Jeremiah Chapters 41 - 45 Q&A: Atheist Bible Study

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, Husband here! And I'm wife. If you've been listening to us then you

[00:00:08] know we're all about reading the Bible and reacting to it on our first read

[00:00:11] through. Custwords, crying, laughing and more. We're passionate about creating a

[00:00:15] podcast that takes the sanctity out of the sacred text and simply stating it as

[00:00:19] we see it. But we can't do it without your help. We're asking for your support to

[00:00:23] help us keep this podcast going. There are two ways you can donate. Text, SACDIS,

[00:00:27] that's S-A-C-D-I-S to 53555 if you're in the U.S. with a one-time donation. Any amount helps. Or,

[00:00:36] if you'd rather start a sustaining membership, sign up on our Patreon page at patreon.com

[00:00:40] forward slash Sacrilegious Discourse. Membership levels start as low as $2 a month. We are

[00:00:45] amazed and grateful for our fans that support us now and you can become one too. With your support we

[00:00:51] can keep Sacrilegious Discourse alive and well for years to come. So please donate today. Text,

[00:00:56] SACDIS to 53555 if you're in the U.S. Or sign up for our Patreon page at patreon.com forward slash

[00:01:04] Sacrilegious Discourse. Welcome to Sacrilegious Discourse. I'm husband and I'm wife. Together we're

[00:01:20] reading the Bible for the very first time. We grew up without religion and wanted to know what

[00:01:24] all the fuss was about. Well, what do we learn so far? That God is a dick and apparently some people

[00:01:30] believe in talking donkeys. We're not trying to pass ourselves off as experts. Nope, we're just

[00:01:35] reading the Bible for the first time and giving our first take reaction. If you'd like to join us

[00:01:39] in this venture, you might consider starting at episode one. Otherwise jump in wherever you like.

[00:01:44] All right let's go read the Bible. Yeah, let's get to it.

[00:01:47] What's up?

[00:01:50] Husband! Wave! Guess what today is? Well, it is Saturday. Which means?

[00:01:56] Q and A Saturday and I'm really excited about it. Okay. Sorry. No, that's all right. You threw

[00:02:04] me off again. I know. I was a trip. I wanted to shout or sing so I kind of did boo.

[00:02:11] Got it. Got it. Got it. And what are we queuing in A and today? We are going over some baruch

[00:02:18] shit. Baruch shit, huh? Yeah, like these were some of the questions that we had. What happened to

[00:02:23] Jeremiah and Baruch? Are there any other legends stories or traditions about them? Did Baruch go on

[00:02:28] with the remnant in Egypt or did he go back to Babylon? Did they both just die and disappear into

[00:02:33] the analysis of history? How did Baruch put together Jeremiah's story? At what point did it become

[00:02:39] official O.T. material? Okay. We had all these questions. I mean, yeah. I didn't realize we had

[00:02:47] so many questions but we... I mean, yeah, I want to know all that. I was sitting there and I was like,

[00:02:50] I need to know these things. I answer most of them today. Okay. Are you ready to do this?

[00:02:56] I am so fucking ready to do this. Then let's... let's do it. Okay, okay.

[00:03:12] Rebag your premier destination for luxury resale. Elevate your style of their curated collection

[00:03:17] of bags, watches and fine jewelry. At Rebag, quality is our priority. Each piece meticulously

[00:03:22] vetted and verified by experts, ensuring your investment is nothing short of perfection.

[00:03:27] Buy and sell fine from the world's top brands including our meds, Chanel and Cartier.

[00:03:31] Access expertly crafted and hard to find pieces that redefine luxury. Your next investment

[00:03:36] awaits at Rebag. Get 10% off your first purchase with Code Rebag 10. That's 10% off the luxury you

[00:03:42] deserve. Don't miss out. Head to Rebag.com and enter Code Rebag 10 at checkout. That's REB-AG-10.

[00:03:49] Tired of ads intruding into your favorite comedy podcasts? Good news.

[00:03:53] Ad-free listening is available on Amazon Music for all the music plus top podcasts included

[00:03:59] with your prime membership. Dive into a world of laughs by downloading the Amazon Music app for free

[00:04:04] or go to amazon.com slash comedy ad free. That's amazon.com slash comedy ad free

[00:04:09] to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. Think of all the sleep hacks you've ever heard.

[00:04:15] You could spend years trying them all or you could instantly transform your sleep with

[00:04:20] Bolin Branch. They make this softest most breathable bedding you'll ever feel and it's all 20% off.

[00:04:27] That's their best sale of the entire season. Millions of sleepers love their

[00:04:32] buttery soft sheets, airy blankets, cloud-like duvets and so much more. And you can try all of them

[00:04:38] for 20% off with promo code buttery20. So hurry to bolin branch.com today. That's B-O-L-L and

[00:04:46] branch.com. See site for details.

[00:05:09] And now I can't hear his name without thinking of that fucking reference.

[00:05:14] Thanks for that. We're going to learn about him today. Yeah, no, I know. I know.

[00:05:18] Q&A. You'd like your last one of your last chances to get that out.

[00:05:21] That's true. I mean, he's had to do it. There's only so much of Jeremiah left.

[00:05:25] Yeah. And then especially Baruch maybe. Although I think Lamentations follows Jeremiah and I think

[00:05:34] Baruch wrote that one too or Jeremiah did or both of them did together. I don't know. There's some

[00:05:40] shit right there. We'll find out when we get there, right? Yeah. Yeah. All right. So listen to this.

