Jeremiah Chapters 46 - 52 Q&A [PART 2]

[00:00:03] Hey everyone, husband here and I'm Wife. If you've been listening to us

[00:00:07] Then you know we're all about reading the Bible and reacting to it on our first read through cuss words crying laughing and more

[00:00:13] We're passionate about creating a podcast that takes the sanctity out of the sacred text and simply stating it as we see it

[00:00:19] But we can't do it without your help

[00:00:21] We're asking for your support to help us keep this podcast going. There are two ways you can donate text

[00:00:26] SacDisk that's s-a-c-d-i-s to 53555 if you're in the US with a one-time donation

[00:00:34] Any amount helps or if you'd rather start a sustaining membership sign up on our patreon page at patreon.com

[00:00:41] Forward slash sacrilegious discourse membership levels start as low as two dollars a month

[00:00:45] We are amazed and grateful for our fans that support us now and you can become one too with your support

[00:00:51] We can keep sacrilegious discourse alive and well for years to come

[00:00:54] So please donate today text sac disk to 53555 if you're in the US or sign up for our patreon page at

[00:01:02] patreon.com forward slash sacrilegious discourse

[00:01:15] Welcome to sacrilegious discourse. I'm husband and I'm wife together

[00:01:19] We're reading the Bible for the very first time we grew up without religion and wanted to know what all the fuss was about

[00:01:25] Well, what do we learn so far that God is a dick and apparently some people believe in talking donkeys

[00:01:32] We're not trying to pass ourselves off as experts

[00:01:34] Nope

[00:01:34] We're just reading the Bible for the first time and given our first take reaction

[00:01:38] If you'd like to join us in this venture you might consider starting that episode one otherwise jump in wherever you like

[00:01:44] All right. Let's go read the Bible. Yeah, let's get to it

[00:01:47] We're running way the fuck behind

[00:01:57] And yeah, so we're we did a part one

[00:02:02] Yesterday ish

[00:02:04] I don't know like a day and a half. I don't I don't even fucking out whenever it went out

[00:02:07] But like you have been

[00:02:10] Overwhelmed with research. Yeah, and so everything has gone haywire with the end of Jeremiah

[00:02:17] I'll never ever do this again put five chapters a wrap-up and

[00:02:23] An additional project all on

[00:02:27] Myself at the same time because that's kind of what happened, right? Yeah

[00:02:33] Yeah, I'll never do that again. Well, I mean the Q&A ended up being way more in-depth than we have ever had

[00:02:40] Because the Q&A covered five chapters and they were really weird

[00:02:45] They are really weird. They are really different. They are there's a lot of things about them

[00:02:49] We've got to cover yeah, sometimes we have chapters that it's just like we're stretching to try to figure anything else to talk about

[00:02:55] Yeah, not this time new no we did an hour episode the last time for part one. Yeah, that was

[00:03:05] 4950 no wait what 46 47 48 and 49 right right yeah, so anyway

[00:03:13] Today we're doing what was it again? We're finishing up the Q&A for Jeremiah

[00:03:20] chapters 50 and 51 which cover the

[00:03:23] Oracle

[00:03:25] to the nations and these two are particularly with regard to Babylon and magic and magic and

[00:03:33] Then finishing up with chapter 52, which is just a little epilogue. Got it got it. All right sounds good

[00:03:39] You ready to get into this? Yes, okay. Okay. Let's do it

[00:03:57] Since 2013

[00:03:59] Bombas has donated over 100 million socks underwear and t-shirts to those facing homelessness if we counted those on air this ad would last over

[00:04:08] 1157 days

[00:04:10] But if we counted the time it takes to make a donation possible

[00:04:13] It would take just a few clicks because every time you make a purchase

[00:04:16] Bombas donates an item to someone who needs it go to bombas.com

[00:04:20] Acast and use code a cast for 20% off your first purchase. That's bombas.com slash a cast code a cast

[00:04:28] Millions of people have lost weight with personalized plans from noon like Evan who can't stand salads and still lost 50 pounds

[00:04:35] Salads generally for most people are the easy button right for me that wasn't an option

[00:04:41] I've never really was a salad guy. That's just not who I am but noon worked for me

[00:04:46] Get your personalized plan today at noon.com

[00:04:49] Real noon user compensated to provide their story in four weeks

[00:04:53] The typical new user can expect to lose one to two pounds per week individual results may vary

[00:04:57] A lot can happen in three years like a chat bot maybe your new best friend

[00:05:00] But what won't change needing health insurance united healthcare try-term medical plans underwritten by golden rule insurance company offer

[00:05:07] Flexible budget friendly coverage that lasts nearly three years in some states learn more at uh1.com

[00:05:14] All right, so here we are jumping into the end of jeremiah

[00:05:19] Right. Yeah, um, we're gonna start with jeremiah chapter 50

[00:05:23] And this is one of those chapters that's part of the series of oracles against foreign nations

[00:05:31] And that whole bit consists of chapters 46 through 51

[00:05:35] But 50 and 51 are

[00:05:38] The nation in question is Babylon. So we decided to do those two together

[00:05:43] And that that's what I mean like all of jeremiah was focused on Babylon. So, I mean that this is the big one, right?

[00:05:49] Yes, so yeah now I do want to point out that

[00:05:54] oracles against the nations

[00:05:57] is

[00:05:58] In notes

[00:05:59] abbreviated oan

[00:06:01] Okay, and I just thought I'd put that out there because isn't that one of trump's fucking channels?

[00:06:06] Uh, oan. I mean is it a right wing

[00:06:10] Leaning channel. I think that's I think that's one of those fox news offshoot

[00:06:15] Bullshittery

[00:06:16] I've literally never watched it. So I don't even know for sure but it sounds like that might be

[00:06:21] I just think it's funny because i'm pretty sure that one of those channels is called oan

[00:06:25] Yeah, yeah, but oan also means oracles against the nations. Maybe that's maybe that's where it's spawned from

[00:06:32] I have no idea. No, who knows? I don't know. I just thought it was interesting right, right? So

[00:06:37] All right, so in this chapter

[00:06:39] We talked about Babylon getting conquered and israel and juda getting restored

[00:06:45] Right as you do as you do always always there's always that glimmer of hope

[00:06:51] I'm gonna step on you, but I'll leave one of your toes unbroken right right right

[00:06:55] So let's talk about the conquest of Babylon and the humiliation of her idols. Okay, sure. Yeah, it is characteristic of

[00:07:04] Jeremiah

[00:07:05] That threatened calamity should come from the north

[00:07:10] First the sythians and then the Babylonians

[00:07:13] Whereas here the persians or the meads are the likely culprits

[00:07:18] So always there were people coming from the north right okay

[00:07:22] The meads who formed the chief part of the army of syrus

[00:07:27] Layed to the north or northeast of Babylon. Okay, okay

[00:07:31] So that's when he's like Babylon gonna get it. That's who he's talking about got it the meads and the persians

[00:07:37] Okay, okay

[00:07:38] So and they did eventually get conquered by the persians. I think right like the Babylonians did okay

[00:07:44] Um, but their walls never fell which is a big right right. Yeah, because that was the that was part of the um

[00:07:51] Whole prophecy sure and so then apologists are like yet

[00:07:57] Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I

[00:07:59] It doesn't really matter to me whether or not the prophecy actually came true with regard to these battles or not because

[00:08:05] because so many different

[00:08:07] Groups of people were falling and taking over and I mean just there was all kind of shit happening back then

[00:08:14] Okay, but I do want to put it out and I agree with you 100% also because prophecy is bullshit

[00:08:20] Right. Yeah, so I do agree with you 100% but I do want to put out there also

[00:08:26] Spoiler alert. Yeah. Yeah Babylon is mentioned again and is prophesized against again

[00:08:34] in the book of revelation

[00:08:36] Okay, so Christians are like no, they're still about to they're still gonna get theirs. It's to come

[00:08:44] Just keep watching keep watching 2 000 years later keep watching

[00:08:48] But it's it's funny to me though that that wasn't 2 000 years later though for the bible writings

[00:08:52] No, no, no, but

[00:08:54] It at the end of the book of revelation like that was a long time ago

[00:08:59] Right, okay, we're waiting like the book of revelation has um these prophecies

[00:09:05] Just like on hold got it. You know what I mean? Yeah, so

[00:09:09] Does that make sense? I think so the so the had the well, I don't know the history of it

[00:09:13] And I'm not sure that you researched this or not probably no other than that. I um in the notes

[00:09:19] Every time I said well this prophecy

[00:09:21] From Jeremiah never came true. Yeah, and then Christian apologists would come right in with their thing. Yeah, but

