Daniel Chapter 12: Bible Study by Atheists

[00:00:00] Welcome to Sacrilegious Discourse. For this is what the Sovereign Lord says. Why do you need prophets to tell people who you are and what you want? If you can justify everything that the God of the Bible has done, then you can justify any of your behavior. A lot of this mentality is trickling into what is now mainstream right wing Christianity. I am capable of empathy greater than this God of the Bible. This is a Bible that they tell kids. This is a Bible that they tell kids. This is a Bible that they tell kids.

[00:00:29] is the good lord this is the good book this is he is fantasizing about murder mass murder

[00:00:36] head over to sacrilegiousdiscourse.com right now to find out how to leave us a review or support us

[00:00:42] on patreon do you know where the hell we are today well yesterday we covered uh daniel chapter

[00:00:54] 11 sure as fuck did and in that chapter daniel had a vision did he he did and how and it was uh it was a

[00:01:06] bit north and it was a bit south and it was a bit all over the fucking place with regard to future

[00:01:12] wars and conquerors and leaders and tie a kiss and he's and they's and i don't even know what the

[00:01:20] fuck they were talking about if we're to take it at the word of just the bible now we did some

[00:01:25] research and found out that it was other things which antiochus yes was one of those things i'm

[00:01:29] gonna go with that one at least if we're to take you know scholars point of view on this this aspect

[00:01:34] or or what have you now there might even be other interpretations that we are leaving out because

[00:01:40] who the fuck knows what we're talking about really i do not know what the right i don't either it was

[00:01:46] a mess that's what it was really was yeah um so much like the rest of daniel this felt very forced

[00:01:56] and very much like they had to cover certain things to promote what this guy daniel who was already

[00:02:05] what we have regarded him as a fictional character right um was able to prophecy through people that

[00:02:13] wrote this 400 years later that already saw this stuff happen right is that is that about the gist

[00:02:18] of it yeah i mean i am trying to i like i i don't really know what else to say about that chapter

[00:02:25] because it was i hated it i absolutely fucking hated it i also hated it it was horrible it was bad it was

[00:02:31] awful yeah well then you'll like today oh are you being facetious or well it's short so okay okay all

[00:02:41] right um also just to to state it yeah since we since today what we're getting into is uh daniel chapter

[00:02:49] 12 it's going to be officially the end of daniel and the end of this uh vision that was four chapters

[00:03:00] long or whatever yeah so um but we're not going to stop with daniel there necessarily right we are

[00:03:06] going to go on to we're going to do a q a after this to cover the visions right in the last week

[00:03:14] yeah the visions basically yeah and then um we're going to go on to do the the three books that were

[00:03:20] left out the apocryphal ones right um i don't remember what they're called and i know what i'm

[00:03:26] susanna oh really because i know one of them is bella and the dragon there you go we got two of them

[00:03:31] two of the three right yeah i can't remember what the other one was called but um we are going to

[00:03:35] cover those before we get out of the daniel uh you know area neighborhood place the craziness sure

[00:03:42] yeah that um so that being said are you uh you ready to get into daniel chapter 12 i sure as fuck i am

[00:03:48] all right let's do this okie dokie

[00:03:56] all right let's finish up this bitch of a book called daniel

[00:04:01] how's that sound you didn't give your signature name daniel there you go there you go we can't leave

[00:04:06] it out on the last book or the last chapter i mean i know you're right you're right well the book of

[00:04:11] daniel as i have said with every chapter yeah is two parter and uh first daniel was better was

[00:04:21] chapters one through six yeah and those were court tales they were history of um hi my name is daniel

[00:04:28] and i'm a kid and me and my buddies here we're homies and we so believe in god yeah right and so

[00:04:34] that was cute yeah and then chapter seven through 12 was something else and fucking tirely sure was

[00:04:42] yeah sure was it is um apocalyptic visions it sure is yeah yeah and i do not love it yeah no it's uh it's

[00:04:51] not great there's there's definitely been better stuff we've read in the bible than this and and it's

[00:04:57] very it's just so try hard it really is i'm i'm it can't get over how bad this is written and how

[00:05:07] forced these ideas are in there though they're just so ill-placed in this book because they don't

