Ezekiel Chapters 31 - 35 Q&A: Bible Study by Atheists

[00:00:00] Welcome to Sacrilegious Discourse. For this is what the sovereign Lord says, Why do you need prophets to tell people who you are and what you want? If you can justify everything that the God of the Bible

[00:00:11] has done, then you can justify any of your behavior. A lot of this mentality is trickling into what is now mainstream right wing Christianity. I am capable of empathy greater than this God of the Bible.

[00:00:26] This is a Bible that they tell kids. This is the good Lord. This is the good book. This is he is fantasizing about murder, mass murder. And over to Sacrilegious Discourse.com right now

[00:00:40] I got a Halloween as a review or some Buddhist on Patreon. Husband Wife, what are we doing today? Well, today is actually Sunday, but we're gonna pretend like it's still Saturday so we're doing

[00:00:58] our Q&A Saturday, but on a Sunday. That's right and what are we Q&A in today? We are covering chapters 31 through 35 of Ezekiel. Okay, all right, you got some good questions for us today?

[00:01:15] I got some mediocre questions. Me, okay. That's not a good cell. The fuck. I have some... These are what you say is these are amazing questions. You think around and find out.

[00:01:24] I have some very exciting questions that I cannot wait to get into. There we go. See, I'm teaching Wife how to podcast live on our fucking podcast. I'm sorry. Amazing. You ready to do this? I am so excited to do this! Yes! Let's do it. Okay, don't be.

[00:01:45] All right, we are hopping into our Q&A for Ezekiel chapter 31 through 35. All right and the first question that we had came from chapter 32. Okay, okay. So I'm gonna read you a couple of

[00:01:59] verses here and then we will talk about what? Okay. Sure. So we're starting with verse 28 through 31. Okay. You two, Pharaoh, will be broken and will lie among the uncircumcised with those killed by the sword. Ezekiel is there. Her kings and all her princes, despite their power they are

[00:02:18] laid with those killed by the sword. They lie with the uncircumcised with those who go down to the pit. Who's damn uncircumcised? Oh, I know. All the princes are the north and all the

[00:02:28] Sedonians are there. They went down with the slain and disgrace, despite the terror caused by their power. They lie uncircumcised with those killed by the sword and bear their shame with those who

[00:02:40] go down to the pit. And then here is verse 31. This is the important bit. Okay. Pharaoh, he and all his army will see them and he will be consoled for all his words that were killed by the sword.

[00:02:53] We did have a question about that. We were like, why was he consoled? That doesn't make any fucking sense. Yeah, we did not understand. We thought maybe it was like a mistranslation something.

[00:03:01] Yeah. Okay. So here is what I found about that. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Other nations that formerly terrified others and that Zekeal has already denounced such as Edam and Sedon. Yeah. Now like useless and dishonored, right? Sure. So all of these places are like already down in the pit.

[00:03:21] Yeah. Okay. Egypt will finish in the same place and join them in the pit. Sure. Yeah. We know the only comfort for Egypt will be to learn that well it's not the only nation to suffer such

[00:03:32] a humiliating end. Oh, that's the con. That's okay. It's a sarcastic con. It's like saying, well, I got my hand chopped off but on the bright side. So it's a break. I still have my left one.

[00:03:45] So fucking Bible, Ragh. Like the Bible's like you can be consoled that you're going to die like everybody else. Yeah. I mean, right? Yeah. Yeah. So Zekeal ironically mentioned some small comfort that would come to Barrow on the day he entered hell. The comfort would come from knowing

[00:04:04] he was not the only one to suffer such shame and disgrace in the judgment. Let's clarify. Hell is not really defined as hell as we know it today with regard to Christianity. The pit, the pit. Right.