[00:09:28] It didn't come true yet because

[00:09:31] We we talk about we see it come up again in the book of revelation that Babylon is gonna fall

[00:09:37] And its walls will fall and it's going to get crushed totally blah blah blah blah blah

[00:09:42] Well, I mean there certainly isn't a Babylon now right and whether it's walls fell or not

[00:09:47] Is kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme of prophecies because prophecies are

[00:09:51] Trash to begin with yes, so I'm just I'm I'm trying to put it out there because you said it's irrelevant and

[00:09:59] Yes, it is I agree with you

[00:10:01] But it also is a little bit relevant in that we're gonna circle back around to this

[00:10:07] Eventually, okay. That's all I'm trying to put out. All right. Okay verse two

[00:10:12] of chapter

[00:10:14] 50 of Jeremiah says

[00:10:16] Babylon is taken bell is shamed

[00:10:19] Meridoc is broken in pieces her idols are humiliated her images are broken in pieces

[00:10:26] Now the Hebrew word used here is indelicate

[00:10:31] Like it's very rude. It actually translates to balls of excrement

[00:10:37] Shitballs if you will

[00:10:39] It is applied dingleberries, maybe

[00:10:41] Could be could be it is applied to pagan idols in Leviticus

[00:10:46] Deuteronomy

[00:10:47] First kings and several other places apparently got it. Yeah, so I'm just letting you know right. Yeah

[00:10:54] Now bell where it says that um bell is shamed. Yeah, um that stand that in Hebrew meant lord

[00:11:02] Okay, and that was the title

[00:11:05] Not name of the storm god Enlil and when marduk became head of the Babylonian pantheon

[00:11:13] In the second millennium bce

[00:11:15] He received the designation of bell also. Okay. All right. So just like head dude

[00:11:21] Yeah, like head god. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah

[00:11:26] So then we talked about the restoration of israel and juda

[00:11:29] And since the judaians will by this time have humbly repented before god

[00:11:35] The downfall of Babylon will give them the opportunity to return to the land where their ancestors once lived

[00:11:42] I see okay and god knew that by then they'll have humbly repented

[00:11:47] Oh, yeah, definitely and there's never gonna be a problem with them ever ever again ever

[00:11:51] Worshiping another idol ever again, right and the ashira poles are all gone. I call bullshit

[00:11:57] I do as well. I do as well

[00:11:59] um when cyrus of persia conquered Babylon in

[00:12:03] 539 bce

[00:12:05] He promptly gave permission to the jews to return and that was mentioned in second chronicles

[00:12:11] Yeah, I remember that actually they really liked cyrus. So yeah, that was uh, he was a cool dude for them

[00:12:16] Yeah, yeah. So just a reminder there. Yeah kind of putting this all back together

[00:12:20] Well, just to put it in in years like it was I think 577 or whatever 578 bce

[00:12:27] um when

[00:12:28] Babylonia or Babylon Babylon conquered the israelites. So that would put that about

[00:12:35] 40 50 years later, right when the persians came in and conquer them

[00:12:38] And that's where they get their 70 years

[00:12:41] Sure. Yeah, whatever not sure how all that math works

[00:12:44] I doubt it does exactly right so

[00:12:46] It works close enough. Maybe there have been people that have stretched it saying well, you have to include this

[00:12:54] Domination period where the skirmishes hadn't happened but the visitations had like yeah, whatever

[00:13:01] I mean, there was a whole period of time when the when egypt was basically

[00:13:05] Running them and then babelon came in and started running them

[00:13:08] And yes, you could maybe start counting from whenever you want to to make it 70 years

[00:13:12] But no when they fucking burnt the goddamn temple down

[00:13:15] That's when we should start and when

[00:13:17] The babelonians fell that's when we should end sure and I bet that that doesn't fucking add up

[00:13:23] Well, you can take into account that there were three different waves of babelon taking

[00:13:29] Uh people from right right, but they never like fully conquered it

[00:13:34] They just were like no, we're starting our power here

[00:13:37] But they did insert a puppet king. They did. They did. So I mean would that not count as like do you have to smash buildings to conquer?

[00:13:46] I don't know and that's where we get into it. Like what is the specific date?

[00:13:50] You know, but because but they weren't in exile yet

[00:13:53] So like if you asked that first round of people that got kidnapped, I guarantee you they'd be like

[00:13:59] Yeah, we're starting it from this day. All right. Yeah, you know what I mean

[00:14:03] I guess I'm not trying to argue with you. It was a very low amount of people is all I was saying

[00:14:07] Right, like so, I mean the vast majority of isrealized didn't get conquered until the 578 577 timeframe

[00:14:14] They still thought of themselves as the city that they were right. So yeah, I'll I'll go with you there

[00:14:20] Right. All right. So then we talked about fleeing from babelon under attack

[00:14:24] Okay, and verse nine reads for behold

[00:14:27] I will raise and cause to come up against babelon an assembly of great nations from the north country

[00:14:34] Okay, now the army of syris was composed of meads persians armanians

[00:14:39] caduceans

[00:14:41] Sakai etc

[00:14:43] Although all these did not necessarily come from the north individually

[00:14:48] Even so they were arranged under the meads who did come from the north with regard to babelon

[00:14:53] Got it. Okay. That's a lot of fucking nations. They were like we're done with you

[00:14:57] Right, right like we want you to fall down. Yeah

[00:15:01] So then we talked about the actual fall of babelon being the vengeance of the lord

[00:15:06] Okay, all right now syris captured babelon by diverting the euphrates river into a trench

[00:15:13] The persians attacked babelon so unexpectedly that when the outer areas of the city had already been taken

[00:15:21] Those in the center did not even realize that they were captured. Oh, wow

[00:15:25] Yeah, that's crazy. They were still partying. Yeah

[00:15:28] It has troubled some scholars that jeremiah predicted the violent destruction of babelon

[00:15:34] Whereas its defeat by syris in 539 bce

[00:15:38] Took place without a battle and with no damage to the city and that just harkens back to what we were saying

[00:15:44] Yeah, like can you really call that a sack if right not a building fell?

[00:15:49] No, so I mean whatever it is what it is

[00:15:52] You know, I mean like I said the I don't I don't feel like these things are and moreover. I don't think that

[00:15:59] Um, a lot of the stuff was written when they say it was like when we're supposed to believe it was written, you know, like

[00:16:05] So I don't know how I feel it's really hard to assign a specific start and stop date to any

[00:16:11] Skirmishes battles and wars right but specifically like so we went through all of this is what bothered me with this last section of

[00:16:18] Books right or chapters. I mean

[00:16:21] was that

[00:16:22] We went through the whole all of Jeremiah and there was not really a

[00:16:27] A real bad word said about

[00:16:29] Babylon the entire time it was just about israel and what they were doing wrong and what was going to happen to them

[00:16:34] Right, that was all we ever heard

[00:16:37] And then we get to these last books that are not written in the same vain style or anything

[00:16:42] And then they're like, yeah, babelon's gonna fall and i'm like, okay

[00:16:45] Fuck up. I already know that and you're just sticking this in Jeremiah because it sounds good and it's a quote-unquote

[00:16:52] Prophecy, right?

[00:16:53] I that that's where I struggle with this whole

[00:16:56] It just doesn't it doesn't fit right doesn't fit totally agree totally agree

[00:17:01] So then we move on to god saying he will pardon and preserve israel because that's what always happens

[00:17:07] Right, of course

[00:17:08] So the northern kingdom of israel had been conquered by assyria

[00:17:12] And then assyria by babelon

[00:17:15] So that the exiled people of israel as well as those of juda eventually came back together

[00:17:21] Under babelon's power. Oh, okay interesting, right? Like I hadn't thought about it, but yeah, that totally makes sense

[00:17:28] right, right so

[00:17:30] Per Jeremiah's prophecy

[00:17:32] Now babelon will fall and israel and juda will then return to their land a united and forgiven people

[00:17:39] Okay, so all right interesting interesting. Okay

[00:17:43] So then we get into babelon slaughter

[00:17:45] Verse 21 says go up against the land of marathim

[00:17:50] Against it and against the inhabitants of peacock

[00:17:54] Waste and utterly destroy them says the lord

[00:17:57] Yeah, now marathim and peacock were real locations in babelon

[00:18:02] Ironically those place names sounded like the hebra words for double rebellion or rebel of rebels

[00:18:11] And punishment or land of doom. Okay, so that's fun, right?