[00:05:14] really they're trying really hard to make this guy a prophet right like they want to show how

[00:05:19] much how much he's a prophet he's listed as a prophet no i get it i get it but we know we know

[00:05:25] from study the people that have studied the bible and and and told us that these were written much

[00:05:31] later generally after these things all have happened right that so they're trying to take

[00:05:38] these things they already know and they're trying to shove them back into this fictional character

[00:05:41] of daniel right and make them work as this actual prophet that did these things and it's the

[00:05:47] same thing that was kind of happening in the one through six where they were over emphasizing how

[00:05:54] much god influenced like nebuchadnezzar and and different things that happened in those time frames

[00:06:00] right it's this it's still all this propaganda about how great god was back then and how much

[00:06:06] prophecy he gave to this guy daniel and how much you know influence he had over all these events that

[00:06:13] were happening back then and it's just complete and utter bullshit right that that's all i sorry i

[00:06:18] just had to go off one more time one more time yeah last chance right yeah all right let me do a

[00:06:23] quick quick quick recap chapters 10 11 and 12 make up daniel's final vision so that's what we're

[00:06:28] finishing up today okay describing a series of conflicts between the unnamed king of the north

[00:06:34] and king of the south leading to the quote time of the end right right when israel will be vindicated

[00:06:43] and the dead raised some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt sure

[00:06:50] yeah all right right okay so there's that all right let's get into chapter 12 are you ready for

[00:06:56] this i'm i'm ready yeah okay well i don't typically read the chapter titles anymore right because they

[00:07:03] aren't considered necessarily relevant yeah they are part of the bible right but i gotta read this

[00:07:09] one okay the time of the end okay at that time that the time of the end probably i'm assuming

[00:07:17] that time or that time that we just followed up from the last yeah the daniel was hearing from

[00:07:22] the guy okay the shiny guy who had been helped by michael right who just recounted like 300 400

[00:07:29] years worth of history yeah in one breath right yeah yeah so at that time michael the great prince

[00:07:36] who protects your people will arise okay so this is still shiny dude talking yeah okay yeah there will

[00:07:42] be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then but what is

[00:07:50] funny is that they're still in the beginning of nations they just don't know it right yeah but at that

[00:07:56] time your people everyone whose name is found written in the book you know is this the book of

[00:08:02] that well okay but there was truth sure what are we sure that's the book because there's also that book

[00:08:07] where they put everybody's name and some people's name is going to be taken remember it was back like

[00:08:12] during moses's time well i'm thinking as the book of truth because that's what they were just talking

[00:08:18] about in the previous chapter right but they're also talking about names which names the only place

[00:08:22] i've heard that before was in the book of whatever the is that the book of life i don't remember what

[00:08:27] it was called of names the book of truth is it the book of love the book who wrote the book of love

[00:08:33] i don't i mean i don't think the bible can tell us that absolutely not no well anyway at that time

[00:08:39] your people all the people whose name are found written in whatever book sure those guys will be

[00:08:45] delivered okay yeah multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake oh we got zombies yeah we

[00:08:52] do what again what you know there are so many fucking zombies in the bible it's ridiculous i did not know

[00:09:00] how many zombies are in the bible i did not know no i i mean i didn't know that i look i've heard the

[00:09:05] jokes about jesus before yeah because he was raised from the dead sure sure everybody knows that everybody

[00:09:10] knows jesus zombie but there are a lot of actual bits about zombies in the bible i had no idea and

[00:09:16] i'm just like wow this is a lot of no wonder there's such a hang-up about zombies in our culture

[00:09:22] right i didn't know that it could stem from the bible but it does and that makes perfect sense

[00:09:28] um i every time i hear a zombie in the bible i think oh that's got to be the last one right right

[00:09:35] yeah it's not right so i mean i know we got jesus coming but besides last one other than jesus right

[00:09:42] right do you think there's any more zombies i'm gonna go with at this point yeah who even fucking

[00:09:47] knows we got revelation coming still oh that's which i'm sure there's zombies in revelation right

[00:09:51] there's everything else from what i understand yeah why not there's like sword handed edward

[00:09:57] scissor hands and a fucking dragon and stuff right i don't i don't know okay so multitudes who sleep

