Ezekiel Chapters 26 - 30 Q&A: Bible Study by Atheists

[00:00:00] Welcome to Sacrilegious Discourse. For this is what the sovereign Lord says. Why do you need prophets to tell people who you are and what you want? If you can justify everything that the God of the Bible

[00:00:11] has done, then you can justify any of your behavior. A lot of this mentality is trickling into what is now mainstream right wing Christianity. I am capable of empathy greater than this God

[00:00:25] of the Bible. This is a Bible that they tell kids this is the good Lord this is the good book this is he is fantasizing about murder, mass murder. And over to Sacrilegious Discourse.com right now

[00:00:40] I got a Halloween a sort of you or some Buddhist on H.G.A. Wife do you know what we're doing today? Well today is Saturday which means that we're doing our Q&A Saturday. That's right and what are

[00:01:00] we Q&A today? We're covering a Zegiel chapter 26 through 30 and that set of chapters started with some prophesying against the city of Tire. So I thought we would talk a little bit about that city.

[00:01:19] Okay and I think that you're just if correct me if I'm wrong but I think your information was a little bit of an overload this week with regard to things that we need to delve into. So I think

[00:01:33] and again correct me if I'm wrong but I think that next week we're probably going to get into a little bit of the Egypt site of this as well. And hopefully we won't continue to overload ourselves

[00:01:44] as we keep going along here. But we will get to Egypt. So bear with us but right now it's all about Tire. Before we get into today's episode I want to mention to everybody one way you guys can

[00:01:56] help us out while there's two ways. Patreon obviously there's a link on our website head over there help us get to our goal but the other way doesn't require any extra money for you to spend.

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[00:02:17] help us out that way and then that gets us to our Q&A for today are you ready wife? I am. All right let's do this. Okay okay. All right so we are doing a Q&A over easy Kyle. CQ. Chapter's 26 to 30 but I started looking at my

[00:02:44] notes with chapter 26 and I kind of just stopped there because I was like hang on hang on hang on. Yeah. Let me learn more about this fucking city Tire. Okay okay. I mean it was described very

[00:02:56] intricately and there was a lot to what that city was about as far as trade hub and everything like that. Yeah so I thought that would be a fun place to start because that is where we started.

[00:03:08] Yeah. The prophecy begins in chapter 26 and then ends in chapter 28 and it's a declaration of the judgments of God against Tire by Ezekiel and Tire was a very famous Phoenician commercial city on the Mediterranean coast north of Israel in modern day Lebanon so it does still exist today.

[00:03:30] Okay. That's kind of why I was like wait hang on hang on. Right. Because wasn't it supposed to not? I mean there's a question. What they mean by completely destroy is very debatable in the Bible.

[00:03:41] Yeah I was going to get to that like we've got some apologists coming ahead. Oh yeah I'm sure. It was a major sea port which we covered during the week and it was taken by Nebuchadnezzar after an

[00:03:53] arduous siege of 13 years and wow a 13 year siege. Yeah. Wow. Yeah so um and there's there's a reason for that which I'll get into the geography in a bit. It's just funny how that got glossed over in the Bible

[00:04:05] because you know they want to make God seem very powerful. So God so then take 13 years obviously you know you guys just took Tire. Came in and did it but so Tire is currently a city in Lebanon

[00:04:18] one of the oldest continuing continuously inhabited cities in the world. Okay. Though in medieval times for some centuries it was occupied by just a very small population. Probably after the medieval times I'm saying yeah okay okay okay. So I got you. Yeah it's past through

[00:04:37] many hands and it has you know kind of coming gone over the years which apologies love to point to. Right yeah um the city became a prominent Phoenician city state between the ninth and six centuries BCE okay. Thank you. And it was one of the earliest Phoenician metropolises

[00:04:57] and the legendary birthplace of Europa and I'm like what's Europa again now besides like isn't that a moon of one of the right right I don't know. I don't even remember which planet it's a moon.

[00:05:11] Yeah we have almost hefty Jupiter or something right. I honestly I don't remember well you know we name our planets and stuff in their moons after Greek mythological creature Greek and Roman gods. Sure. In Greek mythology Europa was a Phoenician princess from Tire and the mother of King

[00:05:29] Minos of Crete. One Greek myth discusses her abduction by Zeus in the form of a bull okay. I don't know if you were call hearing that story ever um kind of a little rusty on my my Greek in Roman mythology.