[00:18:15] Okay, and then verse 27 says slay all her bulls let them go down to the slaughter

[00:18:21] Okay, the bulls were once sacrificed to the idols of babelon

[00:18:25] And then they would be destroyed in the supposed impending slaughter to come upon babelon. Oh, okay

[00:18:31] Yeah, that's interesting, right? Okay, so then we talk about proud babelon being repaid and israel's strong redeemer

[00:18:39] Then we go into the sword against chaldea the complete nature of babelon's destruction

[00:18:46] Destruction from the north and the council of the lord against babelon. Okay, so that was all in chapter 50

[00:18:54] Got it. Okay. Yeah, so now we move on to chapter 51, which is your favorite. Definitely my favorite. Yeah

[00:19:00] Because because magic magic curses and whatever the fuck's going on there. Yeah

[00:19:06] So chapter 51 is about the lord's judgment on babelon

[00:19:09] And this is the last chapter of the series of oracles against the nations

[00:19:15] Okay, and here we go. Okay. Yeah. Yeah the prophecy of jeremiah continues from the previous chapter

[00:19:21] And we hear about a destroying wind against babelon right verse one reads

[00:19:27] Behold I will raise up against babelon against those who dwell in leb kami a destroying wind

[00:19:35] Now leb kami, which is literally the midst of those who rise up against me

[00:19:41] Means chaldea. Okay, and it's cryptically written using that at bash thing that I talked about before the cipher

[00:19:48] Where it's mana alphabetic substitution

[00:19:51] Where you know the first letter of the one is the last letter of the other sure and that you know

[00:19:57] Then the second one is the second to last letter. Yeah. Yeah, and

[00:20:00] The use of the at bash was to disguise the identity of the adversary

[00:20:06] Who would in the context of the exile?

[00:20:08] Particularly in the early period of the exile seemed to make historical sense like this would make sense that they would do this

[00:20:16] When they're talking about it, but no one would but one would wonder why a writer would

[00:20:22] Introduce the device at this point when babelon had been referred to already

[00:20:27] Right, which kind of you know goes to when was all this shit

[00:20:31] Well, that doesn't that lend to them being in exile with babelon because if they're writing it in a cipher, right?

[00:20:37] They're maybe disguising it because they are already in captivity

[00:20:41] Of babelon. That's what i'm saying though

[00:20:43] It it makes the order that these

[00:20:46] All of these chapters were written in and the time period and who wrote it. It makes that all questionable

[00:20:52] Right even more so than it already was sure because if they're using that system

[00:20:57] They're using it for a reason. Yeah, and they're trying to

[00:21:01] Keep it in code that they're talking about

[00:21:04] Babylon fucking sucks right and more over if we

[00:21:09] If we say that this was written during the babelonian exile, right?

[00:21:13] There's no evidence that we have in fact that there's strong evidence against it that

[00:21:18] Jeremiah made it to that point. You know like he probably died

[00:21:23] Prior to that and or ran away somewhere exactly

[00:21:27] So there's not a lot of evidence of him being in the exile exactly

[00:21:32] Yeah, there's a lot of evidence like you said that points to the fact that he probably

[00:21:37] Died out there in the desert right so if if in fact this was written during the exile or

[00:21:43] Or after the exile, whichever

[00:21:45] um

[00:21:46] Obviously it probably was not written by Jeremiah

[00:21:50] Exactly, you know goes along with a lot of what I've been thinking too. Mm-hmm makes a lot of sense, right?

[00:21:55] So then we move on to

[00:21:57] fleeing from a fallen babelon and verse eight says babelon has suddenly fallen and been destroyed

[00:22:04] Whale for her take bomb for her pain. Perhaps she may be healed

[00:22:09] Okay, so in this quote unquote Jeremiah because we've just decided that Jeremiah didn't write this

[00:22:14] Yeah, but Jeremiah was sarcastically mocking babelon here

[00:22:18] The nations would obviously not wail over the empire that had made them suffer

[00:22:23] And would have no interest in a bomb for its pain or healing

[00:22:27] So we wondered like what the fuck that meant it was sarcasm sure and they didn't have the slash s

[00:22:34] to

[00:22:35] Know the tone that we all know and use liberally in our text now because because

[00:22:42] We understand that you cannot always

[00:22:45] Catch tone and meaning right in the written word. Yeah

[00:22:49] So then we move on to the vengeance of god against babelon

[00:22:53] Okay, and verse 11 reads make the arrows bright gather the shields

[00:22:59] The lord has raised up the spirit of the kings of the meads

[00:23:03] And here Jeremiah is envisioning the coming battle against babelon through the kings of the meads

[00:23:10] Okay, so this was like a vision where he's like this is what's gonna happen

[00:23:14] And the meads lived in northwest Iran in the general region of the modern

[00:23:20] Iranian Kurdistan

[00:23:23] Okay, yeah, they were allied with Babylon in the destruction of Nineveh in 612 bce

[00:23:29] But later they joined the persians to defeat babelon in 539 bce

[00:23:35] Right, but if that didn't have so like we're the bible is trying to say

[00:23:40] Jeremiah prophesies this right that these that these people were going to do this thing

[00:23:45] And join with these other people to defeat right babelon, right?

[00:23:49] That's not what happened like this is totally written

[00:23:53] Closer this is closer to the end of babelon or or after the end of babelon one of the two

[00:23:57] Yeah, there's no way like I mean okay look

[00:24:01] Let's just let's just agree on one thing. I know you'll agree with me on this

[00:24:05] Prophecy

[00:24:07] Did not happen in the bible, of course prophecy did not happen anywhere ever and specifically when they get very specific about the fucking enemies

[00:24:16] You know that it was written either after during or after the after the effect. Yeah like there is no

[00:24:22] There's no way that this wasn't written at that point, right?

[00:24:25] So this is definitely written much later than the rest of Jeremiah. Yes, so okay. I'm sorry

[00:24:30] I'm just harping on that because it matters. It really really fucking matters

[00:24:34] And it matters for the context of a lot of the things that are in this chapter too

[00:24:38] so

[00:24:39] So the Medes and the Persians are linked together

[00:24:42] For example, the mother of Cyrus the Persian was a mead got it. So they are intertwined at this point

[00:24:49] Sure, okay

[00:24:50] So then we talk about the power of Yahweh and it gets contrasted with empty idols

[00:24:57] And then we read about bringing many kingdoms against Babylon. Okay, and verse 27 says

[00:25:04] Set up a banner in the land blow the trumpet among the nations prepare the nations against her

[00:25:10] Call the kingdoms together against her

[00:25:13] error rat mini

[00:25:15] Ashkenaz

[00:25:16] A point a general against her caused the horses to come up like the bristling locusts

[00:25:22] Okay, okay

[00:25:23] This was a call to sanctify and call together the various nations to wage their sacred war against Babylon

[00:25:31] Got it. Okay. The three specified kingdoms were in the area of present-day Armenia

[00:25:38] And were part of the empire of the Medes which spread in a great arc to the north of Babylon's dominions

[00:25:45] Okay, okay. Um verse 32 reads the passages are blocked the reads

[00:25:50] They have burned with fire and the men of war are terrified

[00:25:55] So the reedy swamps or marshes were a result of the Euphrates overflowing because remember they had blocked it

[00:26:02] Oh, right. We're right. Yeah, and so then they set all that shit on fire. Okay, and um

[00:26:08] That's kind of how they were able to say

[00:26:12] That it's burning. Yeah, and so yeah, that wasn't prophesized y'all saw that or heard the story about it. Yeah

[00:26:19] Yeah, so one thing that's interesting to note here is that this prophecy

[00:26:24] Might have allowed the Babylonians to be forewarned and thus forearmed against Cyrus's stratagem, right?

[00:26:30] You would think they'd be like maybe we should uh

[00:26:34] Check this out and not leave so many reads lying around to be burnt. Yeah, right

[00:26:38] But they appeared to have dismissed it and taken no preemptive action

[00:26:42] Because it didn't happen like that. Right that and not right there is to me the ultimate proof

[00:26:49] Yeah, among among many other things right like but the practicality of it is that

[00:26:54] If this had been put out there that this was a way that your city can be

[00:26:59] overtaken

[00:27:00] Yeah, and you hear about that shit

[00:27:02] You are gonna take some precautions like oh well, maybe y'all ain't gonna do it

[00:27:06] But somebody might try it now that they've read how to do it

[00:27:09] I'm not gonna leave reads lying around to get burned so y'all can

[00:27:14] Have a fire circle around my fucking city sure

[00:27:16] But even before we get to the fact that they're knowing things that they

[00:27:20] Definitely didn't know without seeing it or knowing it, you know, because they were there, right?