[00:04:16] Yeah. So Barrow's going to find himself in the company of every kind of fallen greatness. Okay. So like when we talk about hell now we're like, well, we'll be there with some good company here. Yeah. So yeah. I'll be in good company. Right. Yeah. The prophet's declaration that

[00:04:32] Farrow shall see them and shall be comforted is appalling. However, as it reveals that the only comfort that can come to him is the profound sense of the operation of infinite justice in the

[00:04:44] punishment of all himself included who have been guilty of the abominations which have issued in the judgment of God. Okay. So it's not really a comfort. Yeah. I like it. But okay. Again, these people

[00:05:00] don't actually even believe in this God. So it doesn't really strike me as something that they are even fearing at all or give two shits about. Right. You know, like this is more of a

[00:05:12] brag to their own people, like these people are going to do this and they're going to die. And like it's the same sense of it's the same feeling I get from when someone on Twitter or something

[00:05:23] comes on was on one of my posts and they're like, you're gonna burn in hell and then it's like almost gleeful the way that they say it. Right? They're like, you are going to suffer eternally and

[00:05:35] I'm happy about it. Right. And it's like, okay, if I believed in that it might be a problem, but I don't. So that's the first part. Okay. So I don't care because it's not real. Yeah. The second part is,

[00:05:47] wait, you're excited about that. That's the part I never get. I'm like, you're a fucking Christian yourself proclaimed a Christian. Yeah. And you are gleefully accepting the fact that I will suffer

[00:06:00] for all eternity and you seem happy about it. Right. That is not, it feels like your religion might amiss to step in teaching you how to care about people. Yeah. I'm just, you know, maybe maybe they

[00:06:13] didn't quite get the whole message across to you. I don't know. You don't seem very like, ah, what people would say Christian like. Yeah. You know, it's kind of mean to laugh at people

[00:06:22] regardless of what they've done, but to laugh at them because they're going to suffer for eternity. According to you, right? If you think I had any interest in being a Christian before, you've certainly ruined anything by now. Right. The fact that you are this much of an asshole,

[00:06:39] it makes you think that your religion sucks. You don't speak well of your group over there. Right. Yeah. You're not representing well. Like, are you the representative that they sent to convince me?

[00:06:49] Bad. They said, bet you're the best that they could get, huh? Yeah. Are you God's chosen spokesperson that makes me think that your God is crap? To be fair, it usually happened. Not,

[00:07:00] well, not only. Sometimes they just throw it out right off the cuff, but it's, um, it usually happens after you've been trying to argue with them for a while and they're like, well, you're

[00:07:10] going to burden hell. And it's like, okay, when they're like, I can't come up with any more responses. So fucking win a die forever. Yeah. In pain. Okay. I mean whatever. Right. Like, and you're ugly too.

[00:07:23] And I fucked your mom. I mean, that's basically the epitome of what it means. So when we do that, you know, that's what they're saying. So yeah. Only in a quarter of a biblical sense or a religious sense.

[00:07:34] Yeah. Moku. Mm. All right. So our next question was that satisfaction factorally answered. Yeah. Conciliation. And so far as, you know, it is what it is, what it is. And it can make more sense. It does make more sense. Yeah. I was thinking of it as

[00:07:49] like literal interpretation. Right. But instead of sarcasm. It is more like the person yelling at me on Twitter. Yeah. So I mean that's, that's the quickest way I can describe it. I like God be trolling.

[00:07:59] Yeah. Right. Is he cool? Whatever. Whatever. Or the rewriters of as he killed whoever it was. But somebody in the Bible be trolling. Yeah. That's I need that on a shirt. Bible be trolling.

[00:08:11] All right. Our next question came from Izzy Gail chapter 34. Okay. I'm going to again read a couple of verses number 23 and 24. Okay. I will place over them one shepherd. My servant David.