[00:05:43] Well he's a bull and he kidnapped some rapes or as a bull. Got it got it. Because we love us some sex with animals. Europa's earliest literary references in the Iliad. Okay so there's that and it is

[00:05:59] that story is commonly dated to the eight century BCE and the continent of Europe is named after her. Got it. As is that one moon thing. Yeah which is also the it is one of Jupiter's moons. It's the

[00:06:13] fourth largest fourth largest moon of Jupiter and six largest moon in our solar system. It's the smoothest object in our solar system as well. There's a little bit of science for you. Greek mythology and science. We love it. I honestly love that we name our Heavenly bodies

[00:06:31] after Greek and Roman gods and goddesses. Yeah it would be so boring if it was after like Jewish and Christian things. Right I'm really like no, I don't know what that's uh as the moon

[00:06:42] Samuel. There goes Jesus shouldn't across the sky again. Interesting. Right. So the city of Tire has many ancient sites including the Tire hippodrome. Okay it has been noted that one can

[00:06:58] call Tire a city of ruins built out of ruins. It kind of it has been destroyed multiple times. Yeah but never completely. Never has it been unpopulated. Got it. So there's that. Yeah. Today Tire is the

[00:07:16] fourth largest city in Lebanon after Bay Route, Tripoli and sit-on. Okay. Yeah. There were approximately 200,000 inhabitants in the Tire urban area in 2016. Okay. So not a lot comparatively speaking but. It's actually big city. Right. Right. This includes many refugees as the city hosts three of

[00:07:39] the 12 Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon. Oh, okay. And this information was not up to date with what's happening. Oh, okay. It may be more and more. Yeah I didn't really want to get into that.

[00:07:54] That would be another rabbit hole. Yeah so I hear you. And honestly I don't know that that would help with what we're trying to learn about today. Sure. So Tire originally consisted of two distinct

[00:08:06] urban centers which we kind of knew from having talked about it before. It was on an island and then also on the land proper. Got it. Okay. And that geography is part of why it took 13 years. Oh. Yeah.

[00:08:21] This is so cool. Okay. Tire itself which was on an island just 500 to 700 meters offshore and the associated settlement of Ushu on the adjacent mainland. Later called Paley Tyros, meaning old Tire in ancient Greek. Okay. Okay. So the fortified city was on top of a rock and it

[00:08:43] had two ports. The Sidonium port to the north still partly existing today and the Egyptian port to the south which a lot of excavations in the water. What are those called like water searches?

[00:08:56] What are they? What are those called? Like where people go and they go under the water to like look for pictures. Next edition. Yeah. I think that's what I would call it. I think just real quick though

[00:09:10] you would you refer to them they had built like the city sits on a rock you said. So it's interesting because when we were reading through and God was talking about the strorine Tire. He was talking

[00:09:20] about smoothing or clearing the rocks or something like that which is an interesting but so it was truly referencing the physicality of the city exactly that is cool. That is and it gets cooler. Yeah. Okay. So yeah some recent expeditions like I'm talking within the last decade

[00:09:37] have found some ruins in the water that we think might be the Egyptian side port. Oh wow. Yeah. There is at the very least evidence that it is some kind of mass that was built containing

[00:09:54] those kind of structures. So it's very probable but it has not been identified fully 100%. But we're pretty sure that's it though, which is just so cool to me. Yeah. Like how fucking old is that right? Right. And then it also makes me start thinking about you know the

[00:10:10] loss city of Atlantis and you know that kind of thing and how you know it probably fell into the water if it existed and that kind of thing. So okay sorry that's totally unrelated. All right so

[00:10:24] blah blah blah on a rock and still exists. Yeah. Part of it. Okay so throughout history from prehistoric times onwards all settlements in the entire area profited from the abundance of fresh water supplies especially from several nearby springs both north and south of the area. Okay. So

[00:10:45] it was both open to the world and self contained at once. Sure. So it was like the perfect location for what it was doing. Right. You know? It's just kind of amazing. Right. The

[00:10:59] present city of tire covers a large part of the original island and has expanded onto and covers most of the causeway which I will talk about later built by Alexander the Great and 332 BCE.