[00:27:26] Without even that I mean just when we were reading the chapter without doing any of this studying

[00:27:31] The style of this chapter alone was enough for me to say no. This was not no

[00:27:35] This is not Jeremiah. This is somebody emulating a deuteronomist style writing

[00:27:42] And then claiming to be Jeremiah and then at the end said these were totally what Jeremiah told me to write

[00:27:49] Keep in mind too that that's not that's not an uncommon thing in the bible or in those times

[00:27:54] Yeah, I was gonna say in litter in literature of that time at all

[00:27:58] A lot of people would take the name of somebody more famous to get their writings pushed out there

[00:28:03] Yeah, and and it wasn't kind of almost an accepted practice from what I've gathered

[00:28:07] Yeah, well, it also it was a sign of respect

[00:28:10] at this person was um

[00:28:14] He was a an accepted source of information

[00:28:18] And so you weren't you surfing his name

[00:28:20] You were helping to add to the story that he was already telling right. So yeah

[00:28:26] It wasn't necessarily a bad thing that this guy did this

[00:28:29] Whoever this guy is but it can know the bad thing is that

[00:28:33] Apologists today know that that was a common practice and they're ignoring that fact and saying no no no

[00:28:39] It says Jeremiah. He totally wrote it and it's like

[00:28:42] I'm a dumb ass in my fucking living room and I know that that is not true

[00:28:47] Right, so I know that you sir also know that that's not true right, right? So that's all yeah

[00:28:53] All right, so then we move on to the threshing of Babylon as they had threshed Zion

[00:28:59] Okay, and Babylon was like lambs to the slaughter

[00:29:05] Okay, and verse 39 says in their excitement. I will prepare their feasts

[00:29:11] I will make them drunk that they may rejoice and sleep a perpetual sleep and not awake says the lord

[00:29:17] Okay

[00:29:18] So due to the great size of the city that outskirts were captured without the people in the center knowing anything about it

[00:29:24] Which we already said, right?

[00:29:26] There was a drunken festival going on and they continued to dance and enjoy themselves

[00:29:32] Until they learned the news the hard way and many revelers retired to rest and never awoke because they were slain in their beds

[00:29:40] Which is what that sleep of perpetual sleep meant

[00:29:43] So they went out partying dancing ate drink enjoyed the pretzel festival

[00:29:49] So this is very detailed as to like the actual occurrences that that maybe did happen as far as what we know

[00:29:55] And that's what makes it interesting. So that definitely lends more and more and more

[00:29:59] To the than after the Babylonian exile. Yeah, exactly. Yeah

[00:30:04] I just wow that kind of chilled me

[00:30:07] Yeah

[00:30:07] You go to a party you come home and go to sleep and you're like drunk and hung over but that's okay

[00:30:12] You never wake up, right? Yeah, wow

[00:30:15] Yeah, I mean at least you died happy question

[00:30:17] I get I mean sure if you never knew it was coming and you died in your sleep

[00:30:21] Right the last thing you knew was a drunken party. Sure. Yeah

[00:30:26] all right

[00:30:27] So moving on the next thing we get is to punishing Babylon and her idols

[00:30:32] And verse 41 says oh how she shack is taken

[00:30:36] And I forgot we had read about this before she shack is Babylon and that's again using that at bash cipher code thing

[00:30:44] Okay, and the defenses of Babylon were compromised when she was conquered by the Medes and the Persians

[00:30:51] So in a symbolic sense

[00:30:53] Apologists say the wall of Babylon did fall

[00:30:57] But that's like a yeah, but it didn't though, right? Well, that's kind of what I was getting at

[00:31:02] If you want to look at it with um symbolism like you could take it as meaning

[00:31:07] This but physically to be clear the walls never actually fell right. I got you. I got yeah

[00:31:13] So moving on

[00:31:15] Babylon that plundered the lord's house will now be plundered itself

[00:31:20] You mean the the the plundering that they did at the behest of god. Yeah, okay. I just yeah totally

[00:31:26] So verse 53 reads though Babylon were to mount up to heaven and those she were to fortify the height of her strength

[00:31:34] Yet from me plundering would plunderers would come to her says the lord

[00:31:40] And this is an illusion to the tower of babel

[00:31:44] Um where it says it was mounted up to heaven. Yeah, right, okay

[00:31:48] Which was constructed as a defense and in defiance against god back in genesis

[00:31:54] Okay, so

[00:31:56] They're they're saying that Babylon is just like the tower of babel got it which is

[00:32:02] Okay, ha ha ha right. I see what you did there. Ha ha ha

[00:32:06] So then we talk about babelons broken walls, which were never broken sure more okay, then we get to

[00:32:13] Um the post script of this chapter. Yeah, okay, so we're still in chapter 51

[00:32:18] Okay, yeah, and we talk about zedekiah's visit to Babylon and I have a little bit of notes here

[00:32:24] Okay, zedekiah or zedekiah. Okay, okay, okay because Jeremiah sent zedekiah to say all this shit

[00:32:30] I thought it was saraya

[00:32:33] Oh, you know what? I'm so sorry zedekiah is the king guy the public king. Yeah

[00:32:36] No, this is zedekiah's visit to babelon. Okay, and Jeremiah sent

[00:32:41] Saraya with zedekiah. Okay, okay. Sorry. Sorry. I got confused there. No, you're fine

[00:32:47] So he's Jeremiah sent saraya with zedekiah to babelon. Okay. Yeah, so this was not a year when

[00:32:55] Babylon came against Judah but instead an earlier time

[00:32:59] When zedekiah and neighboring kings had plotted a rebellion

[00:33:03] Against babelon while she seemed weakened. Okay

[00:33:07] This journey of zedekiah to babelon is not recorded anywhere else

[00:33:11] And was likely an attempt to make things right with nebuchadnezzar

[00:33:15] After the aborted plot in which zedekiah seems to have been implicated. So the king's like i'm your puppet

[00:33:22] I'm doing anything. Well, you met at me nebuchadnezzar. Right, right

[00:33:26] So nebuchadnezzar's quote-unquote intelligence his little fbi agents

[00:33:31] Got wind of impending plans and i'm thinking like yeah probably from fucking Jeremiah who was playing double agent, right?

[00:33:38] And thus some explanation was needed. Sure. He's like lucy

[00:33:43] I need an explanation right and then um

[00:33:48] Nebuchadnezzar's like so come tell me. Yeah, then zedekiah is like

[00:33:55] So zedekiah summons to babelon was undoubtedly to assess dudes loyalty

[00:34:00] Got it. Okay likely because of reports that envoys of five neighboring states

[00:34:05] had been conferring with him at Jerusalem. So so

[00:34:09] Nebuchadnezzar and babelon is like my guy my puppet king

[00:34:15] Sweet love child zedekiah. I heard that five different kings were visiting you

[00:34:21] Would you like to come up here to babelon and explain yourself, sir?

[00:34:24] Well, and I have to point something out here too. It's not explicitly said but like

[00:34:29] um the fact that Jeremiah you kind of alluded to it

[00:34:32] But the fact that Jeremiah is being sent or i'm sorry the fact that Jeremiah is sending saraya and zedekiah

[00:34:39] Down to nebuchadnezzar

[00:34:42] Kind of lends to the fact that he might work for the babelonians

[00:34:45] So yes, you know for the evidence and you did say that already

[00:34:48] But I just wanted to like reiterate that because yeah, it almost seems like he was the one in charge of handling some of this

[00:34:55] I wonder what the summons said because do you think nebuchadnezzar would be like get your ass up here, sir?

[00:35:02] Because I heard that five kingdoms visited you or do you think that he his letter would be like

[00:35:07] Dear puppet king zedekiah. I have a very important thing to discuss with you

[00:35:12] Please get your ass up here. You know what you did or you know the better way to do it would be to send them

[00:35:18] Tell Jeremiah like nebuchadnezzar could send something to Jeremiah and say hey

[00:35:21] Could you figure out a way to get um zedekiah to come see me big z and then Jeremiah like talks and talks to it talks

[00:35:28] And talks to him and says hey

[00:35:31] Maybe you should go do this to smooth things over and you know

[00:35:35] And then i'm gonna send saraya with you because I need him to do something too

[00:35:38] Exactly, and then uh, then maybe you guys can fix all this, you know exactly again

[00:35:42] Could could fall in line with his double agent either way either way right like Jeremiah knew

[00:35:48] Again, yeah, I will never not believe that. Yeah, he was a total double agent

[00:35:54] Yeah

[00:35:55] Him and his boys his squad. Oh, yeah

[00:35:57] So Jeremiah sent a copy of all of these prophecies. So these last two chapters. Yeah, okay, so 50 and 51

[00:36:04] Right, he sent all of those prophecies against Babylon with saraya

[00:36:09] Who was a judaean quarter master taken to Babylon in exile with zedekiah king of juda

[00:36:15] Okay, and he sent those to be read to the exiles in Babylon

[00:36:19] So he didn't send them to be read to the Babylonians right he sent

[00:36:25] The prophecies to be read in front of the exiles up there right the Israelites. Yeah