[00:05:45] I'm listening. Okay. So remember when we had to go back in time, right? Because up through chapter 44

[00:05:53] was like this neat narrative and then they went away with the into Egypt. Yeah, they were

[00:06:01] like 20 years. Yeah. Yeah. And they were like just kidding. It never happened yet. Right. Okay. Yeah.

[00:06:08] So that's where we're going to start here. Okay. Okay. Both Baruch and Jeremiah witnessed the Babylonian

[00:06:14] siege of Jerusalem of eight. I'm sorry, 587 to 586 BCE. Okay. Okay. In the middle of the siege of

[00:06:25] Jerusalem, while in prison, Jeremiah purchased an estate in Anathoth. Remember that? Yes.

[00:06:31] On which the Babylonian armies had encamped as a symbol of faith in the eventual restoration

[00:06:36] of Jerusalem. Okay. And Baruch continued to reside with him at Miss Pa. Okay. Yep. So I'm just kind

[00:06:43] of like catching us up to give us a little background. Yeah. Yeah. So Baruch was carried with Jeremiah

[00:06:52] to Egypt where according to tradition, he soon died. Okay. Oh. So but there's other stories out there.

[00:07:00] Okay. Yeah. So two other traditions state that he later traveled or was taken by force to Babylon

[00:07:09] by Nebuchadnezzar after that King's conquest of Egypt. Okay. And wait, conquest of Egypt. I

[00:07:17] thought you attacked Egypt. It didn't go so well. Right. So that's okay. Conquest is probably the wrong

[00:07:23] word. Right. Yeah. Like on the outskirts of Egypt. Right. Right. I mean, he tried it was it was a

[00:07:31] battle. And he probably won a battle or two or something. He didn't he didn't conquest. No.

[00:07:37] Conquest is way too strong and adjective or verb there. Right. Or noun, whatever the fuck it is.

[00:07:43] Anyway, another rabbinic tradition suggests that Baruch returned to Babylon after he witnessed

[00:07:51] Jeremiah's death by stoning and buried his body. See, that's that's the one I was thinking probably

[00:07:57] happened. Right. Because because they didn't like Jeremiah at all. At all they stoned his ass

[00:08:04] and not in a good way. Yeah. So rabbinical literature describes Baruch as a faithful helper

[00:08:12] and a blood relative of Jeremiah, which I didn't know. I didn't either. I think there were like

[00:08:17] distant cousins, maybe or some shit. Okay. All right. So Baruch and Jeremiah being descendants of

[00:08:22] the proselyte Rahab. Do you remember Rahab? Rahab was a good and I do. Okay. So this must have served

[00:08:31] as a humiliating example to their contemporaries because they were like, you know, the people who

[00:08:40] are around them, right? Yeah. We're looking at them like how far you've fallen because y'all are

[00:08:46] talking shit. You're getting beat up in public. You're going to jail and you know, you're doing

[00:08:52] this weird wacky god stuff. Yeah. Your family must be so embarrassed. But still his book ended

[00:08:59] up in the Bible somehow. But they didn't know that at the time. Right. And remember during our last

[00:09:05] episode, we suggested that perhaps it was because Baruch was such a good salesman. Right. Which

[00:09:12] I tend to think maybe is the case. Okay. Yeah. So these guys belong to the few who harkened to

[00:09:21] the word of God, right? Yeah. You know, nobody else in their family, like we don't know them. They

[00:09:27] weren't like hardcore prophesies. I mean, profits doing the profits doing doing the prophecy. Yeah.

[00:09:34] Right. Yeah. So okay. One midrash, you know, that's the Jewish writings. Yeah. Okay. One midrash

[00:09:42] regards Baruch as synonymous with the Ethiopian, a bedmuleck, the guy who pulled Jeremiah out of the

[00:09:51] jail. Okay. Who rescued Jeremiah from the dungeon and states that he received his name, Baruch,

[00:09:58] which means blessed because of his piety. Recall a bedmuleck meant servant to the king. So there

[00:10:06] was like a question over whether that was his actual name or title. And even if it was his name,

[00:10:13] it was a nameless name. I call bullshit on that one. Okay. I mean, only because a bedmuleck was like

[00:10:21] right at the end, right before they got captured by Babylon. Like right before the city fell to

[00:10:25] Babylon. Right? So like that story about him was there. And Baruch definitely was in the story

[00:10:31] before that. Yes. I hear you and I don't disagree with you. I just am going to point out though

[00:10:38] that all this shit is out of order. Right. And it would have been possible that he was granted a name

[00:10:46] blessed to replace his previous position title of King Servan guy. Okay. All right. I'm just

[00:10:53] I'm just saying it is a possibility. Sure. Okay. Um, according to one story though because Baruch's

[00:11:01] piety might have prevented the destruction of the temple. God commanded Baruch to leave Jerusalem

[00:11:08] before the catastrophe. So as to remove Baruch's protective presence. Oh, yeah. Okay. According to

[00:11:16] this account was so important honestly. Well, he had so much piety. It was such a goody goody. I see.

[00:11:22] Okay. Even even better than Jeremiah, right? I didn't know that. Right. No, I mean, they didn't make

[00:11:27] that clear in the Bible. No, no. This is just again, this is another story of story. Yeah. According to

[00:11:33] this account, Baruch then saw from Abraham's oak at Hebron. The temple sat on fire by angels

[00:11:42] who previously had hidden the sacred vessels. I see. Mm-hmm. Right? So it was angels that burned

[00:11:50] down the temple. Sure. Okay. I don't know. Yeah. I'm just, you know, I'm gaffing stories. I feel like

[00:11:56] maybe it was if that's the story, I think he might have been on drugs. So sure. Just saying probably.