[00:10:03] in the dust of the earth will awake some to everlasting life and others to shame shame shame

[00:10:11] and everlasting contempt so either way it's everlasting okay you're gonna suck forever or

[00:10:17] you're gonna be got it got it i i'd rather just sleep thanks yeah yeah i just is this kind of i can't

[00:10:25] remember if we've covered something like this before but is this like a new take on afterlife here

[00:10:29] um this is end of days right but i'm saying like this specific take on how like either you're going

[00:10:37] to be tortured forever type thing or you're going to be raised up yeah is this specific because it

[00:10:42] feels this feels closer to the heaven and hell bit right yeah this is so it does feel a little bit

[00:10:47] newer than some of the other takes on um well afterlife that we've covered think about when this is

[00:10:53] written we're getting closer to the time of jesus we are so yeah makes sense okay um the more

[00:10:59] quote unquote civilized the more city hubs the more that people settle down and and stop um you know

[00:11:08] traveling with tents and and animals and stuff right um the more that cities are building up the more

[00:11:16] that um people want retribution and um like like there's more interaction between each of each people

[00:11:27] and their neighbor right yeah and so they're wanting they're gonna want to to blame like hey my next

[00:11:35] door neighbor just did a fucking thing and they need to go to hell for that they need to be punished

[00:11:41] well and i think we see this in society today that people enjoy the idea that people that they don't like

[00:11:47] or hate will be going to suffer forever like that's i i mean i actually have been the target on on

[00:11:54] social media from people who you know quote that hate atheists because we're not christian right yeah

[00:12:00] or or whatever they enjoy the idea that you're going to burn in hell yeah which is just sickening

[00:12:06] to me that very someone enjoys that idea but you know whatever right that's weird it really is

[00:12:14] i'm like so you're the one who would ask then what is keeping you from murdering people if not god

[00:12:23] like i get why you would ask that if you are standing over there enjoying the idea that i will

[00:12:29] burn in hell forever right right no i've i've actually had some people tell me that they

[00:12:34] would do all the bad things if it wasn't for their god and i'm like i believe that is actually

[00:12:40] really disturbing yeah my guy i i feel like i feel like there should be some kind of psychological

[00:12:48] test to be allowed to human you know what i mean sure like i i feel like there should be a way to be

[00:12:56] like hey this guy just told me that he would kill people if it wasn't for religion right that that's

[00:13:04] the only reason his fear of god or his love and fear of god is the only thing keeping him from

[00:13:11] raping people i'm running over kittens i think that that is a mental health cry is what it is yeah

[00:13:18] you know like that person really needs some mental health um experts to examine examine them and help

[00:13:24] them terrifying though and and and part of this could actually stem from their religious you know

[00:13:32] indoctrination and and belief systems and all that like i know of people who they're the the things

[00:13:41] that they believe um made worse things that were not mentally stable ah you know what i'm saying yeah

[00:13:50] like i i've i've known people actually close to me that have had problems that caused things like

[00:13:57] that where it was not great you know so it was not great no i'm just i i don't want to you know

[00:14:03] i'm not going to dig into what i what i'm saying what i'm thinking about but i mean it is i i feel

[00:14:09] like it can make worse sure things that could already be bad um one thing that's interesting is um and

[00:14:16] i'm talking out of my ass here i'd have to research to find the study but what you're talking about

[00:14:21] is religion exacerbating a mental illness or a mental health situation sure um what i have also

[00:14:30] read is that people in mental health crisis like with um borderline personality disorder or other forms

[00:14:38] of psychosis um not schizophrenia because they don't call it that anymore i forget um anyway other types of

[00:14:45] personality disorders sure and mental health crises yeah can also bring on a sudden faith in god

[00:14:53] hmm okay like suddenly somebody in crisis like finds god and becomes like super crazy religious got it

[00:15:01] yeah that's that's interesting yeah i mean i look there's all kinds of things out there but i i i still

[00:15:09] feel like even if that person had no religious upbringing and that happened to them religion is still

[00:15:15] part of culture part of our worldview that we have as a society and even if you were not indoctrinated in

[00:15:23] it and not and didn't really have much to do with religion at all to begin with if you are having mental

[00:15:29] health issues it could still end up being something that stems from that that becomes a