[00:36:32] To like yeah to like tell them

[00:36:35] You know Babylon's gonna fall be ready to run sure which is interesting to me

[00:36:40] Right, it's like he's again a double agent. He's playing fucking both sides

[00:36:44] But this would have been back in like the almost

[00:36:46] Um

[00:36:47] 580s or something like that. I can't remember exactly when they sent earlier. Yeah earlier

[00:36:51] So like this would have been earlier on before they even sacked Jerusalem exactly and so

[00:36:58] Yeah, I again, this is this is weird like he's sending stuff that we know for a fact was not

[00:37:05] Written by Jeremy, you know what I mean? Like this whole thing is just so weird and not correct

[00:37:10] None of it goes together and I'm like

[00:37:12] Maybe you sent something but it wasn't this because you were what telling

[00:37:17] Telling them. Okay. When you get my signal exiles up there get ready to run

[00:37:22] Right and then like the signal never came so they never got ready to run

[00:37:26] I feel like Jeremiah became a legend and then they to solidify that legend

[00:37:30] They started creating some other stories after the fact. Yes, right? Like that's maybe what happened

[00:37:35] Yeah, I totally agree with you right so we have to ask though

[00:37:39] I'm sorry. So rya was what a quarter master. What the fuck is that?

[00:37:42] Oh, I know what a quarter master is what is a quarter master somebody who manages all the supplies and stuff

[00:37:47] So, yeah, very good. Yeah, I mean, I knew that but sure I I know what it is logistically

[00:37:53] Speaking but let's talk about it in the terms of what they meant by it. Okay

[00:37:58] As quarter master, he was the staff officer

[00:38:01] Responsible for looking after the comfort of the king of Judah whenever he stopped for the night

[00:38:07] Okay, so not necessarily he was in charge of his quarters. Yes. So not necessarily like

[00:38:13] General supplies but like no. Oh, no. No. No just supplies for the king y'all. Sure

[00:38:18] I'm here to make sure his chamber pot is pretty not yours. Yeah

[00:38:22] So Jeremiah gave a copy of the prophecy to sariah because he did not go to Babylon himself

[00:38:28] And then Jeremiah ended his days in egypt womp womp

[00:38:32] Or maybe yeah, yeah, wherever he went, right? We've talked about that before

[00:38:37] Yeah, so um, then there's a graphic illustration of Babylon's coming judgment and that is the end of that chapter

[00:38:46] Okay, wait

[00:38:47] What I thought that was the chapter with the magic. Well, the whole chapter was magic

[00:38:52] That was chapter 51

[00:38:54] The whole thing was this big chante magic spell

[00:38:58] But I was just reading you the points in it of what happened. So let's talk about magic

[00:39:04] Okay, let's talk about that for a minute. All right. Okay. Let me scroll down here. Okay, so magic

[00:39:12] And that's what that whole chapter like the way that we just went through it

[00:39:16] It's like, yeah, that was total bible stuff blah blah blah verses nonsense things history, right? Right

[00:39:22] But as we were actually reading the verses

[00:39:26] The way it read was as a

[00:39:30] Chant or as something like a scene from beowulf or as like a curse right and

[00:39:37] That's what you are talking about one specifically

[00:39:39] It was verses 60 through 64 that I was that that caught my attention

[00:39:44] So because that's the ones where they literally

[00:39:47] Tell him to do this thing and then to tie it to a rock and throw it into the euphrates

[00:39:51] Yeah, so he tells saraya when you get there read all this shit out loud

[00:39:56] Yeah, and then wrap it around a rock

[00:39:59] Bind it that way and throw that whole thing into the euphrates river

[00:40:03] And then apologists come along later and be like

[00:40:06] That was totally to show what's going to happen to babelon

[00:40:09] And I'm like that would totally make sense except that we just now clarified that he wasn't reading that to the

[00:40:16] Babylonian leaders right right he was reading that to the jewish exiles. Yeah, so

[00:40:23] Why would he be symbolizing to the exiles?

[00:40:27] Like

[00:40:28] No, that's stupid right. That's not what happened stop. Yeah, he's not sending the message to

[00:40:34] Um nebuchadnezzar right he's he's

[00:40:37] He's doing a fucking curse. Yes amongst his people. Yes. So let's talk about that, right? Yeah, so defensive or

[00:40:45] legitimate magic in mesopotamia, which was like that whole swath of area land stuff. Okay, right

[00:40:53] It's kind of like the generic term that we use like today

[00:40:56] We would say you know the Middle East and we mean like this whole

[00:41:00] Big swath of land that none of us really knows all the countries that are quote-unquote in the Middle East

[00:41:06] we we don't really know like

[00:41:08] Um how far it butts up against china or goes down into india like we don't know any of that stuff

[00:41:14] Right, we just say Middle East sure and we're just i'm not talking about people like no

[00:41:19] I know read the news and no maps right. I'm talking about like normal people

[00:41:24] That don't have a fucking clue right. It's just how we refer to that area

[00:41:28] That whole area over there is the Middle East it used to be called mesopotamia, right? Okay. Yeah, so

[00:41:34] Um defensive magic and mesopotamia were incantations and ritual practices

[00:41:40] Intended to alter specific realities. Okay. Yeah, so yeah that tracks that tracks, okay

[00:41:46] The ancient mesopotamians believed that magic was the only viable defense against demons ghosts and evil sorcerers

[00:41:54] So i'm not saying that they thought that it was demons ghosts and evil sorcerers

[00:41:58] But they did think that Babylon was bad right well and I kind of comment on this before and it's something that's been

[00:42:04] In my mind is that they weren't necessarily doing the exact same thing that the Babylonians were doing

[00:42:11] With regard to their magic and curses and things like that, but they did

[00:42:16] At this point, you know based on what we think about what's going on in this chapter

[00:42:20] They had been living amongst the Babylonians and probably picked up some of their practices

[00:42:24] Or at least were around them enough to absorb some of it. You know so sure like oh this spell seems to work

[00:42:31] Let's use this spell but replace our god's name so that we're doing it to our god not their god sure sure so yeah, totally

[00:42:38] Yeah, um the ancient mesopotamians also used magic intending to protect themselves

[00:42:44] From evil sorcerers who might place curses on them and this kind of sounded like

[00:42:49] Chapter 51 sounded like both a curse against Babylon

[00:42:55] Yeah, a manifestation of this is what we want to happen to Babylon

[00:42:59] But also a protection spell of and and we want them gone because we want to be free

[00:43:06] Sure, so it's kind of like all of those things together right okay now curses were typically enacted in secret whereas

[00:43:14] A defense spell

[00:43:16] Against sorcery was conducted in the open in front of an audience if possible

[00:43:22] Hmm right interesting very interesting because he specifically told him

[00:43:28] Go up there and read this to those fucking exiles. Yeah read it out loud

[00:43:32] Right before you you know do these other wrap it up and toss it things

[00:43:36] Yeah, yeah, so the concept of magic was intimately linked with the spoken and written word

[00:43:42] Which wikens would probably tell you what still is today. I don't know

[00:43:45] Um the act of speaking a ritual formula was an act of creation

[00:43:50] There is a sense in which action and speech

[00:43:54] Were one and the same thing so by speaking these things they are bringing it into

[00:44:00] Being yes existence. Yes the magical powers of words extended of course to the written word

[00:44:06] Got it. Yeah, so everything that they were saying

[00:44:09] um

[00:44:10] It the writing it down was what allowed it to travel and then the speaking it was the bringing it into existence

[00:44:17] Well, that's why they needed both with regard specifically to chapter 51 at the very least

[00:44:23] There was a certain cadence to the words at some level too. It wasn't just like a normal chapter right exactly very

[00:44:30] repetitive and it was very

[00:44:32] Um almost poetic. Yes, you know I again there's translations stretching it sure sure, you know it definitely had a cadence

[00:44:40] So yeah, no, I totally agree. It could definitely be a chant if tweaked right and may have been a chant as originally written

[00:44:48] In the Hebrew or Greek or whatever. I don't know sure so that that would be something

[00:44:53] Interesting if I knew those languages right

[00:44:56] Now most magical rituals were intended to be performed by an expert in the magical arts

[00:45:02] The profession was generally passed down from generation to generation

[00:45:07] And was held in extremely high regard

[00:45:10] They often served as advisors to kings and great leaders

[00:45:15] Okay, which is interesting

[00:45:17] they also

[00:45:19] likely served not only as a magician but also as a physician a priest

[00:45:24] A scribe and a scholar

[00:45:27] Which I found interesting because later on, you know, we learned that baruch is his personal little scribe