[00:11:13] Okay. Okay. Yeah. This causeway just melted my brain just so no. Okay. So there's an isnus that was created that increased greatly in width over the centuries because of extensive silt deposits on either side. Okay. And the part of the original island not covered by the modern

[00:11:33] city of tire is mostly of an archeological site showcasing remains of the city from ancient times. Okay. So there have been attempts over the years to try to maintain the historicity to showcase it and to I think current day they're trying to maybe turn it into

[00:11:56] a tourist site so that they can get more funding to make it even more historically accurate. Got it. So very cool stuff. Yeah. Though it has suffered a number of devastating earthquakes over

[00:12:09] the millennia, the threat level is considered to be low in most places and moderate in a few others. And the reason I mention that is because it's on a fault. Oh yeah. So that's why that is kind of

[00:12:23] important. A tsunami following an earthquake and subsequent landslides and floods do pose major natural risks to the tyrian population. Okay. So the earthquake itself wouldn't be the problem necessarily but if that fault moves and there is a quake big enough all the other stuff that comes

[00:12:44] with it would devastate that area. Got it. Got it. That's reserves of natural gas are estimated to lie beneath Lebanese waters much of it off tires coasts. Okay. But exploitation of that has been

[00:13:00] delayed by border disputes with. Yeah sure. I make sense. Yeah. Bring it around, right? Right. Early names of tire include the acadians' Sioux Rue, the Phoenician Sour and the Hebrew Sour.

[00:13:16] And what those names all have in common besides kind of sounding the same they come from the same route which means rock. Okay. So that's kind of cool. Yeah. Insemitic languages as I said the name of the

[00:13:28] city means rock after the rocky formation on which the town was originally built. Okay. It went under Persian rule in 572 BCE before being conquered by Alexander the Great in 332 BCE. So when

[00:13:43] he said when God said that it would be conquered by many nations would come against it. Right. That actually is a thing that came to pass. Sure. So. But again, you know and we talk about this when we've

[00:13:55] been reading through these prophecies is that these things that were happening aren't happening in a void. Right. They're happening. They're being telegraphed. Like these armies that are conquering it took them 12 11 to 12 years or whatever to conquer 13 to conquer tire. And they've

[00:14:14] run into many like even Jerusalem took many years to fully conquer. So I mean yeah, I'm just pointing out that this was written at one point probably not by Zikil but still well before it probably

[00:14:29] was not written before Babylon took over. Nibbe Kineser. Right. I mean we don't really believe in that stuff so pretty sure it was written after that. Yeah. But then we get into Persian rule in 572 and

[00:14:42] then a couple hundred years later Alexander the Great in 332 BCE. So I'm just saying that's interesting. It has past hands. Nations did come against it. Right. Right. And at one point one of the prophecies

[00:14:57] also and please do not take my enthusiasm to mean that I believe in these prophecies. I just think it's fun the way I think a fucking tarot card reading is fun even though I don't believe

[00:15:09] it. That's what I was saying though is that like these people that were conquering these nations and these cities and everything they're telegraphing their movements. These people even if they did say that these things were going to happen before they happened somebody was able to say look

[00:15:22] they're going to be here any day and they're going to start trying to attack these people and those people this is all going to go down. Yeah. And it's not hard to see that look there's like

[00:15:31] three or four different warring nations like heading to this area. Some fucked up shit's going to go down. Yeah. You know? It's not good time. Right. Yeah. I don't think that that's real hard to

[00:15:41] fucking telegraph. It's just it's you're right. Right there in front of you. You are totally right. Again I'm just putting at there as an enthusiastic just that's cool. There is some validity to some of the claims whether or not they're written whether or not what doesn't

[00:15:57] matter when they're written they're still a valid statement. Yes and that I think that's what I mean to say is I can see why a believer would read this and be like oh wow that's magic that happened

[00:16:11] and you know I couldn't really besides saying yeah magic doesn't exist that silly. Like besides that I can't really argue with them because well yeah stuff did kind of happen but right. But you can argue other points like they also prophecy the destruction and scattering

[00:16:29] of Egypt for 40 years which didn't ever happen. Right. And we'll we get into that next week. But I mean there are definitely things that are right and some things are wrong and you know

[00:16:39] I just I feel like it's all a matter of who decided to put what into the fucking book. Oh yeah and it is what it is you know so. So let's talk about that cause way. Okay. Okay. So the