[00:12:00] So there's this group of rabbinic sages whose views are recorded in the Mishnah from approximately

[00:12:11] 10 to 220 current era. See? Okay. They are called the 10 name. Okay. Name 10. They are. All right.

[00:12:20] Okay. And they were very divided on the question of whether Baruch should be classified among

[00:12:26] the prophets. Oh, Baruch. Yeah. Okay. Because like was he a prophet? No. But he was very important

[00:12:34] and good. Yeah. And I mean, like, I know we're not at the New Testament yet, but like Mary gets

[00:12:42] classified with them and she wasn't doing any prophets. Right. You know, she didn't do prophet

[00:12:48] shit. Sure. She just merely carried the Christ child in her body. Right. But so I'm just saying

[00:12:54] like there are examples of people not being prophets who get prophet status. Got it. So why should he

[00:13:02] be different? So according to one of these guys, the 10 name, Baruch complained because the gift of

[00:13:09] prophecy had not been given to him. Remember we talked about that. Yeah. Yeah. And Baruch,

[00:13:14] therefore found consolation in the fact that when Israel was exiled to Babylon, there was no longer

[00:13:20] occasion for prophecy. Okay. So he's like, good, if I can't be a prophet, nobody can. That's

[00:13:28] like the people that are like, I had to pay for college and be in debt for thousands of years

[00:13:33] and millions of dollars. Everybody should everybody else has to as well. Right.

[00:13:38] Okay. So there's a different one of those 10 name guys. Okay. Those say G guys. And they,

[00:13:45] that guy as well as the Talmud, they do include Baruch among the prophets and state that he

[00:13:52] prophesied in the period following the destruction. Oh. So there is not agreement as to whether or

[00:14:01] not he's classified as a prophet. Got it. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. It was in Babylonia also

[00:14:08] that Ezra studied the Torah with Baruch. Oh. Yeah. Like I didn't realize that those tours overlapped.

[00:14:15] Yeah, I didn't either. Like this going back and forth in time is really confusing when you're

[00:14:20] trying to line up. Wait, you said somebody his contemporaries who were his contemporaries because

[00:14:27] I don't hold year number things in my brain. Right. So I'm like, oh, he was there with Ezra. Okay.

[00:14:34] Yeah. And they they was doing their study in together. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

[00:14:39] And he did not think of returning to Judea during his teacher's lifetime since he considered

[00:14:45] the study of the Torah more important than the rebuilding of the temple. And thus Baruch could not

[00:14:53] join the returning exiles by reason of his age. Okay. Yeah. So that was some Jewish legends.

[00:15:01] Okay. Got it. Some Christian legends, especially from Syria and Arabia. Oh my god,

[00:15:08] you're going to love this. Okay. Identify Baruch with zero aster aka zero thrustra. Okay.

[00:15:18] You know that guy's our a thrustra like there's that loss of the book thus fake zero thrustra.

[00:15:25] Okay. Oh, vaguely rings a bell. I thought that was the one that you made me read.

[00:15:31] No. Oh, okay. Why anyway? You made me read some philosophy book and the the

[00:15:38] the news name is it? Oh, sadartha. Never mind. Oh shit. Okay. Like way. Yeah. Totally different.

[00:15:46] Yeah. Okay. Sorry. I had my letters confused. Yeah. Like a Z and S they kind of make similar sounds.

[00:15:53] And so like that's how I store names sometimes. Yeah. Okay. So yeah. I fucked that up.

[00:15:59] But anyway, so Baruch was sometimes identified with zero thrustra a religious reformer and the

[00:16:08] spiritual founder of zero astrianism. Okay. So let's talk about that a little bit. Sure.

[00:16:14] Because what the fuck is that about? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In about 1000 BCE, he founded the first

[00:16:22] documented monotheistic religion in the world. Oh. And also had an impact on Plato,

[00:16:29] Pythagoras and the Abrahamic religions, including Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Interesting.

[00:16:37] Yeah. I think that's my that maybe is where I've heard this before like as a precursor to

[00:16:43] you know, God essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Zero astrians believe that he was a prophet who

[00:16:50] transmitted God's messages and founded a religious movement that challenged the existing

[00:16:56] traditions of ancient Iranian religion. Okay. Okay. So it's it's a common belief, but only in one

[00:17:06] small area. Sure. So like if you're in that circle is super common. You go out of that circle

[00:17:13] and not so much right. Right. Right. But still. Yeah. These Christian legends give much information

[00:17:18] concerning Baruch. Okay. Okay. So listen to this. How to remind me again, how does Baruch relate

[00:17:24] to the zero whatever he might be that guy? Oh. Okay. Okay. Yeah. They're saying they're saying

[00:17:31] this was founded 1000 years BC. How does that even come close to Baruch? Okay. What the fuck do I know?