[00:45:35] For jeremiah. Yeah. Yeah. So and um baruch and saraya were relatives so

[00:45:44] Um, you know, whatever was passed down in the family right might have related to both of them sort of yeah

[00:45:51] So I'm just throwing it out there

[00:45:52] Which would also fall in line with the whole double agent thing because if that's something that was in that family

[00:45:58] And they were friends with Jeremiah that tracks that

[00:46:01] They learned this skill from obviously some other culture, right? And so whatever it

[00:46:08] There's

[00:46:09] It's just there's too many things that fall in line here for me. I'm like, there's something fucked up with all this

[00:46:14] Shit. I'm just throwing this out there as food for thought. Yeah, I could go either way

[00:46:18] It doesn't really fucking matter. This is like the closest we've come to a conspiracy theory. I know

[00:46:23] I'm loving it. It's fun

[00:46:25] Jewish religious

[00:46:27] Um, I'm sorry Jewish religion

[00:46:30] No, let me try that one more time. Sure. Yeah, I'm gonna read. Okay Jewish religious law

[00:46:35] forbade divination and other forms of sooth saying which is you know telling the future

[00:46:41] Well, yeah, I mean they we you're supposed to stone people to death if they do it wrong

[00:46:46] Except for, you know, the witch of endor

[00:46:48] Yeah, but that was that that which was kind of secret

[00:46:52] Yeah, because remember they the guy dressed the king dressed up and like went and secretly visited the witch of endor

[00:46:57] So he's like, I won't stone you this time. Right. Yeah

[00:47:00] So practical cabala in historical Judaism is a branch of the Jewish mystical tradition

[00:47:07] That concerns the use of magic. It was considered permitted white magic by its practitioners

[00:47:13] Reserved for the elite who could separate its spiritual source

[00:47:18] From realms of evil if performed under circumstances that were wholly impure

[00:47:23] See meaning if they decided that it was good, then it was good. Right. Right. Yeah, how convenient, right?

[00:47:29] Yeah, just depends on who you were friends with in the office. Yeah. Yeah

[00:47:33] These magical practices of Judaic folk religion became part of practical cabala and they date from Talmudic times

[00:47:41] Okay, which is you know kind of what we're talking about, right?

[00:47:45] um

[00:47:45] The Talmud mentions the use of charms for healing and a wide range of magical cures that were sanctioned by

[00:47:52] Rabbis. Hmm. So they did allow magic. They just didn't call it magic. Right. Yeah

[00:47:58] Although magic was forbidden by Levitical law in the Hebrew Bible

[00:48:02] It was widely practiced in the late second temple period and particularly well documented in the period following

[00:48:10] The destruction of the temple and on into the third fourth and fifth centuries current era

[00:48:16] Which is where like the destruction of the temple is where we're at, right? Yeah

[00:48:19] You know sure is okay

[00:48:22] Ancient examples of magic can be loosely grouped into two categories. Yeah, and this kind of gets a little out there for a minute

[00:48:30] But I promise to bring it back. Okay

[00:48:32] We've got black magic largely associated with inflicting harm and white magic associated with providing benefits or forms of protection

[00:48:41] Now curse tablets definitely fall into the former category the black magic. Yeah, okay

[00:48:48] These tablets were normally thin pieces of lead inscribed with a curse against an enemy

[00:48:54] Which could then be folded and often sealed and pierced with a nail

[00:48:59] The curses were then buried commonly in bodies of water

[00:49:04] Or wells and also in graves interesting

[00:49:08] Yeah

[00:49:09] Okay, the language. I'm sorry. Did you say bodies of water? Yeah, I think you did. Yeah

[00:49:14] Yeah, and just to be clear he had to wrap it around a rock and throw it into the Euphrates, right? Right. Yeah, okay

[00:49:21] Just checking just checking. Okay

[00:49:24] The language of those texts that do give context is often concerned with

[00:49:29] justice

[00:49:31] Listing the target's crimes in great detail

[00:49:34] And handing over responsibility for their punishments to the gods

[00:49:39] Often using indefinite grammar meaning present tense and mixed with

[00:49:46] It might go back and forth like yeah, can't really

[00:49:51] It it doesn't have to follow normal grammar laws. Got it. So I'm just saying kind of all falls in line with what we read

[00:49:58] Yeah, it was a spell. It was a spell. It was magic. All right. We're absolutely right on this

[00:50:02] You were 100% right. I will not I won't I I will never be convinced otherwise

[00:50:07] Two things about the book of Jeremiah

[00:50:09] He was a double agent, right? And chapter 51 was a goddamn magic spell

[00:50:14] And actually a third thing he didn't write the majority of this shit because it was written after he died or baruch wrote it

[00:50:20] Yeah, sure. Okay

[00:50:22] So anyway

[00:50:24] Jewish magical papyri

[00:50:26] So papyrus is right. Yeah, there's a subclass of papyri with specific Jewish magical uses

[00:50:32] Which shed light on popular belief during the late second temple period and after into late antiquity

[00:50:40] Okay, although magic was forbidden by levitical law in the Hebrew bible. It was widely practiced

[00:50:47] Um in the second late temple period and I just said all that particularly well documented blah blah blah blah blah

[00:50:53] And Jewish and Samaritan magicians even appear in the new testament

[00:50:58] Wow

[00:50:58] Yeah, yeah, okay

[00:50:59] So that is my spiel on magic. Yeah from chapter 51. I very much appreciate all of that because I mean

[00:51:07] it's

[00:51:09] This has been um one of those just things that pop up in the bible that I have been

[00:51:15] Dying to like get to like to figure out more about it

[00:51:19] And we didn't initially find out a lot of information

[00:51:22] Well, like everything you've come up with and I and I really really appreciate the research you did

[00:51:26] Let me is is fantastic. Let me tell you why this took me so long because you can't just type in

[00:51:32] Hey, was Jeremiah chapter 51 a fucking magic spell

[00:51:37] Like you don't get don't think I didn't try that actually, okay?

[00:51:40] Just in case like somebody in reddit or something. Yeah wrote like a little like quora

[00:51:46] Thing on it like yeah sure and here's some sources, right? Yeah

[00:51:49] Like you always ask the dumb question first just in case somebody else

[00:51:53] Has a resource or an opinion about it. Sure. Okay, I'm not opposed to following all the rabbit holes, right? Yeah, so

[00:52:00] You can't just type that so then the question is well, what the fuck do you do?

[00:52:06] What do you ask so I had to start with like a very basic like

[00:52:10] Magic during that time period. Yeah, okay magic

[00:52:15] Um to the egyptians in that time period magic to the jewish in that time period magic to um

[00:52:22] Was there magic in babelonia and like so I had to go through like all these different areas

[00:52:29] And for every hour that I would read stuff. I would maybe take like

[00:52:34] Two bits of information well, and when you're talking when you're looking up stuff

[00:52:38] You you oftentimes find the apologist stuff first. Yes, right because there's so much of it out there

[00:52:43] yes, and and the the

[00:52:46] majority of the information that's out there is

[00:52:49] Is based on thinking is saying that jeremiah wrote this shit

[00:52:53] It was pre babelonia exile. Mm-hmm and that it was a prophecy, right? And the this is not magic. It was just

[00:53:01] Them, you know, whatever it doesn't even say that it's not magic because why would they say it's not magic?

[00:53:06] Nobody ever said it was right right. Yeah the misinformation on this third the the

[00:53:12] The mind fuck on this is is extensive. Yeah

[00:53:15] So I had to kind of find back ways to come at the information

[00:53:20] To say okay, I'm not saying that this was a magic spell

[00:53:25] But what is magic? What did magic look like back then where people doing magic and the answer is

[00:53:31] The magic that they did back then. Yes, they did and

[00:53:34] The second thing is and it looked like this right?

[00:53:38] Yeah, so no, and that's the amazing thing that I very much appreciated

[00:53:42] The stuff you found is it it confirms to me a lot of the things that I was thinking

[00:53:47] Yeah, me too

[00:53:48] That the fact that I thought it and then we've now been able to somewhat confirm it

[00:53:53] Is very satisfying now. We can sleep at night

[00:53:58] So my next question is um, are we ready to get into chapter 52? Yeah, let's go ahead and do it

[00:54:05] Okay, like imagine let's let's wrap up. Let's let's get this q&a done

[00:54:09] Yeah, and this is a long episode, but let's get it done. Let's get it done

[00:54:13] And then we'll be done with Jeremiah except for all of the wrap up

[00:54:16] Except for all the stuff we're not done with yet. Yeah exactly

[00:54:19] All right

[00:54:19] So this chapter was added after Jeremiah's time chapter 52 chapter 52

[00:54:26] Probably by Ezra whom we've already read. Yeah after the return from the captivity

[00:54:32] So I don't know if you recall that Ezra and the Amaya they were buddies. Yeah in pals

[00:54:36] So this would have been by them. Okay. So I don't know why the fuck we're reading about people that came before them

[00:54:44] Right, like why couldn't they just staple it together?