[00:15:35] you know focus that you focus on sure you know just because of culture because of the world around you

[00:15:42] yeah so you know it's not good as you would say yeah right i i it it there would be something else

[00:15:51] that would take its place if it wasn't for that right so i mean i don't want to say that it's not

[00:15:55] good specifically because someone who has mental health issues chooses religion to focus on there

[00:16:01] would be other things that they might choose to focus on couldn't you just focus on like scrapbooking

[00:16:07] i don't know all right so those who are wise um i of the people rising from the dead i don't know

[00:16:15] those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens and those who lead many to righteousness

[00:16:22] like the stars forever and ever but you daniel roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time

[00:16:30] of the end many will go here and there to increase knowledge okay so oh so he's saying

[00:16:38] don't store this information for future people he's like people to read write this down but lock it up

[00:16:44] got it yeah okay i don't know why they would i'm writing down that i'm not writing this down

[00:16:51] what well i mean if you if so if you're a person writing this 400 years later right you have to have

[00:16:56] a reason why it's just now coming out that this person wrote this right that is true this seems

[00:17:01] like an excuse as to why it's just now coming out okay i follow yeah yeah sorry i wasn't there

[00:17:06] i was still trying to make sense of but the dead right then i daniel looked and there before me stood

[00:17:15] two others one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank okay so like here they're

[00:17:23] opposites right one of them said to the man clothed in linen my shiny guy yeah who was above

[00:17:30] the waters of the river how long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled

[00:17:34] yeah how long daniel that is that is a good question i bet i bet you might know the answer

[00:17:39] actually shiny guy do you know that's a shiny guy yeah okay okay how long is it gonna be the man

[00:17:45] clothed in linen who was above the waters of the river uh-huh lifted his right hand and his left hand

[00:17:51] toward heaven okay and i heard him swear by him who lives forever would that be the ancient of days

[00:17:58] probably saying it will be for a time times and half a time oh my god right i can't spell it out

[00:18:07] that would be too easy i have to be cryptic yes okay okay i see you over there shiny man

[00:18:18] when the power of the holy people continued shiny guy has been finally broken all these things will be

[00:18:25] completed okay what the power of the holy people has finally been broken i'm sure that was something

[00:18:31] to do with one of the visions that we've talked about maybe okay that because there was something

[00:18:35] to do with uh like when anti and anti-cus or whatever yeah um when it was like the

[00:18:43] what he was gonna break i don't know shit there's so much going on i can't hardly keep track of it all

[00:18:48] it's true but i'm sure it has some tie-in with okay some of the visions that we've talked about

[00:18:53] already or whatever i'll try to figure it out yeah that would be great tomorrow because i got nothing

[00:18:58] here yeah i heard but i did not understand me daniel so i asked my lord what will the outcome of all

[00:19:07] this be you know since you can't fucking answer my question as to but when though yeah right right he

[00:19:13] replied go your way daniel because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end

[00:19:19] many will be purified made spotless and refined but the wicked will continue to be wicked i mean he

[00:19:27] sounds so exacerbated that i'm just no that's not the word um excess exasperated right i'm so sorry

[00:19:36] i lost my words for a minute i'm getting worse with age you know i sound like fucking trump

[00:19:42] okay anyway many will be purified made spotless and refined but the wicked will continue to be wicked

[00:19:49] none of the wicked will understand but those who are wise will understand okay okay he's like saying

[00:19:56] don't worry about it sure from the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that

[00:20:03] causes desolation is set up that's specifically we're talking about anti-antipus right okay there

[00:20:09] will be 1290 days okay oh okay so that that's very specific yeah okay and okay blessed is the one who

[00:20:20] waits for and reaches the end of the 1335 days okay as for you what's the gap there i have no fucking

[00:20:31] idea okay all right as for you daniel go your way till the end you will rest and then at the end of the

[00:20:37] days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance the end so it sounds like we have

[00:20:47] some somewhat specific time frames here that don't exactly line up with those 70 week 70 year

[00:20:55] things the seven sevens of seven because because a lot of people tie in antiochus as this person that

[00:21:03] they're talking about and if we're talking about antiochus and then only a thousand or 1300 days