[00:17:39] All right. All right. I'm just only what the story says. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So angry because the gift

[00:17:44] of prophecy had been denied him. I mean, we talk about that over and over and over again. Yeah. He

[00:17:49] was so salty. Yep. And on account of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, he left Israel to

[00:17:56] found the religion of zero aster. Okay. Okay. The prophecy of the virgin birth of Jesus and

[00:18:03] the story of the adoration of the Magi is also ascribed to Baruch Zoroaster. Really? I mean,

[00:18:13] I know that those stories predated Christianity. Yeah. So it's not hard to believe that somebody

[00:18:18] was out there. Yeah. Singing that song. It's interesting that maybe this guy is the original

[00:18:24] E. Is that OG? Yeah. That's funny. Yeah. It is difficult to explain the origin of this curious

[00:18:31] identification of a prophet with a magician such as Zoroaster was held to be. Okay. Among the Jews,

[00:18:38] Christians and Arabs. Like how did that happen? Yeah. Nobody knows. Right. Okay. So one thought is

[00:18:45] that in Arabic, the name of the prophet Jeremiah is almost identical with that of the city of

[00:18:53] Yermaya where it is said Zoroaster lived. Okay. So I don't I'm like, I think you're stretching but okay.

[00:19:02] Right. Right. Right. Right. In some stories, Zoroaster was believed to be a descendant of ham.

[00:19:09] Really? Yeah. Interesting. Right. Yeah. And according to Genesis chapter 10,

[00:19:16] Kush, the Ethiopian is a son of ham. According to this tale, the Persians believed that Zoroaster

[00:19:24] had been taken into heaven in a chariot. And according to the Jewish legend, the above mentioned

[00:19:31] Ethiopian was transported alive into paradise and occurrence that like the translation of Elijah

[00:19:39] yeah must have taken place by means of a vehiculum. A vehiculum? Which I had to look that up. It just

[00:19:46] is some physical transportation. That's where the word vehicle comes from. Okay. So that's why

[00:19:52] like there was was it Samuel? No. Who was Elijah? Oh, it was a light. Okay. Yeah. He went to have

[00:19:58] it in the chariot. Yeah. They call that translation. God. He was translated into. But there has to be

[00:20:04] a vehicle essential to get them there somehow. Yes. So that's why they're in a chariot. Exactly.

[00:20:10] All right. The Catholic church considers Baruch a saint. Wow. And his official feast days are

[00:20:18] September 28th and November 15th. Got it. And that is a whole different bag of worms. We're

[00:20:26] going to put a pin in that. Yeah. But we mentioned way back like a couple of years ago that we wanted

[00:20:32] to do maybe an episode on like saints, saint hood, saint feast days. Like I feel like maybe like

[00:20:39] when we're done with the Bible, we should like go you know ham on the saints and stuff like that.

[00:20:48] Because like that's something that I've always been curious about. Same. And I would like to know more

[00:20:52] about them. So like I feel like at some point we got to do a series on you know Catholic saints.

[00:20:58] Yeah. Yeah. The big ins. Yeah. Well apparently the big ones I'm interested in small ones

[00:21:03] even because sometimes you get some really weird interesting stories out of some of the stuff,

[00:21:08] you know? It's true. Apparently Baruch is one of them. Okay. Yeah. So I still have more story to go.

[00:21:14] Okay. Yeah. So the location of the tomb of Baruch is unknown. Legends place it a mile away from

[00:21:22] a Zekios tomb near the town of Meshad Ali. However, there is no record of it actually existing.

[00:21:30] Okay. Okay. Rebenic sources reported that a strange plant, the leaves of which are sprinkled with

[00:21:37] gold dust grows on the site of his grave. Wow. Yeah. And other legends don't know where it is but

[00:21:44] we know that there's a strange plant with gold on it. Yeah. That's okay. All right. Yeah.

[00:21:50] Other legends suggest that the tomb is said to have been miraculous as well. Oh, damn it. He's like

[00:21:57] Jesus, huh? Yeah. It was supposedly a place for Jewish pilgrimage. Really? Interesting. Doesn't

[00:22:05] that sound fun? Let's go on a trip. This guy's kind of a big deal maybe sort of sort of he's a big

[00:22:11] deal and that his name is like sprinkled through various legends. Yeah. So it's like he almost made

[00:22:18] it. He was almost famous, right? Yeah. He's like the guy who was like he wrote a really good blog

[00:22:26] and if he had kept at it, like everybody made it someday because everybody knew about his blog but

[00:22:34] like nobody knew about his blog except for other bloggers. Right. Right. Yeah. So he was big in

[00:22:41] his circle. Sure. Yeah. So okay. Anyway, there is actually a tomb within a mosque in Al-Khul,

[00:22:50] Kifil, a town in southeastern Iraq on the Euphrates River that is dedicated to Baruch. Really?

[00:22:59] Yeah. And corresponding with the earlier legend, it is located near to the supposed tomb of Ezekiel

[00:23:05] which is also in the same building. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Huh. So okay, we have more.

[00:23:12] Okay. I was just like give me more. Give me more. Okay. So the book of Baruch is a Deuterro canonical book

[00:23:22] of the Bible. Wait, there's a book of Baruch. There's a book of fucking Baruch. You gotta be kidding.

[00:23:27] There's eight fucking books of Baruch. What? Right. Yeah. Like hello, I'm sorry. What? But they're

[00:23:35] they're considered Deuterro canonical meaning whoever wrote you know Deuterronomy on forward. Yeah.

[00:23:42] Like it belongs to that canon. Okay. Okay. And it's used in many, I'm sorry, Christian traditions

[00:23:51] such as Catholic and Orthodox churches. Huh. So the first and the second one particularly like,

[00:23:57] yeah, there's the first and second books of Baruch. What? Really? Yeah. What? Didn't you know that? No.

[00:24:04] Me neither. Right. Like what's a fucking Baruch? I'll tell you. Yeah. He's a thing. He's a guy.

[00:24:10] Right. Yeah. He's taking on a lot more importance than I thought he deserved or had.