[00:54:47] The other way

[00:54:48] Yeah

[00:54:49] In the order that these guys appear would that not make better sense?

[00:54:52] It would okay because that really like threw me for a loop like I could not

[00:54:57] Understand it. I was like wait Ezra. We already read those guys. Hold on

[00:55:01] What do you mean? Ezra probably wrote wait Ezra came after this guy

[00:55:04] Well, you and I you and I talked about this tonight actually

[00:55:07] Yes, and I think that at some point we're gonna try to

[00:55:10] We keep coming up these projects that we're never gonna do but we're gonna do this one at some point

[00:55:16] But like we need a chronological

[00:55:19] um

[00:55:20] Atheist reference bible and I feel like that would be perfect not not necessarily atheist

[00:55:24] But just like study like just something in order a chronological

[00:55:29] Like combining the books of kings and chronicles and all these fucking prophets, you know

[00:55:35] Get rid of the Psalms and the fucking poise nonsense, right?

[00:55:39] Get rid of joe, but I don't know he doesn't really fit in that you can just write his name on the timeline

[00:55:44] Joe, yeah, right, you know whatever

[00:55:47] But I need I need this

[00:55:49] Reorganized in such a way as that it fucking makes sense because I I cannot hold all of this extraneous data

[00:55:57] It's just like various darts on a on a dartboard really a flowchart would be

[00:56:03] Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, you know just I'm sure somebody has already done that

[00:56:07] But I I would like to do it because it would help me

[00:56:10] But I feel like the flow chart would still have to be a book because it would be so long

[00:56:14] You have to keep continuing the flow chart

[00:56:16] You'd have to like just like keep turning the pages to get the next like century or whatever. Yeah. Yeah

[00:56:22] All right, so we are going to move on to then chapter 52. Okay. All right

[00:56:27] And uh, we start with the failure of kings the evil reign and rebellion of zedekaya

[00:56:34] Okay, and we forgot like I think for a while that yeah, he was just a puppet king you guys

[00:56:40] He was a young man. He was not in the best position

[00:56:44] Like I mean I kind of feel sorry for him. I do supposed to do

[00:56:47] Yeah, and and he's like described as a weak wishy washy king

[00:56:52] And I'm like was he weak and wishy washy or was he powerless and did the best he could right?

[00:56:57] How could you be anything else when you have somebody else controlling you?

[00:57:00] But you're doing things against the wishes of your own people

[00:57:03] Right, like you're trying to take care of your people

[00:57:04] But you also have to answer to you know fart face up there. Yeah, you know

[00:57:09] So I don't know I think I have a little bit more sympathy for zedekaya than the rest of the

[00:57:14] I mean that couldn't have been a good position to be in I wouldn't want it. No

[00:57:17] So zedekaya was only 21 when nebuchadnezzar set him on the throne of juda as a puppet king

[00:57:23] After the rebellion of quakene

[00:57:27] In second kings. Okay, and see that sentence right there. I was like hold on hold on

[00:57:32] I kind of remember that why the fuck am I what okay?

[00:57:36] Like it I just I need a better way

[00:57:39] Yeah, okay. He reigned as king of juda from

[00:57:43] 597 to 587 bce. Okay, so about 10 years sure. Okay, right

[00:57:49] Zedekaya was a weak king whose reign was characterized throughout by religious failure and political

[00:57:56] indecision

[00:57:57] I just I hate that characterization of him, right?

[00:58:00] Finally after years of uncertain plotting he decided to rebel openly against his overlord babelon

[00:58:08] Right, and I'm like, I mean I'm sure look he's he's the king who was put in place

[00:58:14] By nebuchadnezzar, right? Yeah, and he knows what kind of power they have

[00:58:18] He has seen it for his fucking head and what what they could do to them

[00:58:22] Yeah, so like

[00:58:24] Deciding to go up against that guy

[00:58:26] Is not going to be an easy decision and

[00:58:29] You know moreover he if I had to guess why he would have even attempted to do something

[00:58:35] It's because peer pressure and

[00:58:38] Just finally was like fuck it. You guys want to do this? Let's do it. Yeah, you know like I don't whatever

[00:58:42] I don't care anymore, right? Like what do I have only my sons and my eyeballs to lose

[00:58:48] So verse four reads now

[00:58:50] It came to pass in the ninth year of his reign in the tenth month on the tenth day of the month

[00:58:55] The nebuchadnezzar king of babelon and all his army came against

[00:58:59] Jerusalem and and camped against it and they built a siege wall against it all around

[00:59:04] Okay, and this date is reckoned to be january 15th ish 588 bce

[00:59:10] Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, so just putting that out there. Okay

[00:59:13] Um verse six says by the fourth month on the ninth day of the month

[00:59:17] The famine had become so severe in the city that there was no food for the people of the land

[00:59:22] I remember we were talking about this the exact dates are killing me here on this day

[00:59:26] This is when they decided they were so fucking hungry the day before they were only pretty hungry. Yeah

[00:59:33] Um, this date is reckoned to be about july 18th

[00:59:36] Okay, 586 bce. So the siege against Jerusalem had lasted almost a full 18 months. Wow. Yeah

[00:59:44] So they starved them out for a year and a half. That's rough. Yeah

[00:59:47] So then we move into zedekai has failed escape his capture and execution

[00:59:53] Okay, what was he wasn't really executed. He was well. No, there was execution of some people but not him. Yeah

[00:59:59] Yeah

[01:00:00] So okay verse eight reads put the army of the chowdians pursued the king and they overtook zedekai in the plains of jericho

[01:00:09] And we've talked about this before how he was like so close to making it and he was almost there

[01:00:15] If he had just been able to cross into egypt, but he couldn't right so then um

[01:00:20] What stuck out was wait the plains of jericho jericho jericho, right like okay

[01:00:27] So there's a little bit of irony here because

[01:00:30] Jericho is the very spot where israel first set foot on the promised land

[01:00:36] Yeah, and this is also where the last of the davidic kings was captured and his monarchy shattered

[01:00:44] That's interesting, right? Yeah. Yeah, there's some poetry there if you will. Yeah

[01:00:49] Here where israel experienced her first victory as the walls of jericho fell before unarmed men who trusted

[01:00:56] God was the scene of her last defeat

[01:01:00] Whomp whomp yeah

[01:01:02] So then we get into the destruction of the temple. Okay, that's fun

[01:01:05] Yeah

[01:01:06] So verse 12 says now in the fifth month on the tenth day of the month which was the 19th year of king nebuchadnezzar king of babelon

[01:01:14] Nebuchadnezzaradan the captain of the guard who served the king of babelon came to jerusalem

[01:01:20] He burned the house of the lord and the king's house all the houses of jerusalem

[01:01:25] That is all the houses of the great he burned with fire

[01:01:29] And all the army of the chelians who were with the captain of the guard

[01:01:33] Broke down all the walls of jerusalem all around. Yeah, okay

[01:01:37] So let's talk about all that a little bit. That was three verses. I just read sure

[01:01:40] Okay

[01:01:41] So the tel mood declares that when the babelonians entered the temple

[01:01:46] They held a two-day feast there to desecrate it and then on the third day

[01:01:50] They set fire to the building which burned throughout that day on the next

[01:01:54] Got it the calamity surrounding the fall of jerusalem and the burning of solomon's temple

[01:02:00] Is commemorated in modern judaism by the annual fast day

[01:02:05] Tisha ba'av

[01:02:06] Okay, okay. Yeah, um this holiday is or holiday. It's not a holiday. It's an observation

[01:02:12] Is an annual fast day in judaism on which a number of disasters in jewish history occurred

[01:02:19] primarily the destruction of both solomon's temple by the neo- babelonian empire

[01:02:25] And the second temple by the roman empire in jerusalem later on

[01:02:30] So that's a sad day, right?