[00:08:25] Yeah. And he will tend them. He will tend them and be their shepherd. The eye, the Lord will be their God. And my servant David will be prints among them either Lord of spoken. Yeah. And we were curious

[00:08:36] about whether he knew the David line had ended. We were also curious about like what the fuck does that actually mean? Because a lot of people are going to tie this to Jesus and there was lots

[00:08:46] of questions. Or is this a re-risen David? Right. Yeah. The zombie David version of whatever. So zombie David pre Jesus or just didn't know David was dead. Yeah. So I am very curious here. Yeah. So David King of

[00:08:59] Israel had been dead upwards of 400 years at the time that this thing was said. Can't be can't be that David? Yeah. And from that time till now, not now today but now then when it was written

[00:09:13] there was never a ruler of any kind either in the Jewish Church or state of the name of David. When we say David we're speaking of that. The David and the lie of David. Yeah. This then must be

[00:09:26] some typical person that they're referring to just any old David. Right? Right. Can't be a King. Most Christian apologists believe that this reference to David is really a reference to the Messiah,

[00:09:38] the Son of David fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Right. And that's what I was saying that Christians would say. But I find that very not in in line with what the text of the Old Testament is because we are

[00:09:52] literally discussing Babylon. Right? The the conquering happenings of Babylon and if you take Jeremiah and Azizia at their word, this is what we're discussing. Right? And Jeremiah at the very least

[00:10:05] says that we are going to be held captive for 70 years. No wonder you know, the Israel that you're going to be held captive for 70 years. And then they're going to return to their homeland. Right?

[00:10:13] Yeah. And in Azizia, hints at some of the same ideas doesn't give the 70 year deal. Right. But because he doesn't see that I think that's why it's allowed to be interpreted as the line of David and later.

[00:10:26] But we are still talking about Babylon and Babylon did not like did not hold this conquering set for for much longer than 70 years. Right. So it doesn't make sense to me that this would be referencing

[00:10:39] something that happens, you know, let's see it would be about 600 years in the future. Yeah. No. And even at that, we talked about this while we were talking about the this section in the Bible.

[00:10:50] And that's that even when Jesus is there in the New Testament from what we know, from what we know. We haven't read it yet. Right. That is not a return to greatness. It is just merely

[00:11:02] Jesus came down and then died for everyone's sins. Right. But they were conquered by the Romans at the time. They weren't in their own land running their own show. Right. They hadn't done any of

[00:11:12] that so the only thing it could really reference if we are discussing the Jesus of the New Testament would be the second coming as they say. Right. And what are the Jewish first coming,

[00:11:25] which hasn't happened yet because they don't believe in. Yes. So if you wish perspective it could be the first coming, right? Whatever. There Messiah as they see it. And I could see how that could be

[00:11:36] interpreted that way or the other way. But I still feel like this is a line of David. Like I feel like this is more in the moment because I don't know that we talked about we don't

[00:11:46] know if he knows what the line of David is even right now. That's something else that came up in my notes. He might not have known. Yeah. So he may just assume that the line of David is

[00:11:54] going to continue and then whoever the next king is going to be, that will be the line of David and that's going to continue the Israel, the Israel, whatever kingdom and all the good,

[00:12:06] all the good shit. There'll always be a remnant hanging on through the years and out of that will come David's whatever descendant. Yeah. Yeah. And that's how I, if I were to pick a version,

[00:12:19] that's the version I would say is probably most likely. I would say either that one or belief in a future Messiah that still today and 2024 has not come. Sure. Because they do believe that even today.

[00:12:33] They do. So they do. You know, I know. I know. I know. I just, I feel like everything like everything that we've read in these chapters though, in these books Jeremiah and Ezekiel,

[00:12:43] especially have been more centered around what is happening in the very near future as opposed to the very distant. I agree. I agree with you on that. So to go back to where it was,

[00:12:55] Christian apologists think that David is a reference to Jesus or whatever. Yeah. And they would say the same of many other passages which speak of David's future role over Israel. So basically, anytime the word David comes up, you're supposed to replace it with Jesus in a Christian mind.