[00:24:15] He's got mad swag. Apparently he's got Riz. In Judaism and Protestant Christianity, it is

[00:24:23] considered not to be part of the canon. Okay. Right. Yeah. So we're like get that shit out of you. That's

[00:24:30] like we're like we're like we're like we're gonna be right. Yeah. And the Protestant

[00:24:35] Bibles categorize it as a part of the biblical apocrypha. Okay. You know, they're like that's not

[00:24:40] real. It doesn't get stapled in with these that are also not real, but we like that whole thing

[00:24:46] just really just blows me away. So sort of like I don't know how is what ended up in the Bible

[00:24:53] more real and more like God given or what the fuck ever than whatever Baruch said which backed

[00:25:00] up Jeremiah? I think we reached a certain point in Bible history, like the history of the Bible,

[00:25:07] where these certain religions had their set pieces that they were reading. They're like this is

[00:25:13] all there is. Well, we know that that happened with the printing press. Right. Right. Once they

[00:25:17] became common, it's like oh, this is solid now is set in stone. Yeah. Yeah. And I even made

[00:25:22] the comment that it's funny. Like when things actually were set in stone back in the day. Right.

[00:25:28] They were less they could yeah, they could change it willing nilly anytime, but it's on paper

[00:25:35] and ink and we can type some shit up whatever, but no it is set in stone. Sure. Like that I just find

[00:25:41] that ironic yeah. Okay. So the book of Baruch is named after Baruch Ben Nareya, the prophet Jeremiah's

[00:25:49] scribe. Okay, just to remind you who we're talking about. Sure. Who has been presumed to be the author

[00:25:57] of the whole work? Okay. Okay. The book is a reflection of a late Jewish writer on the circumstances

[00:26:04] of Jewish exiles from Babylon with meditations on the theology and history of Israel, discussions

[00:26:11] of wisdom and a direct address to residents of Jerusalem and their diaspora diaspora diaspora.

[00:26:20] That's what I mean. Yeah. It's one of those words that I know it from reading and I've that's

[00:26:25] the first time I ever said it out loud. You know, like rest type. What? Residine. Yeah. In fifth grade,

[00:26:33] I had never said that word out loud. Yeah. I knew it. I knew what it was. I knew what it meant. Right.

[00:26:38] And I said rest type and oh my god, the class. Oh, they were so they were mean. They laughed at me.

[00:26:45] Right. They were all going to laugh at me and they did. Yeah. And that's not fair because I'm a

[00:26:50] solid reader. I know so many. I know all the best words. You know, but if you don't hear them

[00:26:59] pronounced, you don't know. That's true. Okay. So don't just say your mom didn't use a lot of

[00:27:03] recipes when you're growing up. I mean, it's okay. My brain also has this thing where it doesn't

[00:27:10] connect things like she probably said recipe 100,000 times, but I never connected her verbal use

[00:27:17] of the word to the written down. Yeah. Yeah. So no. Okay. All right. That's why I'm such a fan

[00:27:25] of audio books and podcasts because I'm able to hear how words and terms and phrases are actually

[00:27:33] supposed to be used. Right. Yeah. Okay. That's way off topic. So some scholars propose that the book

[00:27:40] of Baruch was written during or shortly after the period of the Macabees. Okay. The fucker,

[00:27:46] the Macabees, right? Was yeah. Let's talk about the Macabees a little bit here. Sure. Okay. So the

[00:27:51] Macabees were a group of Jewish rebel warriors who took control of Judea, which at the time was

[00:27:59] part of the Salay. Salay is said empire. Okay. They founded the Hasmonian dynasty, which ruled from

[00:28:10] 167 to 37 BCE. So the Macabees happened like right after the Babylonian exile. Wait. Wait. Wait.

[00:28:20] You said 167 to 37 BCE. The Babylonian exile happened in 587 BCE. I thought that was three something. No.

[00:28:30] No, but a lot of this stuff was happening in 300 something. Okay. But Baruch wouldn't have been

[00:28:35] anywhere near a lot of it. No, no, but we're talking now about the Macabees. Okay. And so

[00:28:43] the Macabees founded this dynasty. Okay. Yeah. And they reasserted the Jewish religion,

[00:28:48] expanded the boundaries of Judea by conquest and reduced the influence of Hellenism and Hellenistic

[00:28:55] Judaism. And I don't know if you're aware, but Hellenism is Greek influence. Right. No. Yeah.

[00:29:02] You I'm sure you knew that, but there may be somebody out there who did it. Yeah. So that's what

[00:29:06] Helen means. Right. And the one that's thick stuff is Greek stuff. Okay. So the Macabees story

[00:29:12] is preserved in the books of the first and second Macabees. Okay. Which describe in detail

[00:29:19] the re-dedication of the temple in Jerusalem and the lighting of the menorah. Okay. So it's odd

[00:29:26] that it's not in our Bible because it's pretty fucking important, which I thought it was because I

[00:29:33] had been looking at a Catholic. I was like, I didn't think I would have been alive on it. I didn't

[00:29:38] want to argue with you. No, I would have been alive on it because I had seen it in a separate Bible

[00:29:43] that I reference sometimes, but it's got more Jewish and some Catholic stuff in it. So the

[00:29:50] Macabees are all up in that. Yeah. So okay. So these books were not part of the Tanakh,

[00:29:58] the Hebrew Bible, which came from the Jewish canon. However, they were part of the Septuagint

[00:30:04] Greek stuff, which is funny because like the Macabees were trying to get rid of Greek stuff. Right.