[01:02:32] It is believed to be a day which is destined for tragedy and thus is regarded as the saddest day in the jewish calendar

[01:02:40] I can see why which day was it again? I'm about to get there. It's called tisha ba'av

[01:02:45] Right, right, right. It falls in july or august. So it's coming up. Okay last year it fell in july

[01:02:51] But this year it will be observed beginning at sunset 12 august through nightfall 13 august got it. So

[01:02:59] you know just

[01:03:01] little patience and um sympathy for your jewish friends that day who are

[01:03:06] Observing this. Yeah a note about nebue zaradan the captain of the guard that title in hebu is literally

[01:03:14] The chief executioner

[01:03:16] Or the slaughterer and remember how like at first we were like, oh, he's pretty good guy because he took jermia under his wing

[01:03:23] And he was going to take care of him and stuff and then we were like holy shiples

[01:03:26] He's killing everybody right. We're like, I guess he's not so nice after all right. Yeah. He's the chief executioner

[01:03:31] He's the slaughterer. He's not nice got it. He's not a good guy

[01:03:35] Methodically he set about to demolish the beautiful city burning the palace and the chief buildings breaking down the walls and wrecking the temple

[01:03:44] So but again, this leads me to believe that jermia was a double agent

[01:03:49] Because why the fuck would you leave? Why would uh nebue zaradan be like, I hate you die

[01:03:55] I hate you die. Oh, hey jermia sub right you want to come with us? You're gonna stay either way is cool

[01:04:00] Yeah, cool cool cool. Okay. All right. I'll check you later. Be

[01:04:04] Like yeah, that's totally how that conversation went. Yeah

[01:04:07] Okay, so then we get into the deportation of the people

[01:04:10] Okay

[01:04:11] Babylon took most of the people into captivity leaving behind only those that were of no use to them

[01:04:17] Wow

[01:04:17] Okay. Yeah, no use

[01:04:20] And then came the deportation of temple vessels

[01:04:24] So they also stripped the temple of its valuable metals taking its furnishings

[01:04:28] Decorations vessels and utensils to Babylon remember they were naming like plates and cups and spoons and forks. Yeah

[01:04:34] Yeah, things too large to carry whole were broken up so that they could be carried more easily

[01:04:40] And the guards forced the captives to carry the heavier items before killing them upon arrival

[01:04:47] You remember that? I remember that yeah, that made me like I don't know why that bothered me more than anything

[01:04:52] Right, like you have hope that maybe

[01:04:55] Because you're helping them out, you know, yeah, maybe that maybe I'll just be an exile person

[01:04:58] Maybe let's let me run away or something, you know, right?

[01:05:00] And they're like using use directly to your death. Right. Like that's just I don't know the tragedy of that. Yeah

[01:05:08] So then we get into the execution of the officials and the leaders of the rebellion

[01:05:13] The chief priests top army officers and leading palace officials were all executed summarily

[01:05:19] Wow, boom boom boom dead

[01:05:21] Okay, you're done. Yeah, so then we get into the register of the final phase of exile

[01:05:28] And um the last bit of verse 30 reads all the persons were 4,600 and we were like, oh, that's it

[01:05:36] Yeah, so the smallness of his numbers compared with those given in the book of second kings because we also got a number of

[01:05:43] Exiles from second kings. Okay, so this small number

[01:05:46] Indicates that Jeremiah likely only counted the heads of the families meaning the adult males

[01:05:52] And thus this only represents a small portion of the exiles got it

[01:05:56] So

[01:05:57] The wives the children their servants and all that were likely not counted. Okay, so that

[01:06:03] Raises the number drastically. Yeah

[01:06:06] Which you know, that kind of makes sense because that's how they

[01:06:08] um

[01:06:09] Did they're counting of people their census stuff back then right?

[01:06:13] So the head of household thing and it's always the dude. Yeah

[01:06:17] So then we get into the end of the chapter a small ray of hope seen in Joaquin

[01:06:23] And an improved situation in Babylon. Yeah, so evil miradoc the son of Nebuchadnezzar in 561 bce

[01:06:32] The year of his ascension to the throne of Babylon

[01:06:36] Which was in the 37th year of the captivity

[01:06:39] and the 191st year from the building of Rome

[01:06:44] Ordered Joaquin to be taken out of prison

[01:06:48] Promoted him to a place of honor in the Babylonian palace and treated him kindly for the remainder of his life

[01:06:55] A sign for the captive Jews that God had not forgotten them

[01:06:58] And that he was still in control of their affairs

[01:07:01] And it gave them hope that they would yet be released and return to their homeland

[01:07:07] The end

[01:07:09] Okay, so we are officially done with reading

[01:07:13] Jeremiah and all the q and a's for it. Right. We still do have the

[01:07:18] Um wrap up and contradiction though like we're gonna do a wrap up in contradiction still. Yep

[01:07:23] I again i'm not not making any promises because this has been a wonky weird

[01:07:28] Situation few days here with how much research we've had to do

[01:07:32] But we're gonna I think we're gonna try to get out for sure at least an episode tomorrow if not to

[01:07:38] Yeah, I think I think we're gonna try to finish up Jeremiah altogether tomorrow so that we can start the next book

[01:07:44] I believe is Lamentations. We want to start that on monday right right so

[01:07:48] Not saying for sure that we'll get it done, but

[01:07:52] That's the go look out for new episodes is all i'm saying. Yeah, so

[01:07:55] Um, thank you guys for sticking with us through these last few days and

[01:08:00] I hope you really enjoyed the uh the work we put into this because this was actually a lot of research for wife

[01:08:06] And um a lot of impatience for me for wife

[01:08:09] So she had to deal with a lot of things because I was getting it, you know irritated

[01:08:15] Well, I mean I said this the last episode you kept coming in and being like how much longer and I kept saying one more

[01:08:20] Hour at least yeah, and I kept being that way for you know days. Yeah

[01:08:24] So everybody congratulate wife on finishing up this wonderful q&a and we will see you guys tomorrow

[01:08:32] More than likely for the wrap-up and possibly the contradictions also. All right until then we'll see you guys. Bye

[01:08:46] Hey wife, I guess that's the end

[01:08:50] It doesn't have to be we are on lots of social media platforms like twitter our handle there is sacrilegious underscore d for d's nuts

[01:08:57] Oh my god stop doing that. Anyway, we're also on facebook instagram and pinterest

[01:09:03] There's a link to all of our social media sites at our website. Oh, we have a website

[01:09:07] Yeah, it's sacrilegious discourse.com where you can also find a link to our merch shop

[01:09:11] We have a merch shop. Yep

[01:09:12] We have podcast theme clothing mugs notebooks and more as well as an atheist and science themed products

[01:09:18] Wow, our fans should really go check that out right now

[01:09:21] Definitely they can get in touch with us by sending an email to sacrilegious discourse at gmail.com

[01:09:26] But before they do that, we could really use some help. Oh, yeah with what?

[01:09:30] Well, it's not free running the podcast and we need some financial support in order to get better equipment

[01:09:35] Which will free up time so we can concentrate on our podcast and our fans

[01:09:38] Okay, so what should they do head over to patreon.com forward slash sacrilegious discourse and sign up as a contributor on our podcast

[01:09:46] Supporters there receive additional bi-weekly episodes that we record just for our patreon members for as little as two dollars a month

[01:09:52] Also, we'd really appreciate it if you would like and subscribe on whatever platform you're using and apple podcast reviews help us out

[01:09:59] Tremendously like and subscribe leave an apple review. Join us on twitter support us on patreon

[01:10:05] That's a lot of instructions. Don't forget to say thanks. Thanks. Okay. Bye

[01:10:15] Hi, i'm daniel founder of pretty litter cats and cat owners deserve better than any old-fashioned litter

[01:10:20] That's why I teamed up with scientists and veterinarians to create pretty litter

[01:10:24] Its innovative crystal formula has superior odor control and weighs up to 80 less than clay litter

[01:10:29] Pretty litter even monitors health by changing colors to help detect early signs of potential illness

[01:10:34] It's the world's smartest kitty litter go to pretty litter dot com and use code a cast for 20 off your first order

[01:10:40] And a free cat toy terms and conditions apply c-site for details

[01:10:45] The mamas bonus moms office moms moms of moms this mother's day gives back to the ones that have given us so much

[01:10:51] 1 800 flowers helps you celebrate all your amazing moms with handmade bouquets

[01:10:56] Sweet treats gourmet food and one of a kind gifts ordered easily and delivered fresh for a limited time

[01:11:02] You can save up to 40 off mother's day best sellers at 1 800 flowers dot com slash a cast

[01:11:08] Don't wait order today and save up to 40 percent at 1 800 flowers dot com slash a cast

[01:11:15] 1 800 flowers dot com is more than your birthday anniversary or just because gift giving destination

[01:11:21] We put our hearts into everything we do to help you celebrate all life special occasions with friends and family

[01:11:27] From our farmers and bakers florists and makers

[01:11:30] Everything from 1 800 flowers is made with love every step of the way because we know that nothing is more important than delivering a smile

[01:11:37] To learn more visit 1 800 flowers dot com slash a cast. That's 1 800 flowers dot com slash a cast

[01:11:44] you