[00:13:14] I think that's probably problematic. I mean, we have referenced the David line before and it definitely references things that were like prior to this. Yeah. It referenced things that we could

[00:13:26] kind of nail down as to what they probably were talking about. You know? And I feel like that might become a problematic. But anytime they're talking about future David coming back, that's Jesus.

[00:13:36] Okay. It's Jesus. It's Jesus. Did you know it's Jesus? You know, if God is so prophetic and telling these people exactly what's going to happen, you think he'd be able to know the dude's name.

[00:13:45] What are you going to name your son, dude? Not, not Son of David. It's going to have a name apparently. So it's going to be Jesus. There is nothing in these texts themselves that demand that

[00:13:56] it is the Messiah and not David. So there's that. Now in this particular passage, David is not even described as a king, but in a lesser office, Prince. Yeah. Well, and they've been using Prince to

[00:14:10] describe kings throughout. Yes. So yes. The idea again, according to Christian apologists is that this is when Jesus, the Messiah, is King over all the earth and David rules Israel as a Prince

[00:14:23] under him. Also like all of people are coming back. It's just like it's not just Jesus coming back. David's going to come back with them and maybe the middle brings along zombie David. Yeah.

[00:14:33] Yeah. Okay. Although Moses didn't make it in because he had to stop outside of the promise and so maybe he can't, maybe he can't come to the party. I don't know. Now here's something interesting. The word David means beloved in Hebrew. And so it had a prophetic meaning

[00:14:49] referring to the Messiah while the term David is used in this verse. It is typically understood as a symbolic reference to a descendant of David who will fulfill the role of a shepherd over God's

[00:15:02] people. Again, I feel like that's a very apologist take. Mm-hmm. Because they did not know this as they were writing the shit. Right. And I think there are many other ways to interpret this if you

[00:15:11] want to. Yes. So I agree. I don't like that take. I understand why that is is a take, but I don't like that takes. That take does not track and so I understand why they say it because

[00:15:25] their Christians and they have to, but it's stupid and ignorant. I think that's a Bible straight guys. Right. So I think you and I both agree that the most likely thing is that

[00:15:36] Zecchil did not know that the line of David was gone. I think that's the most likely. Yeah. And the second one would be that they use the word David in reference to the coming Messiah which has yet to come.

[00:15:49] Right. Jews today in 2024 still believe at some point is coming. Right. So yeah. And either of those I think are acceptable because that makes sense. Yeah. Both of them. Right. Not just in a stupid

[00:16:01] apologist way either. Like in reading the text, either of those makes sense with the text. Well, I'm going to say one more thing and that's that if we are going to pretend that the line of

[00:16:12] David continues through Jesus or the next Jewish Messiah, right? Mm-hmm. That would mean that all of the prophets that are speaking this way understand that there is still someone that is

[00:16:21] holding to the David line somewhere out there. Right. Right. So if Zecil understood that to be the case, then he would also maybe understand that the next king of Judah or Israel would end up being

[00:16:35] someone from the David line. Right. Right. Whoever that may be, but I don't think that he was referencing this as a far out type of an idea. No, I totally agree with you because their prophecies usually

[00:16:48] were within the next. Yeah. They were very close history. They're very close history is what the prophecies were usually referencing. Yeah. So all right. I'm done. Okay. Yeah. So our final question

[00:16:58] came from chapter 35 and so I'm going to read these two verses one and two. Sure. The word of the Lord came to me. Son of man. Yeah, me or human. Yeah. Fucking warm. Set your face against

[00:17:11] Mount Seer. Prophecy against it and we were like what's a Mount Seer? And why are they mentioning Seer? Mount Seer as opposed to Eidam. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That was a question I definitely had.