[00:30:11] You know? Right. So it's interesting that but the Septuagint was written by that Greek Pharaoh,

[00:30:18] which that would have been Egypt not necessarily Greek. So the influence would have been different

[00:30:23] influences. That's true. That's true. Both books are included in the Old Testament used by the

[00:30:29] Catholic and Orthodox churches since those churches consider the books dutero canonical. So they

[00:30:36] count. Yeah. Okay. They are not included in the Old Testament books in most Protestant

[00:30:43] Bibles, since most Protestants consider the books apocryphal. Yeah. There are eight various books

[00:30:51] of the Macabees. So not Baruch, I'm sorry. I had Baruch mixed up with the Macabees. Okay.

[00:30:57] So there's only the one book of Baruch. I'm a little confused right now. Remember before when

[00:31:01] I said there was eight books. Yeah. Yeah. There's only one. But like Macabees were jumping ahead

[00:31:06] hundreds of years ago, right? Yeah. But I don't know why we're just talking about the Macabees. Before

[00:31:11] we were saying that Baruch wrote eight books and now you're saying it's the Macabees that we're

[00:31:17] written. Who knows? It's all just so confusing and interesting. Okay. So there are eight various

[00:31:24] books of Macabees, some written in Hebrew, others in Greek. Okay. The books cover a wide array

[00:31:31] of genres such as history, philosophy, and praise of reason, and poetry, and speeches. Okay. I have

[00:31:40] to stop you here because I'm really confused as to what is going on. Okay. Like we were talking about

[00:31:46] Baruch and that we jumped to something completely different. It feels like. Okay. So I have no idea how

[00:31:51] we got here. Okay. So let me go back up where I first mentioned the Macabees. Okay. So some scholars

[00:32:00] propose that the book of Baruch was written during or shortly after the period of the Macabees.

[00:32:08] So there are books of Baruch? No. Okay. Some scholars propose that the book of Baruch,

[00:32:17] uh-huh, which is, you know, not canon, right? That it was written during or shortly after the period

[00:32:24] of the Macabees. Right. But that says there's a book of Baruch. I'm really I'm struggling here. I'm

[00:32:31] sorry. Okay. So this probably happened after Baruch died. Okay. So Baruch, he's all sad because his

[00:32:40] buddy Jeremiah just got stoned and so he takes Jeremiah's body back to Babylon and bury them and they

[00:32:46] disappear into history. Yeah. Okay. Then later on the Macabees happen. Sure. Okay. And then they

[00:32:53] write this book of Baruch. Okay. So Baruch didn't write any of this shit. Probably not. It was said

[00:32:58] differently earlier. So like I'm just trying to cover this part. Oh my gosh. There you are

[00:33:04] really confusing me here. Okay. He did not write the Macabees shit. Okay. I understand that. But

[00:33:11] we're talking about the book of Baruch right now. You just told me there's not a book of Baruch.

[00:33:16] There is a book of Baruch. Earlier, you told me he wrote it because there are some people who believe

[00:33:22] he wrote it. I'm telling you all the different stories. My brain's not working currently apparently.

[00:33:29] I don't know what's going on. Okay. Listen. Okay. So Baruch is going around writing down Jeremiah's words.

[00:33:36] Yeah. Right? And then they get kidnapped into Egypt. Sure. And then Jeremiah gets stoned, right?

[00:33:41] And then Baruch probably takes Jeremiah's body back to Babylon, right? Okay. Baruch may or may not have

[00:33:48] written a book. If he did, he wrote a book and it's called the Book of Baruch. Okay. Yeah. The end,

[00:33:55] right? Got it. Okay. But he may not have written it. Okay. And then he and Jeremiah, they're in

[00:34:01] Babylon, they disappear into history. And then a few hundred years later, the Macabee period comes

[00:34:06] around and some of them guys write the book of Baruch. Okay. Okay. Okay. And the reason that we're

[00:34:15] talking about the Macabees is because what the fuck is a Macabee? And why are they writing a book

[00:34:20] of Baruch? Right. Right. Okay. So that's where, you know, there's eight different ones of them and

[00:34:27] they were like trying to get rid of Hellenism at the same time that, you know, they're like excited

[00:34:35] about Greek stuff like Greek philosophy and Greek logic and reason and stuff. So it's just they're

[00:34:44] a really weird group. Okay. Don't really understand the Macabee people. Sure. Okay. So these books are not,

[00:34:51] the Macabee books, there's eight of them. They are not part of the Tanakh, the Hebrew Bible. Right.

[00:34:58] Which came from the Jewish canon. However, they were part of the Septoagent, the Greek translation.

[00:35:04] Right. Right. Okay. Both books are included in the Old Testament. Macabees one and two for the Catholics

[00:35:12] and for the yeah. Yeah. And for the Orthodox churches. Right. Right. Okay. But they're not included in

[00:35:19] the Old Testament books and most Protestant Bibles because they're apocryphal. Right. Okay. Now we're caught up

[00:35:25] to where so may I read? Sure. Okay. My notes. Okay. There are eight various books of the Macabees.