[00:21:07] after the end of that then that keeps us very much in the realm of not jesus i don't know

[00:21:16] well i'm just you know i i need to do more studying because i am very confused i'm just saying that

[00:21:25] if if we're basing this off of antiochus and in the life of antiochus right if we go let's just

[00:21:32] take the time that he dies which i don't know when it was exactly but i know that no matter what

[00:21:38] time he died within that lifetime that he had it couldn't have equated to enough time to get to

[00:21:45] jesus with a thousand or 1300 days right unless we're making 1300 days and a thousand days um a thousand

[00:21:52] years and 1300 years which we've done before with weeks so you know just who knows um like i said

[00:21:58] somebody did some math that made it like exactly work i'm gonna try to find that because that was

[00:22:03] fun um i don't believe in it or anything right and they really did some twisting but it was fun

[00:22:10] to make it like line up but i am specifically curious about the discrepancy right in those days

[00:22:17] like what happened between 90 versus the 1335 right i don't get it what are those is that 45 yeah 45

[00:22:24] days what are those 45 days entail i have no idea what what's up with that i need to know like that

[00:22:30] needs to be in our q a yeah no i totally agree i totally agree i'm i'm just i'm having a hard time

[00:22:36] making all of this work quite honestly yeah no i don't i don't think there is any making this work

[00:22:41] for us as we read the bible right the bible as it reads is stupid no it's just it's making me learn a

[00:22:48] lot of history and the history itself is interesting but i and i probably wouldn't have learned it any

[00:22:55] other way so i'm glad it's being forced upon me sure but also i kind of resent that i'm having to

[00:23:01] learn so much history this way what i resent is that by the time you get done learning about the

[00:23:07] history that scholars say that this is supposed to be someone else is going to be like well that's not

[00:23:12] actually what it means right you know i mean like there are different interpretations even of this

[00:23:17] yeah and so like we can all somewhat agree that it probably points to this but that's when it when

[00:23:24] that doesn't fulfill someone else's need in some other sect or or group of religions right they're

[00:23:31] going to be like well that didn't actually mean that specifically it's possibly something that

[00:23:36] happens later and it's like okay so the vagueness in the bible allows you to make this mean whatever

[00:23:42] the fuck you want it to mean and you don't give a shit about what was actually happening right and

[00:23:48] we're just going to pretend like it means whatever you want it to mean right and that's what they're

[00:23:52] actually saying they don't want it to mean this thing they're going to make it mean something else

[00:23:57] and when you do that you it doesn't matter what it is it doesn't matter what you've made it

[00:24:01] so at that point the conversation's over yeah basically basically yeah i mean that you can't

[00:24:08] have a conversation with someone who just like rips out everything that they want and just create

[00:24:13] something on their own like that you can't there is no conversation to be had no that's when you just

[00:24:18] go oh okay and then you just walk away like all right i get i get it now okay right yeah you're one

[00:24:27] of those sure sure okay all right well anyway that do you have anything else to add or was that

[00:24:33] going to be it for today that was going to be it for today um i only took a few notes and i thought

[00:24:39] rather than try to go over this short chapter i would just save it q a and yeah we'll just go over

[00:24:46] this final vision as our q a yeah i like that um it'll be chapters 10 11 and 12 yeah i think right

[00:24:54] that sounds right yeah and we've had some long chapters so we'll give everybody a break with a

[00:24:58] short chapter today so yeah sounds good to me sounds good to me too all right well that was daniel

[00:25:03] chapter 12 and officially the last canonical book of daniel yes so we have finished yet another

[00:25:13] book of the bible that's right but we have some extracurricular involved with this book that we're

[00:25:20] back tomorrow with q a not on saturday right and then we'll be back the following days with

[00:25:27] the following the the non-canonical yeah um the apocryphal yeah books of daniel yes so we'll be

[00:25:35] following that up and those apocryphal books may or may not be apocalyptic i don't know what's in

[00:25:42] them for those of you who have been following us in the book of daniel know where that stems from

[00:25:45] yes so anyway um and then we'll do our regular you know chapter or book wrap up and contradictions

[00:25:53] and you're always wrong yeah yeah we'll do all those things when we get to the end of those so

[00:25:58] um we will see you tomorrow yeah bye bye