[00:17:22] Um, I didn't find a reason for them saying Eidam as opposed to Mount Seer. It's just a stylistic choice of the author, which you and I both in said indicates that there were multiple authors

[00:17:36] of this particular chapter if not the whole book. Right. So I didn't find anything on that. However, I did find a little bit just about Mount Seer itself. Okay. All right. So on the eastern

[00:17:48] side of the Jordan River Mount Seer was a center of the Eidamites, the descendants of Jacob's brother Issa and Eidam is symbolized here by its distinct of landmark Mount Seer. So that could be a reason

[00:18:03] why somebody would refer to it that way because Mount Seer was how some people referred to Eidam. Got it. Okay. That makes, that makes some sense. I, I think I can understand why somebody

[00:18:16] would refer to it that way. I can't understand why Zekil would refer to it both ways. So I again think that two different writers. Yes, at least two separate writers and they refer to Eidam and Mount Seer

[00:18:31] separately as the same thing but yeah you get what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. No, I got it. I got it. Mount Seer is the ancient and biblical name for a mountainous region stretching between the

[00:18:42] Dead Sea and the Gulf of Aukaba in the northwestern region of Eidam and the southeast of the kingdom of Judah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. It may also have marked the older historical limit of ancient Egypt and

[00:18:57] Canaan. Got it. So that whole area was either Seer or Mount Seer. Got it. Yeah. Mount Seer was named for Seer, the Horeite who's offspring the Horeites had previously inhabited the area according

[00:19:13] to the book of Genesis. So we have heard of Mount Seer before. Yeah, I definitely remember talking about the Horeites. I do not remember Mount Seer being mentioned though. I don't either but I mean that

[00:19:22] doesn't mean it wasn't there. I don't know. There was totally red for sure. Yeah. And I think my biggest issue with this whole thing, this whole bit is that we had talked about in Ezekiel already. We

[00:19:33] had talked about the Eidamites and in fact in and we just referenced them I think in chapter 32 when they were talking about the Eidamites we're going to be buried with the Pharaoh and all that right? So we

[00:19:45] know that the Eidamites there. So when we are saying Mount Seer, we have to do one of two things. We have to either accept the fact that somebody else wrote it or that this section in particular

[00:19:56] was on purpose being more poetic than another section of more symbolic than another section to reference something else with regard to his writing. But either way it is definitely outside of how it is normally referenced. Correct. With regard to the Eidamites. Yes, I agree. So I'm just going

[00:20:14] to go through a couple of other places where Mount Seer was mentioned. The children of E saw the Eidamites battled against the Horeites and destroyed them in the book of Deuteronomy. Okay.

[00:20:23] Okay. Mount Seer is specifically noted as the place where E saw made his home. Okay. And then in the book of numbers, the prophet Bailung predicting Israelite victories over the trans-Jordani nations at the end of their exodus from Egypt, stated Eidam Shabia possession. Sir also his

[00:20:43] enemy Shabia possession. Okay. So Bailung being of course, you know, that the one that had the talking donkey. Yes. Okay. Mount Seer is also given as the location where the remnants of the Amalachites that had escaped were annihilated by 500 Simonites according to first chronicles.

[00:21:03] Okay. Which I do not remember. I don't recall that either. And then in second chronicles, the inhabitants of Mount Seer, the Eidamites came along with the Amalites and Moabites against Jehozeva of Jehocheva of Judah. However, quote, the Lord said ambushments against them,

[00:21:22] causing their forces to annihilate one another. Got it. And then Mount Seer is referenced in the prophetic books, Isaiah and Ezekiel as a term for Eidam. Sure. So this is just the first time we've

[00:21:34] caught it. Well, it didn't like I do remember saying Seer at some point, but I didn't remember. Like I don't know that I put Eidam and Seer together, right? Like that wasn't a thing that

[00:21:47] you had before. I can tell you that it was a little over now. And if I did, it was only just in the moment when we talked about it the last time. So I'll probably forget this again honestly. Oh sure.

[00:21:55] But because it's not in the grand scheme of talking about what the Bible is, you know, the enemies of Israel and Judah are not really overly important to the overarching story line. Like we're more concerned about what God's direction for these people is. Yes.