[00:16:49] development of tire was profoundly affected by the construction of a cause way built by Alexander the Great in 332 BCE to seize the city. Okay. So here's what was happening on the island itself

[00:17:03] right it's still unrock. Sure. Yeah. And then the city on the land was actually kind of soft ground like a lot of silt and stuff. Okay. So it was people approaching it either part of it had a lot

[00:17:19] of trouble reaching it. Sure. So Alexander the Great was like fuck this shit like he kept trying to take them and could not get there. He just could not get there. Yeah. So instead of like making

[00:17:31] better boots or whatever he was like okay I'm just gonna basically get some rocks from home deep or whatever and I'm gonna build myself a motherfucking street. Right. And that's what he did.

[00:17:45] Yeah. I'm looking at it right now in a map it's actually kind of cool. Yeah. So he basically attacked this place by laying ahead of himself strong ground that would hold him in his army. Right.

[00:17:59] And that that is just amazing and so he was able to walk right in and take it. I mean that's really smart. Yeah. It's really smart. So I mean Alexander the Great wasn't called great for nothing.

[00:18:10] Okay. I'm just saying he had a lot going from this right. Yeah. So the Syriac and a Cadian languages left a linguistic mark on the Arabic spoken in the region of Tire at that time.

[00:18:26] Okay. Most notably with the widely used term Bolly. Okay. Where do we know that? Turn from kind of a master god whatever like right which originates from the Bolly religion. Right. Today the term is used to describe vegetables and fruits from rain fed,

[00:18:44] untreated agricultural production. Okay. So you're a fucking fruit cake Bolly. So it's just interesting that that word although it means something totally different now. It did survive through the ages. Even though we were supposed to like forget that. Right. Not only did

[00:19:05] we not forget it was written down in the fucking Bible and the word itself became stupid and meaningless and as a god damn fruit. Right. You know? Yeah. So that's funny to me. Yeah. The Tirean

[00:19:18] municipality of Aenbaol is also apparently named after the Phoenician deity. So okay. It stuck around. Sure. But all. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So then I have a note called Bible stuff. Okay. And

[00:19:32] up about Tire like history and geography. Let's talk about some Bible stuff. Sure. Okay. So according to Joshua chapter 19, the forwardified city of Tire was allotted to the tribe of Ashar.

[00:19:46] And I'm glad to have read that because I don't recall that at all. I don't even remember that tribe honestly. Asha? Yeah. Was that one? They feel like they must have disappeared early because I don't

[00:19:55] hardly remember them. Yeah. The reason the only reason I remember it is because we knew a kid who's older brother was named Ashar. And so that like stuck in my head. Sure. But yeah, that was one of

[00:20:08] the tribes and they were the ones who had Tire. Okay. King Hyrum, the first of Tire allied himself with David and Solomon in second Samuel, first Kings and first Chronicles. Okay. And King Hyrum

[00:20:22] provided architects, workmen, Cedarwood and gold to build the royal palace in Jerusalem as well as the temple. Okay. And I kind of remember that from like the the non-Tire side of the story. Yeah.

[00:20:35] Yeah. For sure. So that that's cool. Yeah. Tire is mentioned in the book of Isaiah as being forgotten for 70 years when her quote fortress is destroyed and after which quote her profit and her

[00:20:47] prostitutes wages will be sacred to the Lord. Okay. And I kind of vaguely remember that actually. But although her fortress was destroyed, she did not get forgotten for 70 years. So. Got it. Right. Yeah. Oh. Another thing that they say that was one of the prophecies was that

[00:21:06] it would only be known as a place to lay your fish nets and for a few centuries, it was nothing but a little fishing village. Got it. Okay. And that's like into the A. D's. Okay. So. All right.

[00:21:21] Well, I did it did come down and in stature quite a bit. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I'll just go ahead and get into that a little bit now. Apologize say yeah, the prophecy said it would never be rebuilt.

[00:21:34] And I'm going to totally re-guides mind and tell you what he meant by that was rebuilt to its previous glory like as in a huge hub and a fishing port and blah, blah, blah, with the security and the

[00:21:51] money and all of all of the fame and the wealth that had that that's what he meant. I know this because I too speak to God maybe kind of never. And like but why do you think you know that? Like like

[00:22:06] they just see us of actually like what he meant was and I'm like why do you think you know that? Yeah. Like what authority has been granted you that you think you know that? Yeah, I think the answer to that is

[00:22:17] that the authority that's been granted to them is that God is real in their mind and so that must be what he meant. And so there has to be a reason why this city still exists and has 200,000 people on it.