[00:35:34] Okay. Okay. Some were written in Hebrew and others were written in Greek. All right. The books cover a

[00:35:40] wide array of genres such as do you remember? Because I already said this part. Okay. History, philosophy

[00:35:48] in the praise of reason, poetry and speeches. Got it. Okay. Okay. So now we're going

[00:35:56] we're leaving the Macabees and we're talking about the book of Baruch. Okay. Okay. Whoever wrote it. Got

[00:36:03] it. Okay. It is sometimes referred to as first Baruch to distinguish it from second Baruch, third

[00:36:11] Baruch and fourth Baruch. Okay. Okay. You got me really fucked up here because like I asked you

[00:36:22] if there was a book of Baruch here, I guess there's eight books of Baruch and then there was like

[00:36:25] a book of Baruch. Because I got confused that I got the eight number from the Macabees. Okay.

[00:36:32] Eight Macabee books. There's four Baruch books. Okay. But not just one, there's four. Yeah. And

[00:36:38] possibly Baruch wrote all four but possibly he didn't. I'm going to guess he didn't. Okay. That's my

[00:36:45] guess. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So anyway, the earliest known manuscripts of these Baruch books were written

[00:36:53] in Greek. Okay. But although they are not in the Hebrew Bible, the book of Baruch is found in

[00:37:00] the Septoagent as well as in the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible. Okay. Ethiopia just keeps coming up

[00:37:07] in this. They really do. Yeah. It's so interesting to me. Okay. In 80 book Protestant Bibles,

[00:37:13] like the one that we're reading. And what in 80? 80 book. Like there's 80 books. Okay. Oh.

[00:37:21] In the Bible. Got it. Yeah. The book of Baruch is a part of the biblical apocrypha. Apocrypha means

[00:37:29] no, no. Got it. Okay. Yeah. It's a no no. Right. Not good. Yeah. Okay. Jerome, you know who Jerome is, right?

[00:37:38] He's yeah, we talked about him. Saint Jerome and he's the one who translated. Did he do the

[00:37:45] the Septoagent? No, he did the Latin, the Volgate. I think he did the Volgate. Okay. I don't remember

[00:37:51] what you did but I think he did the Volgate. Okay. Despite his yeah see I was right. Okay. Despite his

[00:37:57] misgivings about the Deuteron canonical books, he included Baruch into his Volgate, the Latin version.

[00:38:07] And in the Volgate it is grouped with the books of the prophets alongside Jeremiah and Lamentations.

[00:38:13] So it's just like right there. Yeah. Okay. All right. Just dropped it in. Got it. Yeah. In the Volgate,

[00:38:19] the King James Bible, apocrypha and many other versions. The letter of Jeremiah. What? What's

[00:38:27] a letter of Jeremiah? I don't know. Is appended to the book of Baruch as a sixth chapter. Okay.

[00:38:34] In the Septoagent and Orthodox Bibles, chapter six is usually counted as a separate book called

[00:38:41] the letter or a pistle of Jeremiah. Got it. What the fuck? I'm okay. Let's read about that a little bit.

[00:38:47] All right. Okay. What is a letter of Jeremiah? What is it? It is also known as the epistle of Jeremiah,

[00:38:53] which you know that makes sense because that is the same word. Right. It is a Deuteron canonical book

[00:39:00] of the Old Testament and this letter is attributed to Jeremiah and it's addressed to the Jews who were

[00:39:07] about to be carried away as captives to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar. Okay. Yeah. So it's like right during

[00:39:15] that thing that was happening. Yeah. Okay. It is included in Roman Catholic Bibles as the final

[00:39:21] chapter of Ddu-Ddu-Ddu, the book of Baruch. Okay. Yeah. It's considered Baruch six. Chapter six. Okay.

[00:39:31] It is also included in Orthodox Bibles but as a separate book. So it's not listed as Baruch

[00:39:38] chapter six. It's listed as its own separate book, the letter of Jeremiah. Yeah. So the biblical book

[00:39:46] of Jeremiah does contain the words of a letter sent by you know the book of Jeremiah is what we're

[00:39:52] reading right now. Yeah. It does contain the words of a letter sent by Jeremiah from Jerusalem

[00:39:58] to the captives in Babylon. That was in Jeremiah chapter 29. They kind of alluded to some

[00:40:03] communication like that in Jeremiah. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. The letter of Jeremiah portrays it so

[00:40:09] as a similar piece of correspondence. Got it. So this would... This is just supplemental,

[00:40:13] essentially. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Right. Most contemporary scholars agree that the author was not

[00:40:19] Jeremiah though. Oh. Because of course. Right. The author may have been a Hellenistic Jew who lived

[00:40:27] in Alexandria but it is difficult to say with certainty. And I love a note that can say,

[00:40:33] hmm. Right. The earliest manuscripts containing the epistle of Jeremiah are all in Greek. Okay.

[00:40:40] Okay. In recent years though, the tide of opinion has shifted and now the consensus is that the

[00:40:48] letter in quotes was likely originally composed even though the earliest one that we have is in Greek.

[00:40:56] It was probably originally composed in Hebrew or Arabic. Is that a polygous saying that or is that

[00:41:03] like actual like scholars saying that? Scholars saying that. That's scholars saying that. Okay. Yeah.

[00:41:08] All right. Scholars are... They're dating it based on words that appear like for instance,

[00:41:16] there was one place where Jeremiah referred to in the letter he referred to 70 years instead of

[00:41:27] seven generations. Okay. And he would have said 70 years. Okay. Because I forget how they came

[00:41:34] to that conclusion but there was all this research done into his writing and apparently he tried to

[00:41:40] shy away from saying seven generations because that thought like struck his heart or whatever.

[00:41:45] Like he fucking hated it. Got it. So the fact that just little things like that, like just phrasing

[00:41:52] and translations of words that he used they're like, I don't know about this. I don't think this

[00:41:59] was originally in Greek. Right. I think what we have is a copy. Okay. Yeah. A translated copy. Right.