[00:22:11] It is. And not so much the enemies. So like it doesn't. Right. Relidency is part of the problem of the way I don't remember some of these things. Exactly. Exactly. So there were a couple of

[00:22:21] controversies with regard to Mount Seer. Okay. First of all, is it's current day geography. Okay. Currently I found two different definitive statements as to where it's located today. And both did not present it as some people believe. Okay. Both references were like it is here.

[00:22:39] Got it. And they were factual and I was like, wait, am I crazy or are those two different things? And I had to check it make sure because I'm not familiar with the geography, right? But they were referencing two different things. Two different things. Okay. So here's

[00:22:51] the first sentence. Yeah. Okay. Currently this former territory of Edom is controlled by Jordan. Okay. Okay. And near the border with Saudi Arabia. Okay. The other sentence says it is the territory of Edom is located in Syria. Okay. I was like hold on, but our Syria and Jordan,

[00:23:15] those are separate, right? They are. They're separate. Right. Like I had to check that because my American ignorance, I'm not familiar with that area at all. And I was like, well maybe

[00:23:26] Syria is in Jordan or maybe Jordan's in Syria. I don't fucking know. Maybe one's a little place in the other. Like maybe one's a city and one's a larger territory. Right. Like I do not know

[00:23:36] the setup. So I had to check and they are like right next to each other but they are two separate areas. Got it. Okay. So it's in one of the other somewhere around Saudi Arabia. Got it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:47] Okay. Oh, that was the first controversy about Mount Seer. Here's another interesting take on it. There are some Christian quote unquote scholars who are trying to put forward the idea that Mount Seer is synonymous with Mount Sinai. Hmm. Okay. All right. And that wait Mount Sinai is

[00:24:15] the one where Moses climbed up right. Oh wow. Now you got me on the spot here. I don't know. What? Yeah. I don't know what mountain. Okay. Time to up right up. Because that feels wrong and I

[00:24:27] didn't write it down because I wasn't sure I was going to say it or not. Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get just so I'm doing a quick search as a sea. Mount Sinai is Mount Sinai. Okay. And Mount

[00:24:39] Sinai is also called Mount Horab, which we have covered in the past. Right. Yeah. Okay. But anyway, some people are saying that Mount Seer is the same thing as Mount Sinai and then others

[00:24:53] are like, no, no, no. Mount Seer is just one of the peaks of the range of Mount Sinai, the range. Okay. And then the rest are like the fuck are you talking about it's not even the same.

[00:25:07] Right. Yeah. Yeah. So there's like this whole like we can't even tell you what the fuck Mount Seer is much less where it's located. Yeah. So they were I mean, in the general search

[00:25:20] I was doing and they were saying that they were like there might be like a northern mountain that might have been referred to as Mount Seer at one point. But it's not as prominent as far as

[00:25:28] like what is referenced in with regard to this section of the Bible of the southern range, which is the the Seer Mountains, essentially. Well and then there's also the fact that these people

[00:25:39] lived on like flat grounds and what did they consider a mountain? That that's a good point. Yeah. It's been a really big fucking hill. I mean, I would think of a large hill as a small mountain.

[00:25:51] Sure. I would. But that may not even exist today because you know 2000 plus years. They might just fall the you know the Mount Everest fuck you, you know. Exactly exactly. I mean,

[00:26:06] if I came to that and we were trying to go through I'd be like, no, fuck you. That's be my reaction. Yep. Yep. Let's turn them back guys. Sorry. All right. You got any other questions or answers for us?

[00:26:17] That was my Q&A for today, not Saturday. Okay. Well, so that does it for this episode. We I think are going to still try to do maybe a Patreon today. I'm going to try to squeeze one out.

[00:26:29] So we got that still coming up later today, hopefully. And then I will get the weekly wrap up out. And then we will be back on Monday with a Ziki old chapter 36. All right. We'll see you then. Bye.