[00:22:29] And it's that this is they can't mean that it wouldn't be rebuilt. It wouldn't be rebuilt to this extent. Right. Right. And even this extent is arbitrary based on whatever right aside that means.

[00:22:41] Right. Until it matches up I will continue to move the goalposts to make it match. Yeah. I have to pay just together. That's almost anybody who is trying to defend their religion to somebody who doesn't believe in it that's almost the entirety of their argument

[00:22:57] isn't it? I'm going to defend this to the end the degree and there will be a reason to admit to you know whatever to explain everything. And there is an explanation for literally everything because there has to be. Right. And I will create one if there isn't one.

[00:23:10] And I will say it with authority. Yeah. And act like what? That's just the facts. Yep. And that that's the part that kills me though is that they just give themselves the authority.

[00:23:22] And then they're like, what? Of course it's this way. Did you know? Right. Like no because I actually reading these words for the first time ever and I'm like that doesn't match. Right. Yeah. It doesn't it doesn't match. I'm sorry. Right. Because it has been rebuilt. It has.

[00:23:39] Not to its former glory you are right but that is not what it was supposed to be. That's the people even there. I mean like what would you consider a former glory? I mean it has electric now

[00:23:47] probably. It has you know like there's so many greater things that it has now that it didn't have then. Right. So who's to decide what is the greater glory? Right. I'm not I'm not one to judge

[00:23:59] you know what that distinguishing marker is. But I would say there are some people who, you know if they lived in those ancient times in that city and then came here they'd be in

[00:24:08] on wonder as to what it is. That's true. That is true. You are 100% right. But I also saw some apologists that were like part of why the city was so despised by the Lord was because they

[00:24:22] sold humans there proudly and you know, so God had to destroy them for doing slavery. And I'm like okay hold on. God can don't slavery. I'm like look do not make me defend slavery

[00:24:37] because that is despicable. Yeah. I agree with you that God should have wanted to destroy this city because it proudly engaged in the selling of slaves. But even in that chapter that wasn't

[00:24:51] the reason. That was not the reason though. Right. It should have been. Should have been. And I am glad that you agree that slavery is wrong. Right. I wish you would tell the rest of your white

[00:25:03] right wing brethren because I think they want to bring that Shabbat. Right. But no that's not what happened. Right. Okay. So Tyre is also mentioned in the book of Ezekiel of course which is why we're

[00:25:15] covering this which prophecy it's permanent destruction and that was in chapter 26 versus three through 14. Sure. The main settlements were destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar but after 13 years siege from 586 to 573 BCE the King of Tyre made peace with Nebuchadnezzar going into exile

[00:25:40] and leaving this island city itself intact. Yeah. So interesting. That is not how it was described either. That was never mentioned and from what I understood from the prophecy was that it was going to be

[00:25:54] smashed. Smash. Oh, we're not. You know completely wiped off. Yeah. But no he just he made a kind of deal. Basically what happened is after 13 years Tyre was worn down. And after that long

[00:26:06] he was like, look I'll go into exile you take this shit but leave the island alone they shook hands on it right. That's what happened. That is different from Nebuchadnezzar came in and with his strength

[00:26:19] knocked the whole thing down. No it was with a handshake bitches. Yeah well this this is part of what I was like God likes to flex saying he's using this Nebuchadnezzar guy as his sword sort of

[00:26:32] the Lord right and he's going to use him to the utterly destroys enemies and show his power and everything but it doesn't work out that way. Right. He's not utterly destroying these people.

[00:26:44] Nebuchadnezzar is definitely a powerful person who has taken over quite a bit of land in the Middle East at this point. Yeah I don't dispute that at all like he definitely conquered some shit.