[00:42:06] Okay. So the letter itself is actually a rant against idols and idolatry which that tracks,

[00:42:14] right? The work was written with a very serious effort to instruct the Jews not to worship the gods

[00:42:21] of the Babylonians but to worship only the Lord. Right. Okay. I mean that tracks so totally like he

[00:42:28] could have written it even if he didn't might as well of right? Like I would totally believe you

[00:42:33] said he wrote it. Right. So after his rant, he goes on this diatribe. After that he does this satire

[00:42:41] where he's like talking about the idols and he's like blah, they're so stupid or whatever. Yeah.

[00:42:47] And then he like brings it back. Okay. Okay. And so the author warned the Hebrew exiles that during

[00:42:54] their exile, they would see the worship paid to idols and the author begged the people not to

[00:43:00] participate because the idols were created by men without the powers of speech, hearing or self

[00:43:06] preservation. Okay. Okay. So that was a lot of fucking information didn't answer all of our

[00:43:16] questions but it answered a lot of them created some new ones for me. Yes. I'm sorry. I feel like

[00:43:22] I contributed to you not following but I also am going to go out on a lemon say but you were not

[00:43:28] following. All right. It made me some of it was me but some of it was you. Okay. All right. So

[00:43:34] the question that we originally had where what happened to Jeremiah and Baruch which we told some

[00:43:40] stories, right? Right. Right. Are there other legends stories or traditions about them? Yes. Yes

[00:43:45] there are. Right. And we discussed them. Did Baruch go on with the remnant in Egypt? Yes. But then

[00:43:52] got it right? Yeah. Or did he go back to Babylon? No and then yes. Okay. Yeah. And how did Baruch put

[00:44:01] together Jeremiah's story? Nobody knows. Right. Any more than we know any of the other ones.

[00:44:07] Yeah. And at what point did it become official OT material? That is probably going to be like one

[00:44:13] of those counsel of Nicae things where you know those guys at their big conference table and that

[00:44:19] will be a special for another day. Sure. Because I don't know a lot about that. Right. Okay. All right. So

[00:44:26] that was our Q&A for today? That was our A and Q. Answering questions. Yeah. All right. So

[00:44:35] that'll do us for today I guess. And then let's see we're going to be back tomorrow with our

[00:44:43] Sacrilege's book club. Right. And then I will get the weekly wrap up out and then we'll be back on

[00:44:49] Monday with Jeremiah chapter 46. And I just want to add real quick. Yeah. You guys you should really

[00:44:57] come to the book club tomorrow and listen because it actually covers a lot of the time period that

[00:45:05] we're in and relates. Okay. Like I was pretty excited about it. So I think you'll like it. Okay.

[00:45:13] Sounds good. We'll see you guys then. Bye.

[00:45:22] Hey wife, I guess that's the end. But husband, that's just sad. It doesn't have to be. We are on

[00:45:27] lots of social media platforms like Twitter or handle there is sacrilege's underscore D for these nuts.

[00:45:33] Oh my god. Stop doing that. Anyway, we're also on Facebook, Instagram and Pinterest. There's a link

[00:45:40] to all of our social media sites at our website. We have a website. Yeah. It's sacrilege's discourse.com

[00:45:45] where you can also find a link to our merch shop. We have a merch shop. Yep. We have podcast

[00:45:50] theme clothing, mugs, notebooks and more as well as an atheist in science themed products. Wow. Our

[00:45:55] fans should really go check that out right now. Definitely they can get in touch with us by sending

[00:45:59] the email to sacrilege's discourse at gmail.com. But before they do that, we could really use some

[00:46:04] help. Oh yeah. With what? Well, it's not free running the podcast and we need some financial support

[00:46:10] in order to get better equipment which will free up time so we can concentrate on our podcast

[00:46:14] and our fans. Okay. So what should they do? Head over to patreon.com forward slash sacrilege's

[00:46:19] discourse and sign up as a contributor on our podcast supporters there receive additional biweekly

[00:46:24] episodes that we record just for our patreon numbers for as little as $2 a month. Also,

[00:46:29] we'd really appreciate it if you would like and subscribe on whatever platform you're using.

[00:46:34] And Apple podcast reviews help us out tremendously. Like and subscribe. Leave an Apple review.

[00:46:39] Join us on Twitter. Support us on Patreon. That's a lot of instructions. Don't forget to say thanks.

[00:46:44] Thanks. K. Bye.

[00:46:54] To upgrade your style game without blowing your budget, check out quince. They've got all the good

[00:46:59] stuff shirts and polo's active wear and fine leather goods all at 50 to 80% less than other high-end

[00:47:06] brands in the best part. They're all about safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing.

[00:47:11] Get that luxury vibe without the luxury price tag. Hit up quince.com slash upgrade for free shipping

[00:47:18] and 365 day returns on your next order. That's quince.com slash upgrade.

[00:47:48] Even when we're on a budget, we still deserve nice things. Quince is a place of scoop-ups

[00:47:59] studying high-end goods for 50 to 80% less in similar brands. They have buttery soft cashmere

[00:48:05] sweater starting at $50 luxurious Italian leather bags and so much more. Plus, quince only works with

[00:48:12] factories that you save ethical and responsible manufacturing. Get the high-end goods you'll love

[00:48:16] without the high-price tag with quince. Go to quince.com slash style for free shipping and 365 day

[00:48:23] returns.