00] Rather, it understands the 70 weeks as symbolic of the era about to dawn in answer to Daniel's prayer. So. Okay. Rather than being specific, they're like we're we are just trying to tell you the story. We're not trying to do the math here.

[00:40:19] So we're just doing a very general like here's the basic story. But I have to say if I if I'm an apologist, this is not an apologist. No, no, no, I get it. I get it. But if I am an apologist, right?

[00:40:32] I would want to take this section and make it work in like, I would want it to flow. Oh, I told you there are some who have made it work. Okay. And their mouth tracks, their mouth tracks as long

[00:40:46] as they line it up exactly and they pick the start and stop dates and some of the meanings of the words. Yes. Because obviously it's just a dream, right? Interpret it however. Sure. But they can make it flow and make it sound perfect. All right.

[00:41:01] And so for them, it works. All right. I mean, I don't know how do you work, but how do you argue it? Right. That's part of the problem. We can't, we can't argue with someone that it believes in the Bible

[00:41:12] or God because they already believe in something that we know not to be proven to exist. Yeah. So you're already starting off on a false premise. Right. You know? They're using the word that they're looking up in the dictionary in the definition. Right. It's the same thing. Yeah.

[00:41:30] All right. So rather blah, blah, blah is symbolic. Okay. The three divisions within the 70 weeks are therefore seen as symbolic of three phases within that era. Okay. All right. Yeah. So with the Jews returned to their homeland, the old era of

[00:41:47] 70 years, captivity and Babylon would end, and a new era of 70 weeks in Jerusalem would begin. Okay. Yeah. And again, weeks is in quotes because it's not actual weeks. Right. Okay. During this period, God would bring his age-long purposes to fulfillment.

[00:42:05] He would deal with sin finally and completely, and in its place would establish everlasting righteousness. Well, that didn't work out. No. No. Through the arrival of the promised Messiah, God would set his seal of absolute authority upon the visions

[00:42:22] of the prophets for their predictions had now come true. As for the Messiah himself, he would be exalted to his rightful place in the holy presence of God. Okay. So you can just see how the Christians got where they were going. Right. It's so gross. Yeah.

[00:42:41] So at the time of Gabriel's revelation to Daniel, Persia had just taken control of the Jewish exiles in Babylon, and the Persian king was about to issue a decree allowing the Jews to return to Jerusalem to rebuild their city and temple.

[00:42:56] And that was in chapter one of Ezra. Got it. It was, remember when Cyrus like gave his famous decree of his writ of something? I forget what it was called. Sure. But he was like, I love letting people go back to their lands, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:16] Okay. Gabriel's message was that the first period, seven weeks, would see the city and the temple largely rebuilt, but the next several hundred years, 62 weeks would be a time of constant trouble for Israel. Okay. So, okay, okay. I'm struggling with, no, no, the timeframe is just not, like,

[00:43:35] this is weird. It's not. Yeah. Just take it in and don't try to make it make sense. Okay. All right. So here's what happens after the first 69 weeks, which I don't know what that number means, just like whatever. Right. Okay.

[00:43:50] Following this time of trouble that I was just talking about, God's anointed one, the Messiah would come in the 70th week, but his people would reject him and kill him. Oh, geez. How did that happen? Yeah, I don't know. I don't think it did. Well, no, it did.

[00:44:06] Oh, well, you put it in his people. Yeah. Those aren't his people. The Romans killed him. Yeah. But, you know, whatever. I mean, not whatever. We're talking about Jesus. We're talking about, you know, this religion that is really dominant in our country.

[00:44:22] And this is why I don't ever want to say whatever, because it's important when they get it wrong, especially when it comes to Jesus or God that we point it out. Keep in mind, these people were not talking about Jesus specifically. I know.

[00:44:38] But that's why it's important to point out, hey, you, you Christian, you're going to say that this is Jesus. I know you are because that's how this, this whole thing rolls, you know, That's how this all gets put together in your head. Yeah.

[00:44:52] So if that's the case, this doesn't work. Right. This is what happened wrong. Yeah. And it's like I said, I think it's very important to call out these inconsistencies over and over and over again, because when you build them all up, like if

[00:45:09] somebody were to listen to our podcast and take all the times that we've sat here and said, that doesn't work, that would be a lot of shit. That would be a lot of things. That would be a lengthy blooper reel that someone

[00:45:22] would have to consider before they could get past whether or not they believe in God, right? Yeah. And I kind of wish we had someone tracking when we said those things so we could like keep a log of

[00:45:34] just like in a list form or something of all these things where we're like that does not track. Nope. So. Okay. So after this an enemy army would pour into Jerusalem like a flood destroying both city and temple and this predicted calamity occurred

[00:45:49] when the Roman armies under Titus destroyed Jerusalem in AD 70. Okay. Okay. Yeah. The Messiah would bring in a new covenant in the middle of the 70th week, he would be killed and the Jewish sacrifices would cease forever. But in killing the Messiah, the Jews were

[00:46:09] preparing for their own punishment. They were going to bring upon themselves the awful horror and desolating abomination of ruthless Roman attack. They as well as their city and temple would be destroyed. The Romans would be so I said, Ruman you did. I know. Okay.

[00:46:27] Let me say that again. The Romans would be so savage in their attack that they too would be punished. Okay. And then I copied this quote and I don't know who to attribute it to because there was no attribution but I just thought you you fucking arrogant fuck.

[00:46:43] Yeah. Here's the quote. How awfully blind are no, let me read that again. How awfully are the Jews blinded who in contradiction to so clear a prophecy still expect the Messiah who was cut off and after suffering is entered into his glory. Hmm.

[00:47:06] How can those people be so blind? Yeah. Jesus already came. Why are they waiting for a Messiah to come? He was already here my friends. I'm just like fuck off. Right. The religion came first. Yours is stupider than theirs. Yeah. You know yours is based on theirs.

[00:47:25] That's so dumb. Well, I mean not only theirs but you know all the ones before Islam is too. So yeah, like Islam is based off of Judaism and yeah, like you said just now Judaism is based off of older religions still.

[00:47:39] So it all comes to whatever it's just all a mess and I don't really know what else to say because that was really fucking I told you it was painful wasn't it? I'm going to be perfectly honest with you. I am tired as fuck.

[00:47:53] I know you're sitting here with your eyes shut and I hate it. Yeah. Well, I was trying to do that so I could just concentrate on your words and respond and doing so I got even more tired but I'm like okay okay.

[00:48:05] I told you this shit was hard. It was. I just shoved everything across the table. I'm surprised it cup didn't fall over and like spill all over the damn place. I've done that before. Yeah, yeah. Just a couple of times. Well. Alright well do you have anything

[00:48:23] else for us? I don't want anything else for us. Okay alright so that was Daniel chapter nine. Sure as fuck was. And we will be back tomorrow with Daniel chapter ten. That's the one. It comes after nine. Yeah, that's the way that works.

[00:48:39] And we'll also get a Q&A out. And then we might finish our Patreon eventually. No, we're going to. It's ready to go. It just needs to be recorded. I'm aware of that. I was just saying we still have to we haven't recorded it though and

[00:48:51] we were late so I'm saying we might get it eventually. That's all I'm saying. But we will get it eventually. Yeah. It's just a matter of when. Right but we will get it. I got it. Don't say might. No, we will. Yeah, you're right.

[00:49:06] Yeah, I know I'm right. Okay. So we're going to go now and that was that and we'll see you for Daniel chapter ten. Have a horn. Bye. Bye.