[00:26:54] Right but the way that they're describing it in the Bible is that they are completely wiped away in it from history. It's all wrong. Yeah and if he was truly a God

[00:27:07] he could do one or two things. Do that himself or make sure that his tool did it for him. Right. Did the whole job? Yeah and neither of those things happened. Right. And you would think

[00:27:18] that if his tool couldn't finish the job that God would have just been like snap in his fingers and be like y'all done. Or what are that or brought in like a second, third and fourth tool? I

[00:27:27] know. Just to complete the fucking product like you can't God tells people early on in the Bible to kill people for sharing a false prophecy in the Bible. In my opinion there are false prophecies

[00:27:40] in the fucking Bible. Yeah totally and this is one of them I think. Right. My opinion. Yeah. So Alev Alexander the Great used debris from the mainland to build a causeway to the island

[00:27:51] which is kind of what we talk about entered the city and plundered it, second it without mercy. So Nebuchadnezzar did not but Alexander the Great did. And some people I'm sure Apologist point to that as well but that can't even be right either because the Bible specifically

[00:28:10] points out Nebuchadnezzar as the person who's going to do this. Although it does say that the city will come under many nations. Sure. Okay. You know there's always something you know. Yeah.

[00:28:22] Most of the residents at that point when Alexander the Great came in were either killed in the battle or sold in slavery. Got it. Which is kind of ironic since that's what they're big.

[00:28:32] They were doing yeah, you know, trade was. It was quickly repopulated by colonists and escape citizens and later regained its independence. Oh. Tire did eventually enter a period of decline being reduced to a small remnant. Got it. Which I really appreciated using that word. And my notes

[00:28:53] was it a remnant? Yeah. Because God said there wouldn't be a remnant. Right. Right. But there was there was a remnant. There was a remnant. Yeah. Yeah. However the nearby area grew rapidly in the 20th

[00:29:03] century. So you know, we're up to modern days. Yeah. The ruins of a part of ancient Tire. Tire has been declared a protected site historically. Sure. UNESCO. What is that like they're the world sure I think I knew what's shocking about. The world this is a historical site.

[00:29:21] Yeah. I don't know what they are, but there I think they're a European organization maybe. That probably sounds right. I'm actually looking up right now. It's the United Nations Educational Scientific and Culture Organization. Okay. And it is the world heritage site.

[00:29:38] Got it. Okay. So that tracks. Yeah. So they're like your little local historical society, but for Earth. Right. Right. Which is cute. I like that. Yeah. So they declared it a protected site.

[00:29:50] So that is cool. Like it's going to be preserved and that that is awesome. Yeah. And it can still be seen on the sub the ruins of part of ancient Tire. Can still be seen on the southern half of the island.

[00:30:03] Yeah. Whereas modern Tire occupies the northern half and also sprawls across Alexander's causeway and on into the mainland. Sure. So okay. That is my brief diddy on fire. All right. That was an

[00:30:20] interesting history lesson lesson. I thought so. I as soon as it said Tire like Tire still exists. Like I was like pulled on. I can't go any further. Yeah. No, I mean that was kind of my whole hang up

[00:30:31] with the Egypt too. Yeah. So I mean there's a little bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of an I know. I know. I feel like Egypt might be even more of a conundrum for the Bible.

[00:30:41] More so than even Tire. Yeah. Because Tire eventually did fall to Alexander the Great. And like there was some you know, you can be more apologetic for some of the things that happened

[00:30:51] to Tire. It definitely apologists can make a case. Right. I'm not saying I agree with their case, but a case can be made. Sure. So it is what it is. You know, I mean you and I from our perspective

[00:31:03] don't believe any of the bullshit that the Bible is pitched into us. You know, like it is completely and there's no there's no backing to any of it. Right. It's all politics. And it is based on

[00:31:15] some actual events that have happened. But how those things are inserted into the Bible is a very God centric and very nationalistic sense. You know, it's very centered around this Israelite tribe and how they perceive the world at that time. Yeah. So it's not very fair to actual

[00:31:34] history with regard to what happened. Right. So anyway, thank you for doing all the research on Tire there. That was amazing. Cool. Thank you for writing that. Yeah. And that being said,

[00:31:46] so we will be back tomorrow. Not sure what we're going over, but it's Sunday. So we'll be doing our Patreon. And then I will get our weekly wrap up out and we'll be back on Monday with

[00:31:59] a Zikil chapter 31 question mark. That sound yes. That is correct. So we'll see you guys then. Bye. Hey wife, I guess that's the end. But husband, that's just sad. It doesn't have to be. We are

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